Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[Cheb]

How many of our free agents do we encourage to test the market?

That's a good question. Given that we have negative dollars right now, probably all of them? I would presume that the GM is having quiet conversations with the guys he wants to keep, but at this stage those promises are empty.

More importantly, what cut and restructures and other gymnastics do we perform to get under the cap? We have to be under the cap at the start of the league new year, which is less than a month away on March 15th.

At the moment we have the least cap space in the NFL at -$55.5 million, nearly $11 million worst than the second place Saints at -$44.3 million.

These next few weeks will be interesting.

[MJW]

How many of our free agents do we encourage to test the market?

That's a good question. Given that we have negative dollars right now, probably all of them? I would presume that the GM is having quiet conversations with the guys he wants to keep, but at this stage those promises are empty.

More importantly, what cut and restructures and other gymnastics do we perform to get under the cap? We have to be under the cap at the start of the league new year, which is less than a month away on March 15th.

At the moment we have the least cap space in the NFL at -$55.5 million, nearly $11 million worst than the second place Saints at -$44.3 million.

These next few weeks will be interesting.

We make it clear to Dean that he's getting the tag if he doesn't re-up here.

Otherwise I don't know that we have the luxury to throw the kind of money around that would keep a guy like Anthony Nelson or Lavonte David from testing the market if he wants to.

[mdb1958]

Don't we have to raise our dead cap in order to get out of this?

[GreatTimes]

Well, try this as a case being made for Trask: Kyle Trask led the Gators to the most prolific passing offense (387.6 ypg) in the FBS while ranking seventh in total offense (509.8 ypg) and eighth in scoring offense (39.8 ppg). This against some of the best defenses in the NCAAF.
In 2020, quarterback Kyle Trask completed 301-of-437 attempts (68.9 pct.) for 4,283 yards, 43 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 180.0 efficiency rating en route to Heisman Trophy finalist and second-team All-America honors. The senior signal caller led the entire FBS in touchdown passes and ranked second in completions and passing yards.

Yeah but it’s the Gators. Most of the Gators quarterback doesn’t fare well in NFL

Ie:Steve Spurrier Shane Matthew, Danny Wuerffel, Rex Grossman, Tim Tebow and (Kyle Trask?)

They’re all prolific passer

Your argument that Trask can't succeed because other Florida QB's haven't succeeded is a fallacy of logic.

[Bootz]

That's a good question. Given that we have negative dollars right now, probably all of them? I would presume that the GM is having quiet conversations with the guys he wants to keep, but at this stage those promises are empty.

More importantly, what cut and restructures and other gymnastics do we perform to get under the cap? We have to be under the cap at the start of the league new year, which is less than a month away on March 15th.

At the moment we have the least cap space in the NFL at -$55.5 million, nearly $11 million worst than the second place Saints at -$44.3 million.

These next few weeks will be interesting.

We make it clear to Dean that he's getting the tag if he doesn't re-up here.

Otherwise I don't know that we have the luxury to throw the kind of money around that would keep a guy like Anthony Nelson or Lavonte David from testing the market if he wants to.

Just me perhaps, but Jamel Dean isn't irreplaceable. 4 years in and I've seen him make a play on a ball downfield 1 time. He still commits the most obvious, egregious DPI penalties in the league. He still has no interest in being very physical.

You don't tag a corner unless he is of the shutdown variety and that ain't Jamel Dean. I offer him a fair deal. Otherwise thanks for the comp pick next season.

[Bootz]

This shouldn't be this hard.

Most of what you're referring to is based around what the team did and what he did in college. You ask me what makes Jamel Dean, a 3rd round pick, a potentially good corner, I'd say his great size and elite speed and closing ability.

It's telling that people can't point to Trask's attributes or skills as reasons why we should be optimistic. It tells me that people know deep down he ain't the answer but they are afraid to say so. Anthony Richardson might be a worse prospect that Trask but at least his apologists can point to his great athletic ability and big arm as reasons to be optimistic.

TRASK AINT IT.

