Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[mdb1958]

@Moozician I'm thinking more along the lines of when he gets picked

[Miller4Prez64]

I’m just not sure I’m down for what OBP is trying to do right now. Which is to cut spending on offense and direct it to Todd Bowles’ defense and keeping it in tact. Lavonte is one thing, but Dean and Nelson are replaceable and I don’t think bringing them back on more expensive deals does much for us short or long term. Especially when you look at how the money Nelson got essentially matches up with the cap savings earned by trading Shaq Mason for close to nothing. Our coaches and front office basically decided that having a rotational defensive lineman is more important than a quality offensive lineman, and I don’t agree with that.

Our secondary is starting to get expensive and while these guys can play, only Antoine is actually a Pro Bowl caliber player and our secondary struggles to force turnovers, should we be paying so much to keep it all together when we now have a shaky QB situation? This offseason is all about Bowles and his defense, and it’s why we probably should have excused him with Leftwich. We are giving money to his boys instead of making the best decisions for our team in the short and long term. If winning now was the move, then addressing the OL needed to be priority over retaining Dean/Nelson. If not, then we are just better off with cap savings and 2024 comp picks. It really doesn’t feel like we are setting ourselves up to win this year or long term with these moves and it’s a bit of an uneasy feeling.

[Bootz]

I’m just not sure I’m down for what OBP is trying to do right now. Which is to cut spending on offense and direct it to Todd Bowles’ defense and keeping it in tact. Lavonte is one thing, but Dean and Nelson are replaceable and I don’t think bringing them back on more expensive deals does much for us short or long term. Especially when you look at how the money Nelson got essentially matches up with the cap savings earned by trading Shaq Mason for close to nothing. Our coaches and front office basically decided that having a rotational defensive lineman is more important than a quality offensive lineman, and I don’t agree with that.

Our secondary is starting to get expensive and while these guys can play, only Antoine is actually a Pro Bowl caliber player and our secondary struggles to force turnovers, should we be paying so much to keep it all together when we now have a shaky QB situation? This offseason is all about Bowles and his defense, and it’s why we probably should have excused him with Leftwich. We are giving money to his boys instead of making the best decisions for our team in the short and long term. If winning now was the move, then addressing the OL needed to be priority over retaining Dean/Nelson. If not, then we are just better off with cap savings and 2024 comp picks. It really doesn’t feel like we are setting ourselves up to win this year or long term with these moves and it’s a bit of an uneasy feeling.

I can tell you what they aren't trying to do. They are not trying to win.

[Snake]

The plan is to bolster the defense and hope that the offense is better by virtue of the running the ball much better and limiting turnovers as much as humanly possible.

I do expect them to draft a running back in the first three rounds. If not the first two.

You’re gonna hear a lot of reports in TC about Baker Mayfield “protecting the ball better.” And the team running an offense that “gets him back to his roots” a la Oklahoma.

[Doctor]

I barely trust Dean to cover those guys.

Prior to last season I would have agreed with you, but Dean has elevated his game at least to my eye, and the advanced metrics seem to back that up. Dude's a good corner, right up there with Davis.

Now if we get a reliable pass rush going to speed up the routes they are facing, we will be really cooking with gas.

This. It hasn't always been there but if there has been one group to show excellent development year over years it's our DBs. Jordan Whitehead could be a cap casualty during the second wave FA. Mike Edwards hasn't signed elsewhere yet either. If the gravediggers can get some help from the pass rush and their offense not leaving them out there all day, they can go back to being what wins us games.

[Miller4Prez64]

The plan is to bolster the defense and hope that the offense is better by virtue of the running the ball much better and limiting turnovers as much as humanly possible.

I do expect them to draft a running back in the first three rounds. If not the first two.

You’re gonna hear a lot of reports in TC about Baker Mayfield “protecting the ball better.” And the team running an offense that “gets him back to his roots” a la Oklahoma.

How do we run the ball better though with the current state of our o-line? If that were the case, I’d rather have kept Mason and let Nelson walk so we don’t have an extra position on the o-line to shore up in the draft.

