Who is the second best QB in the NFL currently?

[Snake]

But, Burrow is arrogant and white!

[Buc2]

How many fucking tiers are there? Sheesh. This has become a stupid argument that 99% of no longer give 2 shits about.

[Navybuc]

Lol so just because he’s up for MVP he’s as good as Mahomes, Allen and Burrow? Okay pal. Like I said, you’re on an island believing that one.

Again, what has Burrow accomplished that puts him in an entirely different tier than Hurts?

For starters, Burrow has gone to two straight AFC Championship games playing with a MUCH worse OL than Hurts has. The Eagles OL is the best in football. If you put Hurts in Cincinnati, they’re not going to the AFC Championship. Heck he may be sitting next to his old teammate Tua hurt and watching games from home.

Hurts has been great this year. But it’s one year of great football. If he can repeat this again next year, then he has an argument that he’s up there with Burrow and Allen. But he was just okay last year…an 87.2 rating. 16 TDs vs 9 INts isn’t anything special. So he’s made great strides this year. He has to do it again, though, to show he belongs.

We’ve seen lots of qbs have have one great year and then disappear. Does that one great year mean they belong in the top 1 or two tiers, too? You have to maintain it for at least a couple years before people put you among the best. He’s getting MVP recognition for this year…not last. Allen has been getting MVP consideration I think 3 years on a row if I’m not mistaken.

Again, I like Hurts…but we need to see him keep this up.

[Digital_Damage]

Bootz still letting his racism show.

Burrow

42 1044 1530 68.2 11,774 7.7 82 31 82 124 100.4


Hurts

45 648 1040 62.3 7,906 7.6 44 19 91 77 92.2


Math is hard for him.

[Navybuc]

Hurts last year also looked horrible against Tampa Bay in that playoff game. So bad the Eagles had talk in the off-season about whether they even wanted to stick with Hurts. So let’s not pretend like his 2021 season was anything great. He has to prove
Next year this year was no fluke.

[Digital_Damage]

Hurts last year also looked horrible against Tampa Bay in that playoff game. So bad the Eagles had talk in the off-season about whether they even wanted to stick with Hurts. So let’s not pretend like his 2021 season was anything great. He has to prove
Next year this year was no fluke.

Hurts had two shitty seasons and one just above average season.

Bootz still tries to tell us Jackson is a great quarterback because he won MVP forever ago... its comical.

[Doctor]

It's still too early to objectively make a call on Hurts but it's also the exact moment where people can say they "see it now". Which may be the case. But still have to wait and see.

Right now Burrow and Allen have been consistently playing at their levels for many games and multiple seasons. Lamar even has a claim before Hurts. And we're only not saying names like Rodgers and Brady because they fell off from their MVP seasons, but obviously are still thought of very highly. No reason Rodgers can't be the #1 QB next year with Wilson, Moore, Davis, Hall, and that defense.

[King Bootz]

For starters, Burrow has gone to two straight AFC Championship games playing with a MUCH worse OL than Hurts has. The Eagles OL is the best in football. If you put Hurts in Cincinnati, they’re not going to the AFC Championship. Heck he may be sitting next to his old teammate Tua hurt and watching games from home.

Clue #1 that your defense has no legs to stand on: Instead of making an argument FOR the player you're trying to prop up, you make excuses. We're talking about Burrow or Hurts but you have to bring in the Oline, Tua, "If he played here then xxx".That's you trying to create a curve to grade on. It doesn't support your position at all. It in fact weakens it because you're saying without your excuses your argument has no merit.

Hurts has been great this year. But it’s one year of great football. If he can repeat this again next year, then he has an argument that he’s up there with Burrow and Allen. But he was just okay last year…an 87.2 rating. 16 TDs vs 9 INts isn’t anything special. So he’s made great strides this year. He has to do it again, though, to show he belongs.

