Who do you want to be the QB for the Bucs in 2023?

[acmillis]

Let’s count the meaningless platitudes:

1. “He got to see Tom work.” - insert list of 100 quarterbacks who got to watch Tom Brady work and did not amount to anything. Of the ones that got a chance to start elsewhere...they did above average.

2. “Gabbert was a great mentor.” - ditto. not sure what you're point is.

3. “He has the size.” - in a league where Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Bryce Young are set to do very very well…what does this mean? that's a super terrible take to say that a dude (Murray) who ain't that good, and an unknown rookie are, "set to do very, very well"

4. “He’s mobile.” - I find Josh Allen to be mobile. I find Justin Herbert to be mobile. Is Trask mobile? IDK, he hasn't played more than 34 seconds in the NFL...we shall see.

5. “He has the arm.” - a matter of debate. Every qb who plays in the NFL "has the arm"

[Buc2]

The good news for people who hate that deal is that even if the Bucs wanted to do it, the Bears would likely reject it.

Works for me. The last thing this team can afford to give up is draft capital. IMO.

[Doctor]

I will never understand the cynics' approach to fandom. To always see the worst-case scenario and occasionally be surprised by the successes. That's just an awful way to watch sports.

[Buc2]

I will never understand the cynics' approach to fandom. To always see the worst-case scenario and occasionally be surprised by the successes. That's just an awful way to watch sports.

I'm not being cynical in my approach to this team. I may joke about our team's propensity to screw shit up, but that's not the same as being cynical. I have not been in favor of "blowing it up" from the start. There's no need to. That doesn't mean I think the team will be good and it doesn't mean I think they'll be bad. I just never favor the fan approach of blowing it up and tanking a whole season for a high-round draft pick. It's a defeatist way to approach a season and you risk at defeatist attitude permeating your team, not just for the tank season, but future seasons as well. Play to win. Period.

[Snake]

I’m mad when we lose and relieved when we win.

There’s no perfect way to be a fan and everyone can do it differently.

[Doctor]

Blowing it all up, tanking, and securing the #1 pick....

[Snake]

If you can’t evaluate QBs, sure. Take JaMiss the RaPist

[Doctor]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

[Snake]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

For retards, sure. Just like Aguayo was a lock for the second round.

Once again, no one is capable of doing anything wrong in the NFL, because “consensus.” Lol!

[acmillis]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

That's a big reach. I'm sure on one of the other iterations of this board, someone can find the poll (OOCA) where a bunch wanted to trade out, a bunch wanted Mariota, and a bunch wanted Winston. I think that is representative of actual NFL folks as well, if I had to guess.

[Doctor]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

For retards, sure. Just like Aguayo was a lock for the second round.

Once again, no one is capable of doing anything wrong in the NFL, because “consensus.” Lol!

THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF TANKING IS BUILT ON CONSENSUS

[Doctor]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

That's a big reach. I'm sure on one of the other iterations of this board, someone can find the poll (OOCA) where a bunch wanted to trade out, a bunch wanted Mariota, and a bunch wanted Winston. I think that is representative of actual NFL folks as well, if I had to guess.

For sure there were some that wanted to trade down or go with Mariota. There were Colts fans that wanted to trade down or get RG3. There will always be SOME group that has a different opinion. But in both cases, it was "Tank for __" all year long and they were unmoved from the #1 overall pick in 95% of mocks. I'm sure the betting odds would show as much too. In both cases the teams had absolutely nothing at QB. Textbook cases of tanking strategy in action.

But of course Hindsight, the cousin of tanking, will always say the strategy is sound, you just made the wrong choice. Draft version of "it wasn't real communism".

[Selmon Rules]

I will never understand the cynics' approach to fandom. To always see the worst-case scenario and occasionally be surprised by the successes. That's just an awful way to watch sports.

I don't see myself as cynical about this team but I have been a fan since '76 and have tempered expectations....

Historically speaking, we have shown a propensity to make the wrong choice more times than not. It is what it is

I will continue to watch and hope for the best

[These Are The Days]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

That's a big reach. I'm sure on one of the other iterations of this board, someone can find the poll (OOCA) where a bunch wanted to trade out, a bunch wanted Mariota, and a bunch wanted Winston. I think that is representative of actual NFL folks as well, if I had to guess.

I think it ended up with something like just over half wanting Winston and the rest being split amongst the difference. If I had known he's the kind of guy who puts together these eccentric off-season workouts with his friends (and vehemently defends them) I'd have passed on the grounds that nothing he is doing would be improving him or his on field impulse control.

It's a damn shame because he was a top 10 QB in athleticism alone

[GreatTimes]

There have not been that many QB's that were sure locks to tank for that reached expectations. Manning, Luck, Burrow and Lawrence. Many of the so-called locks failed to meet expectations. Carnel Williams could end up being fools gold. The draft is a crap shoot.