Also, we need to find ways to create more turnovers on defense. I’m not sure handing out pay raises to our stone handed secondary is the way to do that.

[Bootz]

The plan is to bolster the defense and hope that the offense is better by virtue of the running the ball much better and limiting turnovers as much as humanly possible.

I do expect them to draft a running back in the first three rounds. If not the first two.

You’re gonna hear a lot of reports in TC about Baker Mayfield “protecting the ball better.” And the team running an offense that “gets him back to his roots” a la Oklahoma.

This is sort of vague and beats around the bush. Do you expect this "plan" to help us contend for a championship?

[Bootz]

I barely trust Dean to cover those guys.

Prior to last season I would have agreed with you, but Dean has elevated his game at least to my eye, and the advanced metrics seem to back that up. Dude's a good corner, right up there with Davis.

Now if we get a reliable pass rush going to speed up the routes they are facing, we will be really cooking with gas.

Wait, you mean a guy overachieved on his contract year? Good thing that's the 1st time we've ever seen that....

[Snake]

The plan is to bolster the defense and hope that the offense is better by virtue of the running the ball much better and limiting turnovers as much as humanly possible.

I do expect them to draft a running back in the first three rounds. If not the first two.

You’re gonna hear a lot of reports in TC about Baker Mayfield “protecting the ball better.” And the team running an offense that “gets him back to his roots” a la Oklahoma.

This is sort of vague and beats around the bush. Do you expect this "plan" to help us contend for a championship?

Hell no. I don’t see that, and the FO probably doesn’t either. But we won’t hear anything else.

[Doctor]

So to be clear... every team that just signed a QB this offseason are a bunch of morons?

If you don't have Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, etc.... well then you should all just be tanking for Caleb right?

[Moozician]

Prior to last season I would have agreed with you, but Dean has elevated his game at least to my eye, and the advanced metrics seem to back that up. Dude's a good corner, right up there with Davis.

Now if we get a reliable pass rush going to speed up the routes they are facing, we will be really cooking with gas.

This. It hasn't always been there but if there has been one group to show excellent development year over years it's our DBs. Jordan Whitehead could be a cap casualty during the second wave FA. Mike Edwards hasn't signed elsewhere yet either. If the gravediggers can get some help from the pass rush and their offense not leaving them out there all day, they can go back to being what wins us games.

Isn't Jordan Whitehead with the Jets?

[Doctor]

Final year, can save $7M with only $3M dead. He may be in the Rodgers deal.

[Bootz]

So to be clear... every team that just signed a QB this offseason are a bunch of morons?

If you don't have Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, etc.... well then you should all just be tanking for Caleb right?

Morons? Debatable.

Contending for a championship? Not even thinking about it. There's a reason those guys reach free agency and guys like the ones you mentioned don't, except Lamar Jackson. And even then the Ravens had to tag him

[Bootz]

This is sort of vague and beats around the bush. Do you expect this "plan" to help us contend for a championship?

Hell no. I don’t see that, and the FO probably doesn’t either. But we won’t hear anything else.

Exactly. You can bolster the defense all you want. Maybe it'll be the difference between us going 7-10 instead of 2-15.

At the end of the day, it's painfully clear that we're building a loser.

[Miller4Prez64]

It’s why we were probably better off shedding salary and adding picks this year and setting ourselves up better down the line. I just don’t see how we’ve set ourselves up to win now or in the future, we are just paying Bowles’ boys and going hyper cheap on offense.

[Snake]

The team isn’t looking to deliberately be a cellar dweller. Even if that ends up happening (I don’t see it. Bad division, roster has too much talent). And Bowles isn’t in a position to be really bad for another year. They’d be drafting a highly touted QB for another coach.

[Deja Entendu]

Fair enough. Things can change quickly in the NFL.

The Eagles looked inept against us in the playoffs in 2021 and were in the Super Bowl in 2022. If they would have taken the "trade everyone of value" approach instead of trying to retain/add talent that would not have been the case.

Bowles' defense is usually pretty good. Him being able to retain his guys gives us hope that we can compete. Maybe a fresh look on offense can be the difference to getting into the playoffs again in an NFC that is fairly wide open if you think about it.