This is something fans here arent well versed on: PROGRESSION. It's called progression for a reason. What you aim to see is a player improve as they play more. Especially young QBs. Fans here for some reason all of a sudden believe if a young QB doesn't come into the league guns blazing then they aren't good. Not the case. Development matters more. The trends matter more. Now let's see how these 2 developed. Burrows passer rating last year was 108.3. This year it dropped to 100.5. So he regressed in that regard. Hurts' passer rating as you stated was 87.2 last year. This year he improved it to 101.5, which is better than Burrow's.

We’ve seen lots of qbs have have one great year and then disappear. Does that one great year mean they belong in the top 1 or two tiers, too? You have to maintain it for at least a couple years before people put you among the best. He’s getting MVP recognition for this year…not last. Allen has been getting MVP consideration I think 3 years on a row if I’m not mistaken.

We sure have. What typically does not happen though is young QBs who have a great year and then fall off. It's usually a 2013 Josh McCown situation. A guy meddling around the league, mostly average to mediocre play and then BOOM! All of a sudden he has 1 great season, his 1st in say a 10 year career.

Now more on your "it's just 1 great year" bullshit argument that I'm about to destroy right now. Let's look at what you had to say about another QB who had "1 great season" after an abysmal rookie year.

But he’s getting there and could be there by next season if he keeps progressing. But I’d take Joe Burrow over him. Maybe even Trevor Lawrence the way he’s progressing in Jax.

Trevor Lawrence went 3-14 in 2021. Trevor Lawrence threw 12 TDs to 17 INTs in 2021. Trevor Lawrence had by your own logic and standard, 1 GREAT YEAR in 2022. Yet Hurts is somehow behind him? That's the problem I have with your flawed arguments. You're very inconsistent across the board and make zero sense.

[Navybuc]

For starters, Burrow has gone to two straight AFC Championship games playing with a MUCH worse OL than Hurts has. The Eagles OL is the best in football. If you put Hurts in Cincinnati, they’re not going to the AFC Championship. Heck he may be sitting next to his old teammate Tua hurt and watching games from home.

Clue #1 that your defense has no legs to stand on: Instead of making an argument FOR the player you're trying to prop up, you make excuses. We're talking about Burrow or Hurts but you have to bring in the Oline, Tua, "If he played here then xxx".That's you trying to create a curve to grade on. It doesn't support your position at all. It in fact weakens it because you're saying without your excuses your argument has no merit.

Hurts has been great this year. But it’s one year of great football. If he can repeat this again next year, then he has an argument that he’s up there with Burrow and Allen. But he was just okay last year…an 87.2 rating. 16 TDs vs 9 INts isn’t anything special. So he’s made great strides this year. He has to do it again, though, to show he belongs.

This is something fans here arent well versed on: PROGRESSION. It's called progression for a reason. What you aim to see is a player improve as they play more. Especially young QBs. Fans here for some reason all of a sudden believe if a young QB doesn't come into the league guns blazing then they aren't good. Not the case. Development matters more. The trends matter more. Now let's see how these 2 developed. Burrows passer rating last year was 108.3. This year it dropped to 100.5. So he regressed in that regard. Hurts' passer rating as you stated was 87.2 last year. This year he improved it to 101.5, which is better than Burrow's.

We’ve seen lots of qbs have have one great year and then disappear. Does that one great year mean they belong in the top 1 or two tiers, too? You have to maintain it for at least a couple years before people put you among the best. He’s getting MVP recognition for this year…not last. Allen has been getting MVP consideration I think 3 years on a row if I’m not mistaken.

We sure have. What typically does not happen though is young QBs who have a great year and then fall off. It's usually a 2013 Josh McCown situation. A guy meddling around the league, mostly average to mediocre play and then BOOM! All of a sudden he has 1 great season, his 1st in say a 10 year career.

Now more on your "it's just 1 great year" bullshit argument that I'm about to destroy right now. Let's look at what you had to say about another QB who had "1 great season" after an abysmal rookie year.

