WTF was wrong with this team

[Doctor]

That's a little unfair. While it's true Brady fills up any room he's in, we also have a lot of great guys on this team.

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

But but but Caleb!!!

[Cheb]

That's a little unfair. While it's true Brady fills up any room he's in, we also have a lot of great guys on this team.

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

I'd agree with the idea that our core is still pretty strong despite Brady likely leaving One Buc. Maybe stronger for his leaving, honestly, but I digress.

The Bucs have a good squad, with a ton of experience as well as some good young pieces to build around. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

[King Bootz]

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

I'd agree with the idea that our core is still pretty strong despite Brady likely leaving One Buc. Maybe stronger for his leaving, honestly, but I digress.

The Bucs have a good squad, with a ton of experience as well as some good young pieces to build around. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

Easy to forget that even with Jameis Winston and 30 INTs, this team went 7-9 and scored 4 TDs/game.

With the exception of LVD, everyone on that list is already under contract for 2023 and will undoubtedly be returning. This team ain't sniffing the #1 overall pick.

[MJW]

That's a little unfair. While it's true Brady fills up any room he's in, we also have a lot of great guys on this team.

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

You know you can name a bunch of talented players on nearly every roster ever, right? But someone always has the #1 overall pick.

This isn't fantasy football. A team is not a list of names. Casuals sometimes make this mistake. You need a hell of a lot of good coaching and some good quarterbacking, amongst other things.

[King Bootz]

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

You know you can name a bunch of talented players on nearly every roster ever, right? But someone always has the #1 overall pick.

This isn't fantasy football. A team is not a list of names. Casuals sometimes make this mistake. You need a hell of a lot of good coaching and some good quarterbacking, amongst other things.

I don't even have to be as purposely vague as you're being. Stack this roster up with the Bears or Texans or Colts 2-53 and tell me either of them is worse than this Bucs roster. You won't of course but you can look at a 53 man roster and pretty much tell whether that's a roster that'll be looking at a top 5 pick. This ain't one of them.

[Selmon Rules]

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

I'd agree with the idea that our core is still pretty strong despite Brady likely leaving One Buc. Maybe stronger for his leaving, honestly, but I digress.

The Bucs have a good squad, with a ton of experience as well as some good young pieces to build around. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

There are good pieces there but they are missing the capstone that can make it work and a plan for how those pieces are supposed to work together

[King Bootz]

I'd agree with the idea that our core is still pretty strong despite Brady likely leaving One Buc. Maybe stronger for his leaving, honestly, but I digress.

The Bucs have a good squad, with a ton of experience as well as some good young pieces to build around. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

There are good pieces there but they are missing the capstone that can make it work and a plan for how those pieces are supposed to work together

Those same pieces minus Tristan Wirfs & AWJ went 7-9 with Jameis Winston throwing 30 INTs.

[Navybuc]

I'd agree with the idea that our core is still pretty strong despite Brady likely leaving One Buc. Maybe stronger for his leaving, honestly, but I digress.

The Bucs have a good squad, with a ton of experience as well as some good young pieces to build around. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

There are good pieces there but they are missing the capstone that can make it work and a plan for how those pieces are supposed to work together

We’re also missing a good HC which is what concerns me. Bowles is horrible and I don’t have any faith in him to make the playoffs even if we had the 1989 49ers roster.

[mdb1958]

There are good pieces there but they are missing the capstone that can make it work and a plan for how those pieces are supposed to work together

Those same pieces minus Tristan Wirfs & AWJ went 7-9 with Jameis Winston throwing 30 INTs.

With three years of nothing from Monken before that.

[wesmon]

The Steelers game. They were completely ignoring him and with good reason. He went to Kraft's wedding that Friday and met the team in Pittsburgh Saturday. IIRC he missed the team walk through.

That should have never been allowed to happen. Belichick wasn't even at the wedding. Nor were any Patriots coaches or players.

You can't preach to me if you're doing something different.

This game was the one that bothered me. What bothers me more than Brady actually going to the wedding instead of being with the team, is that the organization signed off on it. Bending over backwards for one player that’s likely going to leave us high and dry anyways. If it were literally any other football player besides Tom Brady, he would have been crucified in the media for that.

Yeah, the front office sent a message to the team letting Brady get away with that. There was a pattern of bad decisions to appease Brady, such as going out and signing every broken down, aged receiver.

[Doctor]

Indeed. We were all for it at the time, no one wanted to be the one to tell Brady no. If there was anything left to squeeze out of that window it was going to be with him at QB, him redoing his cap hit, him with a strong voice.

Well earned. More earned than any other player.

It didn't work. That's fine. We tried. This year I think it's a little different. I still think Brady is our best shot of winning it all next year, point blank. I think coaches agree. Also think we're Brady's 3rd best shot of winning another ring.

