Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

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real bucs fan
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by real bucs fan »

Snake wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:04 pm I’d bet about tree fiddy this draft will be some combination of RB, OL, and DB with the Bucs first 3 picks.

Maybe swap out a secondary player for a WR, depending.
I’d be surprised if we took a RB in round 1. Obviously Bijan would be tough to pass on at 19, but think he’s going top 10.

Also I think the message is clear that White is going to be the man. Think we use a Day 3 pick on the position for depth but that it. I’d be pretty surprised if we took one in the first three picks.

Think this draft will be about OL and defence.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Bootz »

@Phantom That is unquestionably the best thing you've ever posted on any version of this board. By far!
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Digital_Damage »

Next season is really shaping up to be the massive shit sandwich I thought it would be. Irritable Bowles Syndrome doing everything he can with our shit cap to make sure the defense is not to blame for the impending gangbang the division is about to force on us.

They can't even bother to make it an exciting shit show. Bucball is back.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by BucsNBills »

We should feel lucky that neither Evans or Godwin have requested a trade yet. Evans has like a couple years of good play left and he's about to burn one of those years on this roster with Mayfield or Trash throwing him the ball. And Godwin is just setting a prime year of his career on fire.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by mdb1958 »

What is up with nflsavant.com, did it have some kind of bug or something.
I can no longer access it.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

BucsNBills wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:04 am Unfortunately Licht is extremely predictable when it comes to the draft as he almost exclusively chases need so you can accurately guess who we'll draft by looking at draft sites and seeing what they list as a need for the team.

He also locks onto players and doesn't consider the majority draft consensus on them so he will often reach for a player(see jts, Logan Hall, Trash).

Personally I would try to use at least our first two picks on players that could push a position group on the team towards elite status. Maybe try to establish a clear identity for the team.

I have a short list of players I'd like but I have no real hope of Licht picking them so they're not even worth mentioning.
Wait... what?
Are you watching some alternative universe Bucs? We've gotten lucky a few times where BPA was also a huge need, but that's less than half the time. Licht has made it clear the draft is where you find your studs. He's also fantastic at understanding his coaches, their goals and schemes, and getting them players that match up best for what we want to do.

We say it every free agency period how we're "now not pigeonholed" and free to take the best guy. Which we do. But also, JL did do a lot of time in NE and really doesn't give a damn about other people's boards. If they really like a guy and he's probably not going to be there when it spins back around, they take him. They like who they like.

"Our philosophy is going to be to build through the draft. That's where we find our stars. That's where we find the next generation. But also in the short term and long term we're going to supplement our roster through free agency. But we're going to look for value. We're going to spend wisely."
- Jason Licht 2014

Let's Review

2014 Mike Evans- Biggest needs was QB, pass rush, and guard. Manziel Mania was in full swing and Anthony Barr has his followers. We ended up taking BPA Mike Evans, who no one was calling, yet would go on to be the greatest WR in Bucs history.

2015 Jameis Winston- Since he won the National Championship and Heisman he was one of three guys (Luck, Clowney) to be the locked #1 overall pick from over a year out. It was Winless for Winston. So yeah, BPA and obvious need.

2016 Vernon Hargreaves- Here's the second time need fit BPA. We were in need of a CB after trading Revis. At the same time, VH3 was very much a top 10 guy in his own right, often mocked early. I had him on the top of my board too, hoping he could be a twitchy INT machine in Lovie's Tampa 2 if he ever got McCoy help to rush the passer with just four like in the old days... spoiler, none of that happened.

2017 O. J. Howard- Here is a great example of when BPA burned us. A case of a guy we liked what we saw but probably didn't deep dive into thinking he'd be long gone. When he fell he was clear BPA. Exciting visions of him in DK's four verticals. Total bust. Cook was the BPA and JL knows it. Safety was by far the biggest need, but RB wasn't far behind.

2018 Vita Vea- Another one where everyone was clamoring for Derwin James to fill that need at safety. Which he would've. But JL is a simp for hog mollies having played in the trenches himself. Smashed BPA.

2019 Devin White- The BPA of BPAs doesn't care that you don't draft off ball LBs this high. Ironically the next BPA would've fit the need/bpa combo in edge Josh Allen. Either way, here is another example of getting a guy who can be a star in your coach's system.

2020 Tristan Wirfs- An all-star class of OTs (not unlike this class), you could swap around the top guys on any board and it would've been valid. Nonetheless, true to form, JL's pick was the physical specimen in the trench. Which also happened to be our biggest need as well. That makes three times we got a lucky break.

2021 Joe Tryon-Shoyinka- We really didn't have many needs going into this draft, but you can never have too many pass rushers. Either way, I think this is an example of a guy they just crushed on who they knew wouldn't be there later.

2022 Logan Hall- Once again safety was the biggest need and Lewis Cine was right there. Yet we trade back and get another guy up front even though we still have Gholston, Vea, and Hicks to start. But OBP doesn't believe in rookie saviors, they believe in coaching and development. Get the talent early and coach it up.