I see that your ability to look up and then read basic information is at an all-time low. But it's Monday and I'm feeling helpful. Here's the meat-and-taters from his NFL.com draft profile:

Overview:
Trask clearly has the arm strength, touch and placement to wear out one-on-one coverage if he has good protection and above-average players around him, but he's not going to elevate an offense with his talent alone. He's very good at finding his throwing platform and can deliver deep throws with outstanding touch. He needs to improve his eye work to create more opportunities by moving safeties around. Trask is clearly a skilled passer, but it's hard to find evidence of him being able to play chess at this point against what NFL defenses are likely to show him.

Strengths:
* Prototypical size to stand tall and fire from the pocket
* Made substantial production gains across the board in 2020.
* Enabled team to open up game plan in 2020.
* Became the first FBS quarterback in 15 years to post three or more TD passes in nine consecutive games.
* Stepped up against Alabama in SEC Championship Game.
* Able to pump and reset against baiting coverage.
* Feels edge pressure and climbs to free space in pocket.
* Gets back into passing platform when moving outside the pocket.
* Arm strength to whip field-side deep outs with no issues.
* Tardy safeties will find a willing challenger over the top.
* Talented downfield passer with touch and accuracy.
* Can attack one-on-ones and place deep throw where it needs to go.
* Fairly accurate even when feet are not set

Weaknesses:
Pocket setup is slower and labored.
Footwork gets sloppy and bouncy inside pocket.
Needs to do better at recalibrating optimal targets post-snap.
Will miss blitz recognition and basic reads at times.
Threw into bracketed coverage multiple times against LSU.
Deliberate release will not tolerate slow reads through progressions.
Below-average functional mobility to extend the play.
Unlikely to improvise and beat defense if he's not well-protected.
Appeared to favor left knee, affecting follow-through.
Runs targets into traffic and collisions with late-ball delivery.

Source: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kyle-tras ... 69635ccf01

Okay Cheb, I hear you say, but reading is for nerds. Well then look at this little gem one of my engineers sent me the other day:



There's things to like here. Trask feels the pressure, navigates away from it, and then drops an absolute dime on the move with the throw going 35-40 yards. Kyle makes a smart read and throws an accurate catchable ball. What else do you want him to do, bring you a hotdog in the stands?

Your alarmist takes grow wearisome.

This I can appreciate honestly, even with your unnecessary vitriol.

You're quite literally the ONLY person who has vouched for Trask's skills and abilities and given clear reasons why you believe we should be optimistic for him going forward.

[Doctor]

Dude, plenty of people have supported Trask since he was drafted and have gone over as to why.
By the same token plenty have hated him. Mostly making stuff up like "he's a slow learner", because he doesn't never been gifted the starting job, despite every report to the opposite.


There is nothing new or groundbreaking someone can tell you today that you haven't already heard and disregarded.

[Phantom]

Yeah but it’s the Gators. Most of the Gators quarterback doesn’t fare well in NFL

Ie:Steve Spurrier Shane Matthew, Danny Wuerffel, Rex Grossman, Tim Tebow and (Kyle Trask?)

They’re all prolific passer

Your argument that Trask can't succeed because other Florida QB's haven't succeeded is a fallacy of logic.

Trask ain’t it. Get over it


Just like you predicted Gronk and Brady to Colts. Hilarious

[Snake]

He couldn’t beat out Gabbert for the backup job and spent a year reinventing his mechanics.

Those things generally don’t bode well. Gabbert sucks a dick and mechanics usually regress under live fire.

[Bootz]

He couldn’t beat out Gabbert for the backup job and spent a year reinventing his mechanics.

Those things generally don’t bode well. Gabbert sucks a dick and mechanics usually regress under live fire.

Speaking of mechanics and Florida QBs, remember when Tebow's mechanics underwent reconstruction? In practice he looked like a new QB but as soon as he was under live fire he reverted back to that slow, windup throwing motion.

[acmillis]

He couldn’t beat out Gabbert for the backup job and spent a year reinventing his mechanics.

Those things generally don’t bode well. Gabbert sucks a dick and mechanics usually regress under live fire.