But he’s getting there and could be there by next season if he keeps progressing. But I’d take Joe Burrow over him. Maybe even Trevor Lawrence the way he’s progressing in Jax.

Trevor Lawrence went 3-14 in 2021. Trevor Lawrence threw 12 TDs to 17 INTs in 2021. Trevor Lawrence had by your own logic and standard, 1 GREAT YEAR in 2022. Yet Hurts is somehow behind him? That's the problem I have with your flawed arguments. You're very inconsistent across the board and make zero sense.

1) You're damn right I am bringing up the OL, because what Burrow has done, going to two straight AFC Championship Games with a horrible OL is nothing short of incredible. So yeah, I bring it up. Hurts has been great, too, for one season behind a great OL. But I am so impressed with what Burrow has done in Cincinnati, winning 9 of his last 10, while his OL continuously breaks down.

2) That's great. Hurts progressed. I gave him props for that. I'm not saying he needs to put up the same exact numbers next year, but let's see him stay in the MVP conversation like Allen and Burrow have been doing now for a couple of years.

3) So can I ask you a question? Are you reading impaired? Show me where I said that Lawerence is in the same class as Burrow or Allen? You did this yesterday, too. You read what you want to. I don't think he's in the same class for the same reason I don't think Hurts is. I would rank Lawrence ahead of Hurts on who I'd want to build my franchise around and who I think has more talent. He should be...he was a #1 draft pick and Hurts wasn't even selected in the first round. I think Lawrence has more potential and I'm really impressed what he did this past season with not nearly as good of players around him as Hurts. That's my opinion. If I had five draft picks, I'm using Mahomes, Burrow and Allen on the first 3, and I'd be debating between Herbert and Lawrence for 4 and 5. And I guarantee any NFL GM would do the same exact thing! Those that don't base color at least, like you do. (There I said it...I hate to, but I had to because you're making it way too obvious).

[King Bootz]

1) You're damn right I am bringing up the OL, because what Burrow has done, going to two straight AFC Championship Games with a horrible OL is nothing short of incredible. So yeah, I bring it up. Hurts has been great, too, for one season behind a great OL. But I am so impressed with what Burrow has done in Cincinnati, winning 9 of his last 10, while his OL continuously breaks down.

Okay so you're admitting that you know your argument can't stand on its own merit and you're purposely trying to grade on a curve here. Got it.

2) That's great. Hurts progressed. I gave him props for that. I'm not saying he needs to put up the same exact numbers next year, but let's see him stay in the MVP conversation like Allen and Burrow have been doing now for a couple of years.

Other than this year when has either been in the MVP conversation? Burrows wasn't in the MVP race his rookie year. His team went 2-7-1 before he tore his ACL. 2021 was a 2 man race between Brady & Rodgers for most of the season. Allen certainly wasn't in MVP consideration his 1st 2 seasons. People tried to write him off. 2020, there were 3 QBs who threw 40+ TDs, and he wasn't one of them. Rodgers had that thing on lock with just 5 picks to 48 TD passes. 2021, same as Burrow, that was a 2 man race. So this is really the 1st year all 3 of them have been MVP candidates.

3) So can I ask you a question? Are you reading impaired? Show me where I said that Lawerence is in the same class as Burrow or Allen? You did this yesterday, too. You read what you want to. I don't think he's in the same class for the same reason I don't think Hurts is. I would rank Lawrence ahead of Hurts on who I'd want to build my franchise around and who I think has more talent. He should be...he was a #1 draft pick and Hurts wasn't even selected in the first round. I think Lawrence has more potential and I'm really impressed what he did this past season with not nearly as good of players around him as Hurts. That's my opinion. If I had five draft picks, I'm using Mahomes, Burrow and Allen on the first 3, and I'd be debating between Herbert and Lawrence for 4 and 5. And I guarantee any NFL GM would do the same exact thing! Those that don't base color at least, like you do. (There I said it...I hate to, but I had to because you're making it way too obvious).
[/quote]