[These Are The Days]

There have not been that many QB's that were sure locks to tank for that reached expectations. Manning, Luck, Burrow and Lawrence. Many of the so-called locks failed to meet expectations. Carnel Williams could end up being fools gold. The draft is a crap shoot.

I call baloney on that. Our defense was still lights out in 2005. You could have done worse than Griese at QB, Galloway was a gem, Ike Hilliard is probably to this day still the best #3 we've ever had. The only real need was at RB and for Gruden to stop doing rocket surgery in his approach. Drafting Cadillac was the right thing to do and had he not blown out his knees he'd have been one of our best ever.

I know people argue about Aaron Rodgers and all I can say is Gruden would've chewed him up and spit him out just like every young QB he's ever got his hands on. We'd have pissed him away

That team had at least a conference championship appearance in them

[Doctor]

Manning was far from a lock. In fact, the Manning/Leaf debate was far closer to 50/50 across the league than Luck/RG3 or Winston/MM debates ever were. Burrow wasn't even on the map for the first round let alone the top pick, it was all "Tank for Tua".

I'm assuming you mean Caleb, and sure, he could be. Heck, maybe by this time next year it's all about Maye or some other guy who came out of no where to Burrow the pick. Just more reason this tank for a savior plan is naive hogwash.

[acmillis]

There have not been that many QB's that were sure locks to tank for that reached expectations. Manning, Luck, Burrow and Lawrence. Many of the so-called locks failed to meet expectations. Carnel Williams could end up being fools gold. The draft is a crap shoot.

Burrow wasn’t even on the radar until after his last season in college.

[MJW]

Stop it. Winston was as much of a lock as there ever was for a tank year.

That's a big reach. I'm sure on one of the other iterations of this board, someone can find the poll (OOCA) where a bunch wanted to trade out, a bunch wanted Mariota, and a bunch wanted Winston. I think that is representative of actual NFL folks as well, if I had to guess.

Winston was definitely the top pick, but more people wanted another option (Mariota, Trade Down, even Amari Cooper or Leonard Williams etc) than wanted Winston.

[MJW]

Just more reason this tank for a savior plan is naive hogwash.

I agree, tanking for a savior is stupid.

Building future assets is not.

[Four Verticals]

That's a big reach. I'm sure on one of the other iterations of this board, someone can find the poll (OOCA) where a bunch wanted to trade out, a bunch wanted Mariota, and a bunch wanted Winston. I think that is representative of actual NFL folks as well, if I had to guess.

Winston was definitely the top pick, but more people wanted another option (Mariota, Trade Down, even Amari Cooper or Leonard Williams etc) than wanted Winston.

My recollection on a number of Bucs boards is that Winston was clearly the top choice. A few wanted Mariotta and a few wanted a non-QB. I don't know why the narrative has changed now to a 50-50 proposition. I don't think it was anywhere near that.

[Snake]

Who cares what the fans thought? The teams have access to far, far more information on every one of these guys. And they still whiffed.

People talk about mock draft consensus like that means anything. I don’t get it.

[Buc2]

Winston was definitely the top pick, but more people wanted another option (Mariota, Trade Down, even Amari Cooper or Leonard Williams etc) than wanted Winston.

My recollection on a number of Bucs boards is that Winston was clearly the top choice. A few wanted Mariotta and a few wanted a non-QB. I don't know why the narrative has changed now to a 50-50 proposition. I don't think it was anywhere near that.

I was in the trade down camp. But let’s be real. Even if that had occurred, we would have still been without a QB and would still have ended up whiffing on a QB on the next draft more than likely. lol

[GreatTimes]

My recollection on a number of Bucs boards is that Winston was clearly the top choice. A few wanted Mariotta and a few wanted a non-QB. I don't know why the narrative has changed now to a 50-50 proposition. I don't think it was anywhere near that.

I was in the trade down camp. But let’s be real. Even if that had occurred, we would have still been without a QB and would still have ended up whiffing on a QB on the next draft more than likely. lol

Most teams whiff of drafting QB's because most college QB's whiff when they get to the pros. Drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Very few QB's selected go on to have good careers.

[Buc2]

I was in the trade down camp. But let’s be real. Even if that had occurred, we would have still been without a QB and would still have ended up whiffing on a QB on the next draft more than likely. lol

Most teams whiff of drafting QB's because most college QB's whiff when they get to the pros. Drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Very few QB's selected go on to have good careers.

Absolutely! There is no arguing that point. That’s why we were so fortunate to have captured lightning in a bottle with Brady.