There's a large majority of QBs and other great players in this league that were not drafted in the top 5. You don't have to tank to get them.

The Eagles actually had in place what I'm suggesting, though. They had three first round picks last year so they had the ammo to try to acquire a QB, but Hurts showed them enough to punt one of those firsts to 2023 and see if he could be the QB of the future and if not, they had the ability to move up and replace him. If Hurts hadn't shown as much improvement as he did, they would have been able to move up.

The Bucs could have put them in a similar position with their own second round QB, though obviously one that hasn't shown anything on the field like Hurts had prior to last year. If they accumulated 2024 draft assets and then played Trask this year, the best case scenario is he shows enough to be the guy and they can decide (like the Eagles did) whether to punt some of those added assets into 2025 as QB insurance or just use the picks.

The Eagles were 100% setting themselves up for long term Super Bowl contending with the way they acquired future picks to address the QB position. The Bucs are setting themselves up to win as many games as possible without being Super Bowl contenders unless they get a lucky break at the QB position.

They had those picks bc their previous #2 overall QB was a bust and they were able to fleece his old coach that thought he could return to the flash said bust showed in 10/11 games.

Then they sucked and traded out of their top 10 pick.

They kept their core, without having a fire sale, and rolled the dice on 2nd round QB most weren’t sure about… and that many were sure wasn’t the answer.

They ended up with a very real chance to win the Super Bowl and practically not a single soul saw it coming before the season.

[Miller4Prez64]

The team isn’t looking to deliberately be a cellar dweller. Even if that ends up happening (I don’t see it. Bad division, roster has too much talent). And Bowles isn’t in a position to be really bad for another year. They’d be drafting a highly touted QB for another coach.

I get that, but I also just don’t get how they plan to compete this year with the OL in the shape it’s in. Even with a first round rookie, we are in rough shape. Especially if our best lineman is having to play a new position.

[_MB_]

Goddamn. Gronk just killed defenses up the seam that year.

[Al Bundy]

I’m just not sure I’m down for what OBP is trying to do right now. Which is to cut spending on offense and direct it to Todd Bowles’ defense and keeping it in tact. Lavonte is one thing, but Dean and Nelson are replaceable and I don’t think bringing them back on more expensive deals does much for us short or long term. Especially when you look at how the money Nelson got essentially matches up with the cap savings earned by trading Shaq Mason for close to nothing. Our coaches and front office basically decided that having a rotational defensive lineman is more important than a quality offensive lineman, and I don’t agree with that.

Our secondary is starting to get expensive and while these guys can play, only Antoine is actually a Pro Bowl caliber player and our secondary struggles to force turnovers, should we be paying so much to keep it all together when we now have a shaky QB situation? This offseason is all about Bowles and his defense, and it’s why we probably should have excused him with Leftwich. We are giving money to his boys instead of making the best decisions for our team in the short and long term. If winning now was the move, then addressing the OL needed to be priority over retaining Dean/Nelson. If not, then we are just better off with cap savings and 2024 comp picks. It really doesn’t feel like we are setting ourselves up to win this year or long term with these moves and it’s a bit of an uneasy feeling.

If Licht/Bowles tanked for 2024 they would both be out of a job. If Dean were a 30 year old CB I would agree, but he is young and it opens up what the team can do in the draft that much more.

[mdb1958]

The team isn’t looking to deliberately be a cellar dweller. Even if that ends up happening (I don’t see it. Bad division, roster has too much talent). And Bowles isn’t in a position to be really bad for another year. They’d be drafting a highly touted QB for another coach.

I get that, but I also just don’t get how they plan to compete this year with the OL in the shape it’s in. Even with a first round rookie, we are in rough shape. Especially if our best lineman is having to play a new position.

I like our offensive line

[Naismith]

If Licht/Bowles tanked for 2024 they would both be out of a job.

Unfortunately (and understandably), this is a motivating factor for people whose second job is to win games and whose first job is to stay employed. It gives a decent advantage to coaches and/or GMs that have the cache to have a bad season, though not many of them exist.