And there we have it. Despite the fact that you made 1 argument for why Hurts isn't on Burrows level, then when it's proven that Lawrence to this point isn't on Hurts level, you make your agenda known. That's why you, @Digital_Damage as well, bring race into this. You think by deflecting to me, fabricating that I'm even making this about race when I'm not people won't see that it's in fact YOU who are doing so. Just admit that your argument here about Lawrence has zero to do with on field performance because if it did you'd be more vocal about 12/17 and needing to see more. Same with Herbert. And if NFL GMs would do the same, guaranteed, show me. I'll wait.

[Navybuc]

1) You're damn right I am bringing up the OL, because what Burrow has done, going to two straight AFC Championship Games with a horrible OL is nothing short of incredible. So yeah, I bring it up. Hurts has been great, too, for one season behind a great OL. But I am so impressed with what Burrow has done in Cincinnati, winning 9 of his last 10, while his OL continuously breaks down.

Okay so you're admitting that you know your argument can't stand on its own merit and you're purposely trying to grade on a curve here. Got it.

2) That's great. Hurts progressed. I gave him props for that. I'm not saying he needs to put up the same exact numbers next year, but let's see him stay in the MVP conversation like Allen and Burrow have been doing now for a couple of years.

Other than this year when has either been in the MVP conversation? Burrows wasn't in the MVP race his rookie year. His team went 2-7-1 before he tore his ACL. 2021 was a 2 man race between Brady & Rodgers for most of the season. Allen certainly wasn't in MVP consideration his 1st 2 seasons. People tried to write him off. 2020, there were 3 QBs who threw 40+ TDs, and he wasn't one of them. Rodgers had that thing on lock with just 5 picks to 48 TD passes. 2021, same as Burrow, that was a 2 man race. So this is really the 1st year all 3 of them have been MVP candidates.

3) So can I ask you a question? Are you reading impaired? Show me where I said that Lawerence is in the same class as Burrow or Allen? You did this yesterday, too. You read what you want to. I don't think he's in the same class for the same reason I don't think Hurts is. I would rank Lawrence ahead of Hurts on who I'd want to build my franchise around and who I think has more talent. He should be...he was a #1 draft pick and Hurts wasn't even selected in the first round. I think Lawrence has more potential and I'm really impressed what he did this past season with not nearly as good of players around him as Hurts. That's my opinion. If I had five draft picks, I'm using Mahomes, Burrow and Allen on the first 3, and I'd be debating between Herbert and Lawrence for 4 and 5. And I guarantee any NFL GM would do the same exact thing! Those that don't base color at least, like you do. (There I said it...I hate to, but I had to because you're making it way too obvious).

And there we have it. Despite the fact that you made 1 argument for why Hurts isn't on Burrows level, then when it's proven that Lawrence to this point isn't on Hurts level, you make your agenda known. That's why you, @Digital_Damage as well, bring race into this. You think by deflecting to me, fabricating that I'm even making this about race when I'm not people won't see that it's in fact YOU who are doing so. Just admit that your argument here about Lawrence has zero to do with on field performance because if it did you'd be more vocal about 12/17 and needing to see more. Same with Herbert. And if NFL GMs would do the same, guaranteed, show me. I'll wait.

Bootz, I'm only saying that because you're not making any sense. The fact you're trying to put Hurts on Burrow and Allen's level is just plain stupid and you don't have anyone here agreeing with you, and like I said, not even Young and Aikman...two men who I trust a hell of a lot more than you...aren't saying it, either. It's a dumb argument. So I'm trying to understand your motivation for saying it. You've also said in the past you thought getting rid of Jameis Winston was a mistake, and you're pretty much the only person on this board who thinks Todd Bowles is a good coach. Come on, chief...like really.