[Doctor]

I was in the trade down camp. But let’s be real. Even if that had occurred, we would have still been without a QB and would still have ended up whiffing on a QB on the next draft more than likely. lol

Most teams whiff of drafting QB's because most college QB's whiff when they get to the pros. Drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Very few QB's selected go on to have good careers.

Too nuance

[MJW]

I was in the trade down camp. But let’s be real. Even if that had occurred, we would have still been without a QB and would still have ended up whiffing on a QB on the next draft more than likely. lol

Most teams whiff of drafting QB's because most college QB's whiff when they get to the pros. Drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Very few QB's selected go on to have good careers.

Let's talk first round, recent history. I will use one totally subjective metric: do I think that team would use that pick on that QB again, without knowing about anything that happens after that pick. We'll go back 20 years of 1st Round QBs, 2003-2022. Ready?

2003 - Carson Palmer, Bengals. Yes, assuming they'd handle the situation a bit better down the road. Definitely not a bust.
2003 - Byron Leftwich, Jaguars. No.
2003 - Kyle Boller, Ravens. No, LOL.
2003 - Rex Grossman, Bears. No, despite the SB appearance.
2004 - Eli Manning, "Giants." Not technically his draft team, but still. Yes.
2004 - Philip Rivers, "Chargers." Again. Yes.
2004 - Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. Yes.
2004 - JP Losman, Bills. No.
2005 - Alex Smith, 49ers. He rebounded late, but gonna say No.
2005 - Aaron Rodgers, Packers. Pretty safe Yes.
2005 - Jason Campbell, Redskins. No, although he is a good trivia question.
2006 - Vince Young, Titans. The first of multiple "Nos" for this franchise.
2006 - Matt Leinart, Cardinals. Hard No.
2006 - Jay Cutler, Broncos. Safe No.
2007 - JaMarcus Russell. Raiders. The hardest of Nos.
2007 - Brady Quinn, Browns. No. See "Titans."
2008 - Matt Ryan, Falcons. Absolutely Yes.
2008 - Joe Flacco, Ravens. Another Yes.
2009 - Matt Stafford, Lions. Absolutely Yes.
2009 - Mark Sanchez, Jets. No.
2009 - Josh Freeman, Bucs. God I hope not.
2010 - Sam Bradford, Rams. No.
2010 - Tim Tebow, Broncos. Gonna say No.
2011 - Cam Newton, Panthers. Yes.
2011 - Jake Locker, Titans. Another swing and miss.
2011 - Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars. LOL.
2011 - Christian Ponder, Vikings. Still bizarre.
2012 - Andrew Luck, Colts. Absolutely, despite the short career.
2012 - Robert Griffin III, Redskins. No.
2012 - Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins. It's close, but No.
2012 - Brandon Weeden, Browns. It's not close, No.
2013 - EJ Manuel, Bills. Pretty safe No.
2014 - Blake Bortles, Jaguars. Despite Jason's Bortles Love, No.
2014 - Johnny Manziel, Browns. Ooof.
2014 - Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings. It might have been close, but the injury. No.
2015 - Jameis Winston, Buccaneers. Again, God I Hope Not.
2015 - Marcus Mariota, Titans. God, Titans Fans Hope Not.
2016 - Jared Goff, Rams. This is close, but SB + Extension say Yes - barely.
2016 - Carson Wentz, Eagles. Another close one, but No.
2016 - Paxton Lynch, Broncos. Safe No.
2017 - Mitchell Trubisky, Bears. No.
2017 - Patrick Mahomes, Chiefs. Probably, Yes.
2017 - DeShaun Watson, Texans. The toughest one yet. No. The massage stuff...
2018 - Baker Mayfield, Browns. Ooops.
2018 - Sam Darnold, Jets. Ooops.
2018 - Josh Allen, Bills. Yeah, probably.
2018 - Josh Rosen, Cardinals. I missed on this guy too, Cardinals.
2018 - Lamar Jackson, Ravens. Absolutely
2019 - Kyler Murray, Cardinals. This is a tough one as I type this, but yes.
2019 - Daniel Jones, Giants. A yes after this last season.
2019 - Dwayne Haskins, Commanders. RIP, but a safe No.
2020 - Joe Burrow, Bengals. Ya Think?
2020 - Tua, Dolphins. If not for that last concussion, yes. But no.
2020 - Justin Herbert, Chargers. Safe Yes.
2020 - Jordan Love, Packers. Almost impossible to say, but if they're willing to move on from A-Rod, I'll say Yes.
2021 - Trevor Lawrence, Jaguars. Absolutely.
2021 - Zach Wilson, Jets. Absolutely Not.
2021 - Trey Lance, 49ers. Right now, No.
2021 - Justin Fields, Bears. I'm going to say Yes by a hair.
2021 - Mac Jones, Patriots. Again, yes by a hair.
2022 - Kenny Pickett, Steelers. No reason not to say Yes.