2023- You're in luck, this could be a year we get a lucky break. My BPA shortlist holds Bijan, Brian Branch, and the OT class. All of those would also fill huge needs.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by real bucs fan »

I called Mike Evans in a legendary thread fyi 😂
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Snake »

Doctor is truly an awful poster. So many words, so many excuses for every single thing.

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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Bootz »

Most of those picks were pegged by multiple people before the respective drafts. Evans, Winston, Hargreaves, Howard most definitely. I don't think many felt we'd target Vea because we had McCoy and still ran a 4-3 front. But for the most part Licht is pretty predictable in the draft.

Other players we had pegged include Austin Sefarian-Jenkins, Ali Marpet, Noah Spence, Chris Godwin, and the biggest of all.....ROBERTO AGUAYO.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Backside »

Devin White was not BPA at all. That was a plugging of the Kwon Alexander hole.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

real bucs fan wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:29 pm I called Mike Evans in a legendary thread fyi 😂
My bad rbf! :mrgreen:

Great call. I remember there were a few Sammy Watkins truthers too.

What excuses Snake? I'm just explaining how JL's BPA philosophy has played out, both for the good and bad.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Obsolete »

Backside wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:00 pm That was a plugging of the Kwon Alexander hole.
OOC
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

Backside wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:00 pm Devin White was not BPA at all. That was a plugging of the Kwon Alexander hole.
He was on the adults board.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Snake »

For people who are obsessed with guys who run in straight lines really fast, White was an elite prospect.

There were plenty of college film breakdowns showing his bad instincts and poor technique. Stuff he still demonstrates every single game.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Backside »

Doctor wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:20 pm
Backside wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:00 pm Devin White was not BPA at all. That was a plugging of the Kwon Alexander hole.
He was on the incorrect board.
I’m sure he was.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by mdb1958 »

Since I don't know, just how good is Nolan Smith gonna be?
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

I like Nolan Smith. He's one of my contingencies guys if there's a run on tackle and BJ, BB go early.

He's got the elite athletism we seem to target, though we usually like size to match and he's a little small. However, he's got a nasty first step and can really bend around the outside. With Vea push up the middle he can be a great piece to compliment the front. McDonald, Tuli, and Ojulari are other guys I like.

I would absolutely love any of these guys in Day 2 but this could be one of those situations we feel they are early Day 2 guys and we just bite the bullet early to secure the one we like best.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by mdb1958 »

Anyone know if Logan Ryan is all healed up now? I got a feeling him and Keanu Neal both might get neglected and I wonder if we want to cheaply extend their career.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Cheb »

mdb1958 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:03 pm Since I don't know, just how good is Nolan Smith gonna be?
I dunno man. On paper I like him, but then I watch him play and he certainly doesn't play like a first round talent.

Look it this motherfucker versus Missouri. #4 on defense.



On his sack, it was a bad snap and he was unblocked. I wasn't impressed. On damn near every snap, dude looks like a JAG.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Kona »

With our signings we’re definitely leaning OL round 1. Good thing is it’s a great draft for it.
Paris Johnson, Peter Skroniski, Dawand Jones, Anton Harrison, Broderick Jones, Darnell Wright could all be stellar picks for us long term.

That being said Brian Branch would look great in pewter next to AWJ
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

I agree on all counts. We could walk away with Branch at 19 and one of those guys still there in the 2nd.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Phantom »

I had to share this incredible Lars Tate flip vids

I’ve never seen this before.. wayyyy before my time

Pretty cool


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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by mdb1958 »

What part of combine testing has made LB Dorian Williams drop like a hot rock?
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by BucsNBills »

Cheb wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:12 pm
mdb1958 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:03 pm Since I don't know, just how good is Nolan Smith gonna be?
I dunno man. On paper I like him, but then I watch him play and he certainly doesn't play like a first round talent.

Look it this motherfucker versus Missouri. #4 on defense.



On his sack, it was a bad snap and he was unblocked. I wasn't impressed. On damn near every snap, dude looks like a JAG.
Yeah I'm not sold on Smith either. I prefer Myles Murphy personally as he has the size and power needed to compliment the more speed oriented rushers we have already in Shaq and JTS. I think he'll be a great long term pass rusher as her builds his craft and improves his technique. My biggest concern for Murphy though is his hand size... He had like 8.5" hands... Which are baby hands. Not sure how detrimental that will be for him but they certainly can't help him.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

The Edge class is a lot like the CB class, and has a very strong second tier though everyone has their issues.

McDonald and Smith are a little on the lighter side at 240lb, but they have room to add weight. Fantastic speed to bend the edge and they had a 22$ and 25% win rate respectively. Nolan Smith uses his hands and short area quickness well to shed blocks and is fantastic at sniffing out and stopping the run, which we know we value.

Ojulari is my #2 behind Will Anderson. Love this kid.

LVN, Murphy, and Wilson give me concerns.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by mdb1958 »

Last year I got the distinct feeling that disgruntled move on from players sang about every detail of our offensive and defensive packages - all three years of trying to get our players to perfect it tarnished.