And I've made plenty of arguments...considering Burrow has been to 2 straight AFC title games with less talent in front of him...considering he was able to back up his great year from a year ago with another one...the fact that his passer rating the last two years is a better average than Hurts...considering in the last two years he's thrown 69 TDs compared to Hurts who has thrown 38...considering Burrow's thrown for more than 9,000 yards the last two years and Hurts hasn't even thrown for 7,000. Shall I go on?

As far as Lawrence goes, as I said, from watching both players this past season as well as from college, I think Lawrence is more talented and has more potential. It's not to say he had the better season, but I would rather him as my starter going forward. I think he has more potential. He was the #1 overall pick in the Draft for Christ's sake. He should have more potential. Hurts is still going to be a great qb. But I think Lawrence will be better. If we did a draft here on this board, I'm pretty sure you may be the only guy taking Hurts over Lawrence. If all GMs had a Draft, I'm pretty sure they'd be taking Lawrence over Hurts, too.

[Pirate Life]

Hurts has had a special season for certain. Burrow has shown almost from the start that he’s in the top tier of current QBs. Hurts needs to show this season wasn’t an anomaly. Comparing their first two seasons and it’s no contest Burrow was better.

Seen too many outlier seasons from QBs to place Hurts top five overall in the game right now. But this one season he’s definitely part of the top tier. We’ll see what happens over the next few seasons.

[Doctor]

Exactly right. Some people just want to "call it early". Which could very well be true. Hurts is a baller. Have to see how he handles when things are going poorly. It's easy to be super when everything is rolling.

[The Outsider]

We should probably accept that we're in a period akin to the mid-80s through mid-90s level of QB talent when the league had Montana, Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Elway, Favre, Young, and Aikman.

At least 5-6 of those guys are all-time greats.

[King Bootz]

We should probably accept that we're in a period akin to the mid-80s through mid-90s level of QB talent when the league had Montana, Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Elway, Favre, Young, and Aikman.

At least 5-6 of those guys are all-time greats.

Exactly. At any given time, #2 could be anyone of 6-10 guys. That's how deep this league is with great QBs. At this point the only certainty is no one is close to touching #1.

[Nobody]

2022 season relevant metrics (Reg and Postseason combined) for Burrow and Hurts (they were both spectacular and deserving of runner-up MVP consideration):

BURROW

FBO DYAR 6
FBO DVOA 9
QBR 10
FIRST DOWNS/GAME 14.58
PFF GRADE 1
PFF BIG TIME THROW % 6
PFF TURNOVER WORTH PLAY % 3
OL RANKING 19 PFF/16 FBO

HURTS

FBO DYAR 10
FBO DVOA 10
QBR 4
FIRST DOWNS/GAME 11.65
PFF GRADE 6
PFF BIG TIME THROW % 21
PFF TURNOVER WORTH PLAY % 2
OL RANKING 1 PFF/5 FBO


—————-

One thing missing above is how Hurts amplifies that particular offense (ZRO and RPO and all the counters off of those). The PFF Grade and his First Down/Game catches that, but those are the only things. Hurts is a technician in that offense. He makes the right read and right play pretty relentlessly and that + his threat amplifies the play-makers of that offense considerably (and puts defenses in pretty terrible Catch-22s, especially on “& Short” and Redzone Tight).

There is no better technician in that scheme than Hurts. Its an offense that careless players who have a worse cognitive loop will put the ball in danger routinely. But look at Hurts TWP % ranking above. Guy is absolutely fantastic and you have to account for this intangible amplification.