More so, I think the team, OBP and fan base is more ready to move on to the next chapter. which means a little less bending of the knee to Best, which is probably for the best.

[Grahamburn]

You know you can name a bunch of talented players on nearly every roster ever, right? But someone always has the #1 overall pick.

This isn't fantasy football. A team is not a list of names. Casuals sometimes make this mistake. You need a hell of a lot of good coaching and some good quarterbacking, amongst other things.

I don't even have to be as purposely vague as you're being. Stack this roster up with the Bears or Texans or Colts 2-53 and tell me either of them is worse than this Bucs roster. You won't of course but you can look at a 53 man roster and pretty much tell whether that's a roster that'll be looking at a top 5 pick. This ain't one of them.

Kyle Trask playing QB might have something to say about that.

[Miller4Prez64]

I'd agree with the idea that our core is still pretty strong despite Brady likely leaving One Buc. Maybe stronger for his leaving, honestly, but I digress.

The Bucs have a good squad, with a ton of experience as well as some good young pieces to build around. The sky hasn't fallen yet.

Easy to forget that even with Jameis Winston and 30 INTs, this team went 7-9 and scored 4 TDs/game.

With the exception of LVD, everyone on that list is already under contract for 2023 and will undoubtedly be returning. This team ain't sniffing the #1 overall pick.

Also easy to forget that happened years ago. I’m not sure a single player left from that 2019 team is positioned to be a more productive player for the 2023 season. Maybe Vea.

You’re usually one (correctly) arguing that past results don’t indicate future ones, so I’m honestly kind of surprised this is the point you are trying to make.

[MJW]

I still think Brady is our best shot of winning it all next year, point blank. I think coaches agree. Also think we're Brady's 3rd best shot of winning another ring.

I agree 1000% percent. Brady IS our best shot at winning a ring next year. He moves the odds from "ROTFLMAO" to just "LOLOL."

OBP knows. Licht knows. The coaches know. Ownership knows.
Ownership doesn't care, because more Brady will sell more T-shirts, even on a terrible team.
The coaches don't care. Nor should they. They're trying to save their jobs.
Licht SHOULD care. He's the one tasked with having vision past the next season. But his job is on the line too.

And as with most things, the fans who'll be around when none of these people give a shit about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers will get to enjoy the results.

[Doctor]

A GMs job isn't just looking to future seasons, but ALSO the ones right before him.
Some of you act like putting together the best squad we can muster for 2023 is NOT part of his job.

[real bucs fan]

I think ultimately the coaching staff Arians left behind just weren’t able to grab the bull by the horns.

[13F11B]

A GMs job isn't just looking to future seasons, but ALSO the ones right before him.
Some of you act like putting together the best squad we can muster for 2023 is NOT part of his job.

Yeah, it is a balancing act. I think it all comes down to is the window still open with the supporting cast or is it closed. Only the coaching staff and GM really know the answer to that question. They were a sub-.500 team this year that in many ways was lucky to have won 8 games. Will they be able to add depth, retain the necessary parts, and add missing pieces? We will see. We will see.

[Big Irv]

There’s so many things that happened this year. This team was so much different than last year’s. In no particular order…

#1. Losing Bruce Arians hurt us, a lot. Jury is still out on Bowles, but there’s no question Arians is a great coach. He’s now led 3 different organizations to the playoffs and 2 to the NFCCG. Including the perpetual losers in Arizona and Tampa.

#2. We lost 3 hall of fame talents. Gronk is a first ballot gold jacket, who is still a matchup nightmare in the passing game and elite as a run blocker. AB would be a first ballot guy in his prime if he didn’t have a series of mental breakdowns over the past 5 years. Marpet is tragically underrated and is definitely a Buccaneers Ring of honor guy. We couldn’t replace those guys with anyone even close to their talent. Plus Mike and Lenny seem to have both lost a step and Godwin wasn’t 100% until near the end of the season.

#3. Leftwich is who we thought he was. Arians carried him for 2 years and now he was exposed. On that same note, Brady is a great QB, but a horrible offensive coordinator. He had too much control of the offense and it showed.

#4. We lost 3 difference makers on our defensive line. JPP made Shaq Barrett look a little better than he really was. Barrett got hurt and we lost Suh, who was still very good at what he does. Plus Hicks was in and out of the lineup.

#5. This may be the biggest factor. Brady was not Brady this year. His play is still good. His attitude and demeanor sucked. I recall a story from his days in New England where Brady went out of his want to introduce himself and talk to a undrafted rookie. That Brady didn’t show up this year. He wasn’t all in. His arm can still do it. I’m not sure if his mind can. He looked burnt out.

#6. This team was only constructed to win for 2 years. Brady was supposed to be gone this year. That’s how all the contracts were designed. Year 3 was thrown together to try winning 1 more time. The deck was stacked against us and we all should have known it was doomed to fail.