Final Tally: 23 Yes, 38 No. But what I see with many of the "Nos" is teams reaching badly. And I don't mean in hindsight. Some of these guys were taken an entire round before their talent dictated and we said so at the time.

[Bootz]

I proceeded with caution when I read "totally subjective metric". That was an understatement. Looking at that blindly, I'd think at least 10 people had input. Like what's the parameters? It's all over the place.

[MJW]

I proceeded with caution when I read "totally subjective metric". That was an understatement. Looking at that blindly, I'd think at least 10 people had input. Like what's the parameters? It's all over the place.

There is no useful empirical standard that can be employed, so I 100% got ahead of the subjectivity employed. There's no "gotchya" here.

That said, "common sense" was easily accessible with probably 90+% of them. We don't actually need a metric to tell us the Jaguars regret drafting Blaine Gabbert, or the Chiefs would take Patrick Mahomes again. The more recent guys are harder for obvious reasons, but still...the Jaguars would take Lawrence again, the Jets would not take Wilson.

If there are any specifically you disagree with, I'd be happy to discuss the thought process, or at least provide the deciding factor for the ones I had to think about for more than three seconds.

[mdb1958]

Does anyone see any #1 #1's coming? I would hope not for us.

[Bootz]

I proceeded with caution when I read "totally subjective metric". That was an understatement. Looking at that blindly, I'd think at least 10 people had input. Like what's the parameters? It's all over the place.

There is no useful empirical standard that can be employed, so I 100% got ahead of the subjectivity employed. There's no "gotchya" here.

That said, "common sense" was easily accessible with probably 90+% of them. We don't actually need a metric to tell us the Jaguars regret drafting Blaine Gabbert, or the Chiefs would take Patrick Mahomes again. The more recent guys are harder for obvious reasons, but still...the Jaguars would take Lawrence again, the Jets would not take Wilson.

If there are any specifically you disagree with, I'd be happy to discuss the thought process, or at least provide the deciding factor for the ones I had to think about for more than three seconds.

Other than the package of picks the Lions got 12 years after drafting him, what reason would the Lions have to draft Stafford again? But Carson Wentz & Deshaun Watson are no's?? Rex Grossman, who got to the Super Bowl is a no but Daniel Jones is a solid yes?! And Kyler Murray is a tough yes?

It's all over the place.

[Moozician]

Most teams whiff of drafting QB's because most college QB's whiff when they get to the pros. Drafting a QB is a crap shoot. Very few QB's selected go on to have good careers.

Let's talk first round, recent history. I will use one totally subjective metric: do I think that team would use that pick on that QB again, without knowing about anything that happens after that pick. We'll go back 20 years of 1st Round QBs, 2003-2022. Ready?

2003 - Carson Palmer, Bengals. Yes, assuming they'd handle the situation a bit better down the road. Definitely not a bust.
2003 - Byron Leftwich, Jaguars. No.
2003 - Kyle Boller, Ravens. No, LOL.
2003 - Rex Grossman, Bears. No, despite the SB appearance.
2004 - Eli Manning, "Giants." Not technically his draft team, but still. Yes.
2004 - Philip Rivers, "Chargers." Again. Yes.
2004 - Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. Yes.
2004 - JP Losman, Bills. No.


Final Tally: 23 Yes, 38 No. But what I see with many of the "Nos" is teams reaching badly. And I don't mean in hindsight. Some of these guys were taken an entire round before their talent dictated and we said so at the time.

Basically, you are violating your owm premise here... What your list says is Qbs that were great v. busts.

[Doctor]

I mean just look at that list!

Even with your generous "yes" standard, 2/3rds of those perceived answers at QB were complete flops!

Imagine if your FO made your team worst intentionally in order to "get a higher draft pick" because this guy was supposed to be the cure all savior.

[CantonJester]

I will never understand the cynics' approach to fandom. To always see the worst-case scenario and occasionally be surprised by the successes. That's just an awful way to watch sports.

I don't see myself as cynical about this team but I have been a fan since '76 and have tempered expectations....

Historically speaking, we have shown a propensity to make the wrong choice more times than not. It is what it is

I will continue to watch and hope for the best

I mean, it’s right there in the site’s domain name, It’s a Buc’s Life.

[Grahamburn]

I mean just look at that list!

Even with your generous "yes" standard, 2/3rds of those perceived answers at QB were complete flops!

Imagine if your FO made your team worst intentionally in order to "get a higher draft pick" because this guy was supposed to be the cure all savior.

Only a handful of those guys were actively tanked for, and those that were looked to be worth it.

Not advocating for that type of approach from us. Just saying.

Winston was chalk after his frosh season. Then the accusations and a down year showed what he actually would be. But, if you’re tanking prior to the start of a season you’d better be sure.