Speaking of mechanics and Florida QBs, remember when Tebow's mechanics underwent reconstruction? In practice he looked like a new QB but as soon as he was under live fire he reverted back to that slow, windup throwing motion.

What does Tebow have to do with Trask?

[Grahamburn]

He couldn’t beat out Gabbert for the backup job and spent a year reinventing his mechanics.

Those things generally don’t bode well. Gabbert sucks a dick and mechanics usually regress under live fire.

Has there ever been any evidence that there was an actual competition for that job?

[Snake]

He couldn’t beat out Gabbert for the backup job and spent a year reinventing his mechanics.

Those things generally don’t bode well. Gabbert sucks a dick and mechanics usually regress under live fire.

Has there ever been any evidence that there was an actual competition for that job?

If there wasn’t an actual and ongoing competition, it just means the organization is fucked up.

[Grahamburn]

Has there ever been any evidence that there was an actual competition for that job?

If there wasn’t an actual and ongoing competition, it just means the organization is fucked up.

If Tom Brady (or Arians/Leftwich) vouched for Gabbert and basically said, "I appreciate Blaine and his insight/experience on the sidelines. He's like a second pair of eyes for me. I want him to be the backup." You think the organization would tell them no?

[Grahamburn]

I just don't recall ever hearing anything like "It's an open competition for the backup job." It was always Blaine's. I don't know how anyone can be 100% sure that decision is an indictment of Trask's ability for us now.

[Sdbucs]

I just don't recall ever hearing anything like "It's an open competition for the backup job." It was always Blaine's. I don't know how anyone can be 100% sure that decision is an indictment of Trask's ability for us now.

Exactly. It's entirely an assumption that Trask being #3 was due to his lack of talent/ability to win out the #2 spot.

All we can do is speculate on the matter and that's why it's stupid to write him off over it.

[Bootz]

If there wasn’t an actual and ongoing competition, it just means the organization is fucked up.

If Tom Brady (or Arians/Leftwich) vouched for Gabbert and basically said, "I appreciate Blaine and his insight/experience on the sidelines. He's like a second pair of eyes for me. I want him to be the backup." You think the organization would tell them no?

Well the organization didn't tell him no to taking 2 weeks off or to going to his former teams' owners' wedding and not traveling with the team to an away game. So it's probable they did and would've granted this request. But to @Snake's point, that points to a fucked up organization.

[13F11B]

Make a case that he is not. Annnnnd go.

He has limited to no mobility. Doesn't throw a very accurate or catchable ball. Couldn't beat out a subpar journeyman for the backup position.

Now you make a case on the contrary. Wait, if you could then you would've done so instead of deflecting.

I was not deflecting. I was asking for someone to clarify their position on why he was not. You did that. That should have been done in the first place.

I did not watch Trask play in college. He has had no real time playing time with the Buccaneers. I choose to keep an open mind.

However, now that you have narrowed down the scope of your areas of concern we can discuss these things.

1) Mobility. Brady was not mobile and did very well. While Mobility is always good it is not necessary. His college scouting reports noted that he has excellent pocket presence.
2) Not accurate? His 68.9 completion percentage in 2020 begs to differ with that.
3) His college scouting reports all said he throws a very catchable ball. You are the first person I have heard that complained about this issue.

The one knock I heard is that he does not have a cannon for an arm.

I am still in the mind of let the young man play and see what happens.

Heck, when I read the scouting reports for Brock Purdy and compare it to Kyle Trask it is Trask who comes out WAY ahead. Purdy was made to sound more limited with arm strength and the ability to scramble.

[Bootz]

New RBs coach.

[Buc2]

He has limited to no mobility. Doesn't throw a very accurate or catchable ball. Couldn't beat out a subpar journeyman for the backup position.

Now you make a case on the contrary. Wait, if you could then you would've done so instead of deflecting.

I was not deflecting. I was asking for someone to clarify their position on why he was not. You did that. That should have been done in the first place.

I did not watch Trask play in college. He has had no real time playing time with the Buccaneers. I choose to keep an open mind.

However, now that you have narrowed down the scope of your areas of concern we can discuss these things.