[King Bootz]

2022 season relevant metrics (Reg and Postseason combined) for Burrow and Hurts (they were both spectacular and deserving of runner-up MVP consideration):

BURROW

FBO DYAR 6
FBO DVOA 9
QBR 10
FIRST DOWNS/GAME 14.58
PFF GRADE 1
PFF BIG TIME THROW % 6
PFF TURNOVER WORTH PLAY % 3
OL RANKING 19 PFF/16 FBO

HURTS

FBO DYAR 10
FBO DVOA 10
QBR 4
FIRST DOWNS/GAME 11.65
PFF GRADE 6
PFF BIG TIME THROW % 21
PFF TURNOVER WORTH PLAY % 2
OL RANKING 1 PFF/5 FBO


—————-

One thing missing above is how Hurts amplifies that particular offense (ZRO and RPO and all the counters off of those). The PFF Grade and his First Down/Game catches that, but those are the only things. Hurts is a technician in that offense. He makes the right read and right play pretty relentlessly and that + his threat amplifies the play-makers of that offense considerably (and puts defenses in pretty terrible Catch-22s, especially on “& Short” and Redzone Tight).

There is no better technician in that scheme than Hurts. Its an offense that careless players who have a worse cognitive loop will put the ball in danger routinely. But look at Hurts TWP % ranking above. Guy is absolutely fantastic and you have to account for this intangible amplification.

Something tells me that's "part" of the reason a Hurts led Eagles team is 16-1 so far this season with him as starter.

[Buc2]

I can't help but wonder how some folks have so much time to post those long, drawn-out arguments during the middle of the workday every day. It must be nice to have that kind of time on your hands.

[The Outsider]

I can't help but wonder how some folks have so much time to post those long, drawn-out arguments during the middle of the workday every day. It must be nice to have that kind of time on your hands.

Some people have jobs that aren't always major time sinks. Like when I was sysadmin waaaay back for my parent's mid-sized company I would have maybe 3-4 hours of actual work a day. It was only if I was doing major updates, onboarding a new employee, or we had some sort of system failure that I was actually really busy.

As for myself right now, I'm currently back in school and too injured to work in my past trades or really any of the minimum wage type jobs that are out there. I'm just lucky I have the resources to weather being an unemployed bum for a couple of years. As a result, with school being largely online and me being one of the GOAT procrastinators of my generation I tend to spend a lot of time shit posting on the internet. Alas, I finish my AS this semester so the fun is nearing it's end as I'll then be simultaneously pursuing a B.AS and finding work/working.

[Buc2]

I can't help but wonder how some folks have so much time to post those long, drawn-out arguments during the middle of the workday every day. It must be nice to have that kind of time on your hands.

Some people have jobs that aren't always major time sinks. Like when I was sysadmin waaaay back for my parent's mid-sized company I would have maybe 3-4 hours of actual work a day. It was only if I was doing major updates, onboarding a new employee, or we had some sort of system failure that I was actually really busy.

As for myself right now, I'm currently back in school and too injured to work in my past trades or really any of the minimum wage type jobs that are out there. I'm just lucky I have the resources to weather being an unemployed bum for a couple of years. As a result, with school being largely online and me being one of the GOAT procrastinators of my generation I tend to spend a lot of time shit posting on the internet. Alas, I finish my AS this semester so the fun is nearing it's end as I'll then be simultaneously pursuing a B.AS and finding work/working.

I get being able to post throughout the day. Hell, even I have time for that. I'm just surprised at the number of long, detailed arguments some folks are able to have. Before they can even post, they have to spend time doing research to support those long arguments.

But, yeah, I can get on here several times a day and spend 2-3 minutes reading a few posts and responding. I usually save longer reading/posts for my lunch break which I usually spend at my desk.

[Doctor]

I post while I poop. Probably why all my posts are so shitty.

[BucsNBills]

Burrow, and it's not close. The AFCCG was the closest I've felt to watching Brady and Manning from back in the day. Shame the refs had to effect the game so much.

[The Outsider]

Some people have jobs that aren't always major time sinks. Like when I was sysadmin waaaay back for my parent's mid-sized company I would have maybe 3-4 hours of actual work a day. It was only if I was doing major updates, onboarding a new employee, or we had some sort of system failure that I was actually really busy.