[Miller4Prez64]

A GMs job isn't just looking to future seasons, but ALSO the ones right before him.
Some of you act like putting together the best squad we can muster for 2023 is NOT part of his job.

Once again, how do you put together the best squad you can muster for 2023 without hurting future seasons? The longer you push the bill away, the more it’s going to hurt when you finally have no choice to pay it.

[MJW]

A GMs job isn't just looking to future seasons, but ALSO the ones right before him.
Some of you act like putting together the best squad we can muster for 2023 is NOT part of his job.

It's absolutely part of the job.

It just shouldn't be the top priority when Ray Fucking Charles could see we're not going anywhere in 2023 no matter what we do. And if he's inclined to make moves that cost us future assets for 2023 because he can't see that, he's incompetent. If he does so because he thinks a few more wins this year can save his job, he should already be fired.

We can talk about "he should do this AND this," that's fine. But at some point, you're deciding whether to spend a nickel today or invest it in tomorrow, because you can't do shit with a nickel anyway. I want to see the nickel invested. Any Bucs fan who isn't a) terminally ill or b) willfully obtuse should want the same thing. There is no scenario, no set of brilliant moves, no degree of draft success, that's going to put this Todd Bowles led team in the same class with teams like the Eagles, 49ers, Bills, Chiefs, etc in 2023. The roster is too thin, the cap space is too limited, the lines are too iffy, and the head coach is too shitty. So let's fucking build something.

[13F11B]

I agree with @MJW. This team is not a team full of young players growing into their positions. This past August the team was listed as the oldest team in the league. Brady skewed that, but the fact remains it was the oldest roster in the league last season.

The NFL’s oldest team, the Buccaneers (27.1 average age), is not much of a surprise considering one of the oldest yet greatest players in the game leads the team, quarterback Tom Brady.

source

If Brady comes back could this team be a serious contender for the Super Bowl? Certainly, it could. However, it still feels like a team where the window has shut versus a team that is just starting to crack open the window. At some point, the GM has to realize that and bite the bullet and rebuild. Call it whatever stupid politically correct term you want, but it is a rebuild.

[Doctor]

Except... that's not how sports work at all.

This isn't Europe, the best team doesn't get crowned. We have a playoff. Far too often the best team is NOT the one to win the championship, that's what makes American sports beautiful.

The average tenure for a HC and GM is 3 years.
That's 3 seasons. Sometimes less.

You aren't punting or tanking any of them to hope some rookie savior bails you out at the end. You balance your checkbook, you get your house in order, and you go out to shoot the best shot that you can while you are still lucky enough to be calling the shots at all. Anyone can have a plucky run any given season.

This "don't try unless you go into a season as a heavy favorite" bs is just more draft groupie propaganda.

[Buc2]

Except... that's not how sports work at all.

This isn't Europe, the best team doesn't get crowned. We have a playoff. Far too often the best team is NOT the one to win the championship, that's what makes American sports beautiful.

The average tenure for a HC and GM is 3 years.
That's 3 seasons. Sometimes less.

You aren't punting or tanking any of them to hope some rookie savior bails you out at the end. You balance your checkbook, you get your house in order, and you go out to shoot the best shot that you can while you are still lucky enough to be calling the shots at all. Anyone can have a plucky run any given season.

This "don't try unless you go into a season as a heavy favorite" bs is just more draft groupie propaganda.

Right? I don't think any team goes into a season with the goal to tank. Now, that's not to say they won't tank the last game or 2 if all is already lost in order to try and improve their draft position a slot or 2 just in case they aren't fired.

[Big Irv]

Of course Licht is going to win as many games this year as possible.

The last 3 years, he sold out the future to win in the present.

The previous years he did a great job of keeping our salary cap in good shape for when that SuperBowl window did eventually open. If he had kicked the can down the road in 2018 we wouldn’t have been able to keep our SuperBowl team together in 2021 for that second run.

I hope/expect Licht to take his lumps from the 2020-2022 can kicking now so he can build a new window in the future. He will win as many games as possible this year with the amount of dead cap money we’ve placed on ourselves.

IMO, he played the cap game perfectly. He didn’t overspend for a bad team pre 2020. He overspent for a contender 2020-2022 and now he will underspend to clear dead money for a year with better prospects.

[Al Bundy]

That's a little unfair. While it's true Brady fills up any room he's in, we also have a lot of great guys on this team.

This doesn't play up to the narrative that without Brady, a team consisting of Tristan Wirfs, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen, Vita Vea, Antoine Winfield Jr, Shaq Barrett, Carlton Davis, Lavonte David, Devin White will be in the running for the #1 overall pick.

Devin White could definitely be a starting LBer for a 2-15 team, he is trash.