1) Mobility. Brady was not mobile and did very well. While Mobility is always good it is not necessary. His college scouting reports noted that he has excellent pocket presence.
2) Not accurate? His 68.9 completion percentage in 2020 begs to differ with that.
3) His college scouting reports all said he throws a very catchable ball. You are the first person I have heard that complained about this issue.

The one knock I heard is that he does not have a cannon for an arm.

I am still in the mind of let the young man play and see what happens.

Heck, when I read the scouting reports for Brock Purdy and compare it to Kyle Trask it is Trask who comes out WAY ahead. Purdy was made to sound more limited with arm strength and the ability to scramble.

All the scouting reports are wrong. /s

[Snake]

There’s a lot that goes into quarterbacking. Most importantly, processing speed, ability to feel and evade pocket pressure as one continues to read a defense post-snap.

Arm strength, accuracy, and overall mobility can cover for deficiencies with the above. They can also elevate one’s game in conjunction with the above.

Being immobile or slow, having average arm-strength, just mean you have to be that much better at other things. It certainly makes it harder to be elite as a QB.

[Bootz]

[Doctor]

I just don't recall ever hearing anything like "It's an open competition for the backup job." It was always Blaine's. I don't know how anyone can be 100% sure that decision is an indictment of Trask's ability for us now.

Exactly. It's entirely an assumption that Trask being #3 was due to his lack of talent/ability to win out the #2 spot.

All we can do is speculate on the matter and that's why it's stupid to write him off over it.

No, no, no. Clearly you need to play more Madden and learn how to run an organization like Snake.

[MJW]

How about everyone just relax? The next season is going to be a disaster no matter who the QB is. Even the people claiming to not know this actually know this. Stop worrying about who's driving the bus. It's already run through the guardrail.

[Grahamburn]

If Tom Brady (or Arians/Leftwich) vouched for Gabbert and basically said, "I appreciate Blaine and his insight/experience on the sidelines. He's like a second pair of eyes for me. I want him to be the backup." You think the organization would tell them no?

Well the organization didn't tell him no to taking 2 weeks off or to going to his former teams' owners' wedding and not traveling with the team to an away game. So it's probable they did and would've granted this request. But to @Snake's point, that points to a fucked up organization.

In what world does giving Tom Brady what he wants point to a poorly run organization? He’d just given them a Super Bowl. You think they’re going to tell him no?

[Primeminister]

[Bootz]

I honestly had never heard of Thad Lewis before today. Didn't even know he was on our staff since 2021.

[Bootz]

Missed this one. We hired a new WR coach last week. 31 years old.

[Phantom]

I honestly had never heard of Thad Lewis before today. Didn't even know he was on our staff since 2021.

Was he the quarterback from 90s?

Edit: nvm.. the tweet answered my question

[Kona]

How about everyone just relax? The next season is going to be a disaster no matter who the QB is. Even the people claiming to not know this actually know this. Stop worrying about who's driving the bus. It's already run through the guardrail.

I choose to enjoy the fireworks (and removal of the Krewe’s nest behind my section, good God those were awful).

[Doctor]

I absolutely love that we kept Thad Lewis. The move from WR coach to QB coach mirrors Canales. I expect him to be a huge part of game planning.

[BucsNBills]

What do you guys honestly think Evans trade value is currently?

[Snake]

What do you guys honestly think Evans trade value is currently?

Always hard to determine.

Some factors:

>ME13 be 30 next season. Lots of mileage. Some GMs care, some don’t. He’s prone to ticky tack injuries.

>Bucs eat a $21m cap hit in 2023 if he’s traded before 6/1/23. It breaks into $9m in 2023 and $12m in 2024 if he’s traded post-6/1/2023.

>he has 3 void years from 2024-2026.

>For all intents and purposes, he’s a UFA after this season and will need a new contract regardless if he’s here or traded elsewhere. Aka less team control and less value.

[acmillis]

A desperate team would give us a 2, but it makes no sense to move him because of the cap issue he presents by not being on this team.

[Naismith]

I think you might get a second or something like a third and a fifth. I’d rather get 2024 picks so maybe you get a premium for deferring the picks.