As for myself right now, I'm currently back in school and too injured to work in my past trades or really any of the minimum wage type jobs that are out there. I'm just lucky I have the resources to weather being an unemployed bum for a couple of years. As a result, with school being largely online and me being one of the GOAT procrastinators of my generation I tend to spend a lot of time shit posting on the internet. Alas, I finish my AS this semester so the fun is nearing it's end as I'll then be simultaneously pursuing a B.AS and finding work/working.

I get being able to post throughout the day. Hell, even I have time for that. I'm just surprised at the number of long, detailed arguments some folks are able to have. Before they can even post, they have to spend time doing research to support those long arguments.

But, yeah, I can get on here several times a day and spend 2-3 minutes reading a few posts and responding. I usually save longer reading/posts for my lunch break which I usually spend at my desk.

There's also the fact that a ton of people don't work 9-5 hours like the entire service industry, retail, etc.

[Buc2]

I get being able to post throughout the day. Hell, even I have time for that. I'm just surprised at the number of long, detailed arguments some folks are able to have. Before they can even post, they have to spend time doing research to support those long arguments.

But, yeah, I can get on here several times a day and spend 2-3 minutes reading a few posts and responding. I usually save longer reading/posts for my lunch break which I usually spend at my desk.

There's also the fact that a ton of people don't work 9-5 hours like the entire service industry, retail, etc.

This is true. Maybe 9-5 is their off time.

[Digital_Damage]

2022 season relevant metrics (Reg and Postseason combined) for Burrow and Hurts (they were both spectacular and deserving of runner-up MVP consideration):

BURROW

FBO DYAR 6
FBO DVOA 9
QBR 10
FIRST DOWNS/GAME 14.58
PFF GRADE 1
PFF BIG TIME THROW % 6
PFF TURNOVER WORTH PLAY % 3
OL RANKING 19 PFF/16 FBO

HURTS

FBO DYAR 10
FBO DVOA 10
QBR 4
FIRST DOWNS/GAME 11.65
PFF GRADE 6
PFF BIG TIME THROW % 21
PFF TURNOVER WORTH PLAY % 2
OL RANKING 1 PFF/5 FBO


—————-

One thing missing above is how Hurts amplifies that particular offense (ZRO and RPO and all the counters off of those). The PFF Grade and his First Down/Game catches that, but those are the only things. Hurts is a technician in that offense. He makes the right read and right play pretty relentlessly and that + his threat amplifies the play-makers of that offense considerably (and puts defenses in pretty terrible Catch-22s, especially on “& Short” and Redzone Tight).

There is no better technician in that scheme than Hurts. Its an offense that careless players who have a worse cognitive loop will put the ball in danger routinely. But look at Hurts TWP % ranking above. Guy is absolutely fantastic and you have to account for this intangible amplification.

I don't think anyone is arguing this year's accomplishments. What almost everyone is saying is, show us this was not a fluke before you are crowned.

[King Bootz]

I seem to recall Josh Allen being labeled as a top 5 QB after the 2020 season..

[The Outsider]

Josh Allen is a top 5 QB. He played with a partial UCL tear (any sprain is at least a partial tear) for the last 7 weeks of the season and then in the playoffs.

We saw what Purdy looked like with a full UCL injury, the fact that Allen was able to keep playing at such a high level in spite of that injury says everything you need to know about how good he is.

Needs to clean up the fumbles, though.

[King Bootz]

Josh Allen is a top 5 QB. He played with a partial UCL tear (any sprain is at least a partial tear) for the last 7 weeks of the season and then in the playoffs.

We saw what Purdy looked like with a full UCL injury, the fact that Allen was able to keep playing at such a high level in spite of that injury says everything you need to know about how good he is.

Needs to clean up the fumbles, though.

I seem to recall Josh Allen being labeled as a top 5 QB after the 2020 season..

I thought you loved reading.