So, kinda excited knowing they gotta start all over figuring us out.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by BucsNBills »

I hope we make a trade for Jonah Williams soon. Maybe like a 5th this year and next for him. Make his money work this year and see what happens. Otherwise you may as well not even think about out 1st round pick in the draft since it will be the most boring, predictable, and uninspired pick we could make in Anton Harrison.

I'd rather not go info the first pigeonholed into taking a tackle which is only a need because of cutting Smith.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Doctor »

Amazing how everyone who yelled how anyone is better than Smith is now worried about the hole left behind.
In our previous power scheme I'd agree, but we're moving to a different system. Wirfs to the left and we have quite a few guys who have played plenty of tackle and would fit this system well on the outside. I don't think we're as pingeonholed as some may think.

With that said it's a nice OT class and you know JL is getting hot and bothered scouting them. It's very likely we take one, maybe even move up for one again like we did Wirfs. There's no one I trust more with OL evaluation than Licht.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by _MB_ »

Doctor wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:49 am Amazing how everyone who yelled how anyone is better than Smith is now worried about the hole left behind.
In our previous power scheme I'd agree, but we're moving to a different system. Wirfs to the left and we have quite a few guys who have played plenty of tackle and would fit this system well on the outside. I don't think we're as pingeonholed as some may think.

With that said it's a nice OT class and you know JL is getting hot and bothered scouting them. It's very likely we take one, maybe even move up for one again like we did Wirfs. There's no one I trust more with OL evaluation than Licht.
I'm fine with a low mileage vet at RT this season if Goedeke doesn't want it. I'd rather have a shiny, new beast at guard that wants to play between Wirfs and Jensen.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by mdb1958 »

_MB_ wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:01 pm
Doctor wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:49 am Amazing how everyone who yelled how anyone is better than Smith is now worried about the hole left behind.
In our previous power scheme I'd agree, but we're moving to a different system. Wirfs to the left and we have quite a few guys who have played plenty of tackle and would fit this system well on the outside. I don't think we're as pingeonholed as some may think.

With that said it's a nice OT class and you know JL is getting hot and bothered scouting them. It's very likely we take one, maybe even move up for one again like we did Wirfs. There's no one I trust more with OL evaluation than Licht.
I'm fine with a low mileage vet at RT this season if Goedeke doesn't want it. I'd rather have a shiny, new beast at guard that wants to play between Wirfs and Jensen.


We made our guards veterans last year and their better than most of them coming out.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Bootz »

mdb1958 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:12 pm
_MB_ wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:01 pm
I'm fine with a low mileage vet at RT this season if Goedeke doesn't want it. I'd rather have a shiny, new beast at guard that wants to play between Wirfs and Jensen.


We made our guards veterans last year and their better than most of them coming out.
You're not wrong. The guard play did improve. However Mason is gone now so we'll need to add talent there.

I wouldn't be mad at Torrence in the 1st.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by Buc2 »

mdb1958 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:12 pm
_MB_ wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:01 pm
I'm fine with a low mileage vet at RT this season if Goedeke doesn't want it. I'd rather have a shiny, new beast at guard that wants to play between Wirfs and Jensen.


We made our guards veterans last year and their better than most of them coming out.
On the surface, that is quite true. However, one must weigh the future potential of the rookie vs the "new" vet when deciding which direction to go. Just being a vet doesn't mean they are the better choice going forward.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by _MB_ »

mdb1958 wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:12 pm
_MB_ wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:01 pm
I'm fine with a low mileage vet at RT this season if Goedeke doesn't want it. I'd rather have a shiny, new beast at guard that wants to play between Wirfs and Jensen.


We made our guards veterans last year and their better than most of them coming out.
A lot of things about last year are better.

This is about getting everything you can out of a roster for cheap. Which is supposed to be how year one of a "true rebuild" is supposedly done in the first place.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by BucsNBills »

Given that we're clearly trying to win this year, I'm not sure why we haven't brought in Calais Campbell for at least a visit. Yes he's older, but he's basically the perfect 5 tech and outplayed everyone on our dline last year with a 77 grade, including Vea. Logan Hall grades to a miserable 35 which is worse than the most jaggiest of jags.

Sign him to 1 year sealy, maybe 8 or 9 mil, throw 4 void years on, and fill a pretty huge void on the defense.

And no, before you reply, his cap hit down the road will never effect any decisions we have to make. It's an irrelevant amount of money that shouldn't even be considered.
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Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

Post by acmillis »

BucsNBills wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 8:09 am Given that we're clearly trying to win this year, I'm not sure why we haven't brought in Calais Campbell for at least a visit. Yes he's older, but he's basically the perfect 5 tech and outplayed everyone on our dline last year with a 77 grade, including Vea. Logan Hall grades to a miserable 35 which is worse than the most jaggiest of jags.

Sign him to 1 year sealy, maybe 8 or 9 mil, throw 4 void years on, and fill a pretty huge void on the defense.

And no, before you reply, his cap hit down the road will never effect any decisions we have to make. It's an irrelevant amount of money that shouldn't even be considered.
You’ve suggested this already and it still makes no sense for this team, this year. Please stop.
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