[BucsNBills]

I’m just not sure I’m down for what OBP is trying to do right now. Which is to cut spending on offense and direct it to Todd Bowles’ defense and keeping it in tact. Lavonte is one thing, but Dean and Nelson are replaceable and I don’t think bringing them back on more expensive deals does much for us short or long term. Especially when you look at how the money Nelson got essentially matches up with the cap savings earned by trading Shaq Mason for close to nothing. Our coaches and front office basically decided that having a rotational defensive lineman is more important than a quality offensive lineman, and I don’t agree with that.

Our secondary is starting to get expensive and while these guys can play, only Antoine is actually a Pro Bowl caliber player and our secondary struggles to force turnovers, should we be paying so much to keep it all together when we now have a shaky QB situation? This offseason is all about Bowles and his defense, and it’s why we probably should have excused him with Leftwich. We are giving money to his boys instead of making the best decisions for our team in the short and long term. If winning now was the move, then addressing the OL needed to be priority over retaining Dean/Nelson. If not, then we are just better off with cap savings and 2024 comp picks. It really doesn’t feel like we are setting ourselves up to win this year or long term with these moves and it’s a bit of an uneasy feeling.

If Licht/Bowles tanked for 2024 they would both be out of a job. If Dean were a 30 year old CB I would agree, but he is young and it opens up what the team can do in the draft that much more.

It's spilled milk at this point, but this is exactly why Licht and Bowles needed to go after the season. Their personal interests and motivations do not align with the best interests of the team on a long-term basis.

They're trying to eek out as many wins as possible, even if that's to the detriment of the team.

We can only hope that their efforts are in vain and we still only end up winning 1 or 2 games so we can finally get a young QB that's capable of competing with the current crop of street ballers that are breaking the NFL.

[_MB_]

If Licht/Bowles tanked for 2024 they would both be out of a job. If Dean were a 30 year old CB I would agree, but he is young and it opens up what the team can do in the draft that much more.

It's spilled milk at this point, but this is exactly why Licht and Bowles needed to go after the season. Their personal interests and motivations do not align with the best interests of the team on a long-term basis.

They're trying to eek out as many wins as possible, even if that's to the detriment of the team.

We can only hope that their efforts are in vain and we still only end up winning 1 or 2 games so we can finally get a young QB that's capable of competing with the current crop of street ballers that are breaking the NFL.

That's ridiculous. Every coach and GM is out there trying to win as many games as possible.

There is no "we have no intention of winning" in the national football league on a season to season basis. I promise you that if you tank for the #1 pick as a strategy for the season, someone else will be making that pick for you.

Licht and Bowles are trying to field the best damned football team they can with the resources they have because that's their job.

[Bootz]

Am I reading this correctly, that @BucsNBills thinks it's in the "best interests of the team" to win 1 or 2 games??

You're going full LUGZ again, man. Never go full LUGZ.

[BucsNBills]

Jesus was killed for speaking the truth as well. I'm in good company.

[Bootz]

[Doctor]

Exactly. These draft groupies are stuck in a loser franchise mentality that is all about sacrificing a FO and staff to draft a rookie savior. It's gross. Can you imagine Baltimore or Pittsburgh doing something that like?

Todd Bowles has 3 rings. Jason Licht has 2. Bruce Arians sitting in the FO has another 3. Our new OC has 1.

We know this group of guys can win because they are fucking winners. They literally did it for us two years ago.
Are we going to be a little lean for a bit? Sure. But when we are not, holy hell, why would anyone would want to swap out this staff for some cool college coach and some other team personnel guy is beyond me.

[_MB_]

Jesus was killed for speaking the truth as well. I'm in good company.

Thou ain't paid for thy methods, but for thy results. Thou shalt win at all costs.

[BucsNBills]

[Bootz]

I'd throw them our 3rd.

[mdb1958]

How many of the 124 sacks on Burrow were his.

[BucsNBills]

I'd throw them our 3rd.

I'd be down to clown with that trade.

[_MB_]

I'd throw them our 3rd.

Makes sense to me.

[mdb1958]

33 sacks in three years - I don't think so