[The Outsider]

Josh Allen is a top 5 QB. He played with a partial UCL tear (any sprain is at least a partial tear) for the last 7 weeks of the season and then in the playoffs.

We saw what Purdy looked like with a full UCL injury, the fact that Allen was able to keep playing at such a high level in spite of that injury says everything you need to know about how good he is.

Needs to clean up the fumbles, though.

I seem to recall Josh Allen being labeled as a top 5 QB after the 2020 season..

I thought you loved reading.

I do, it's just that Allen was individually better in 2020 than Hurts was this year outside of rushing yards and it was only in one more game so that argument doesn't parse as well.



Just compare his 2020 with the above tweet with Hurts' 2022. This isn't a knock on Hurts at all, and I think he'll be a guy who is perennially up there with Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Jackson for the foreseeable future, I just think his career trajectory is way different than Allen's was. It's not a great comparison.

[King Bootz]

I thought you loved reading.

I do, it's just that Allen was individually better in 2020 than Hurts was this year outside of rushing yards and it was only in one more game so that argument doesn't parse as well.



Just compare his 2020 with the above tweet with Hurts' 2022. This isn't a knock on Hurts at all, and I think he'll be a guy who is perennially up there with Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, and Jackson for the foreseeable future, I just think his career trajectory is way different than Allen's was. It's not a great comparison.

This goes completely against the argument others are making that 1 season could be a fluke. It's exactly what @Digital_Damage harps on routinely. But, you admit Allen was crowned after 2 shitty seasons and 1 great season, correct?

[The Outsider]

Allen's second season was hardly shitty. He had a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio, he improved his comp % by 8 points and his rating by almost 20 points. He threw 3 less INTs his second season in 4 more games than he did his first.

Buffalo was still a pretty bad team in 2019 and he basically carried them to the Wild Card round.

Hurts was drafted by a team that was already pretty good and then had that team further built around him leading to today's Eagles.

Again, no disparagement to Hurts, but its not a good comparison because context matters. Though as usual that seems to escape you.

[King Bootz]

Allen's second season was hardly shitty. He had a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio, he improved his comp % by 8 points and his rating by almost 20 points. He threw 3 less INTs his second season in 4 more games than he did his first.

Buffalo was still a pretty bad team in 2019 and he basically carried them to the Wild Card round.

Hurts was drafted by a team that was already pretty good and then had that team further built around him leading to today's Eagles.

Again, no disparagement to Hurts, but its not a good comparison because context matters. Though as usual that seems to escape you.

Hmmmm yet Hurts' 2nd season, 1 in which he also improved across the board, was his 1st as a full time starter and made the playoffs was shitty? Love where this is going.

[The Outsider]

Allen's second season was hardly shitty. He had a better than 2:1 TD/INT ratio, he improved his comp % by 8 points and his rating by almost 20 points. He threw 3 less INTs his second season in 4 more games than he did his first.

Buffalo was still a pretty bad team in 2019 and he basically carried them to the Wild Card round.

Hurts was drafted by a team that was already pretty good and then had that team further built around him leading to today's Eagles.

Again, no disparagement to Hurts, but its not a good comparison because context matters. Though as usual that seems to escape you.

Hmmmm yet Hurts' 2nd season, 1 in which he also improved across the board, was his 1st as a full time starter and made the playoffs was shitty? Love where this is going.

Did I say his season was shitty?

[King Bootz]

Hmmmm yet Hurts' 2nd season, 1 in which he also improved across the board, was his 1st as a full time starter and made the playoffs was shitty? Love where this is going.

Did I say his season was shitty?

Again you stepped into the discussion defending a POV, so I can't assume which parts of his argument you agree or disagree with.

[The Outsider]

Did I say his season was shitty?

Again you stepped into the discussion defending a POV, so I can't assume which parts of his argument you agree or disagree with.

I disagree with both of you. I think Hurts deserves to be in the conversation now, I think using Josh Allen as an example of someone being crowned too early is stupid.