Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[Doctor]

I didn't say making decisions. In fact, it's unclear if BA is still even employed by OBP. I'm saying if his list was like mine and they also looked into Carr heavy as an option they may already be predisposed to liking him. Especially if he's a FA. Makes a lot of sense.

As for Arians, He had one of the largest coaching staffs and was one of the most hands off coaches we've ever seen. Real teach your stuff then guiding hand type. I don't think he's trying any harder in his laid back ambiguous role. He's likely just roaming the halls, sipping whiskey, and telling stories. You bring him in to sit in a room and sniff out bs and give his two cents.

[13F11B]

I didn't say making decisions. In fact, it's unclear if BA is still even employed by OBP. I'm saying if his list was like mine and they also looked into Carr heavy as an option they may already be predisposed to liking him. Especially if he's a FA. Makes a lot of sense.

As for Arians, I don't he had one of the largest coaching staffs and was one of the most hands off coaches we've ever seen. Real teach your stuff then guiding hand type. I don't think he's trying any harder in his laid back ambiguous role. He's likely just roaming the halls, sipping whiskey, and telling stories. You bring him in to sit in a room and sniff out bs and give his two cents.

If we can get BA that would be awesome. By BA, I mean Sergeant Bosco Albert Baracus.

[Al Bundy]

I remember my short list for Arain QBs in 2020 was Brady, Brees, Carr, Teddy, Winston.
We obviously went after Tom. We have reports that we liked Teddy. If we don't go back to Winston that would leave Carr.

Obviously, all that is form an Arians era long past. But if I'm right, it may still stick in JL mind. And if the new OC is on board, Carr could be it. Especially if he's just a straight-up free agent.

If Arians is still making these decisions at this point, this franchise is in deeper shit than we realize. The OC interviewees should be discussing the position with Licht and Bowles. Licht and Bowles should move forward with the hire all one the same page about the position. No worthwhile OC candidate should be getting told who his quarterback will be by the "Senior Advisor" or whatever Arians is calling himself. Anybody who'd take the job under that condition has no future in this league.

Honestly the Glazers should have cleaned house and that included Bowles and the entire coaching staff as well as front office and scouts.

[Doctor]

God what is it with losing franchise and the impulse to clean house.

[Brazen331]

I didn't say making decisions. In fact, it's unclear if BA is still even employed by OBP. I'm saying if his list was like mine and they also looked into Carr heavy as an option they may already be predisposed to liking him. Especially if he's a FA. Makes a lot of sense.

As for Arians, I don't he had one of the largest coaching staffs and was one of the most hands off coaches we've ever seen. Real teach your stuff then guiding hand type. I don't think he's trying any harder in his laid back ambiguous role. He's likely just roaming the halls, sipping whiskey, and telling stories. You bring him in to sit in a room and sniff out bs and give his two cents.

Hopefully, he’s no longer employed. He’s better off roaming the halls of his house and sipping whiskey there.

[Grahamburn]

I hope Licht is picking up the phone..

So a perpetually smart organization is $100M apart on guaranteed $ talks with Lamar and you want Licht to pick up the phone?

And do what? Trade a few first round picks so he can make millions on our IR while Kyle Trask throws ducks to Devin Thompkins?

[Doctor]

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. You are way oversimplifying things.

[Grahamburn]

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. You are way oversimplifying things.

Who is oversimplifying what is or isn't working?

[Phantom]

[BucsNBills]

Rick Stroud reported that the Glazers are looking to take a "home run swing" at QB this season to keep the team relevant. I guess the question becomes how does one define a "home run swing"?

Does Derek Carr count? Personally I like Carr and I think if we did enough to build around him we could be a pretty solid team, but I certainly wouldn't classify that as a Home Run.

Carr is by far the best of the FA options available so if he's not a big swing move, then none of the rest are.

So that kind of limits the QBs that we could make a move for that keeps us relevant and qualifies as a Home Run Swing, which those QBs are almost certainly Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson. Each of those QBs are covered in a bunch of Ifs, Buts, and What have yous so it's impossible to predict where they'll land.

The only other real option is making a big move in the draft to move up and draft one of these top QB prospects. Will Levis and CJ Stroud will almost certainly be the two QBs we'd consider, though Anthony Richardson has a ridiculous ceiling and he's a Florida guy...

Assuming the Glazers aren't just full of shit and truly do mean that they intend to make a big move, what's your Best Case Yet Plausible QB move we could make this year?

I think my choice would be to be very aggressive with getting Jackson or making the move in the draft. But that's just me.

[Doctor]

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. You are way oversimplifying things.

Who is oversimplifying what is or isn't working?

Ravens = smart. Ravens = no pay Lamar. No pay Lamar = smart.
Ravens are well run sure, but so are the Pats and 9ers and both were wrong on Brady being done. We weren't.

As well run as any team is they can be wrong. And even if they are right in letting him go because "Lamar won't win a SB for the Ravens" that doesn't mean he can't/won't win one elsewhere. It's all about timing, situation, and fit.

Lamar to Atlanta scares the crap out of me.

[King Bootz]

Imagine saying Derek Carr is the best FA QB with Lamar Jackson in the same FA class.

[Snake]

Who is oversimplifying what is or isn't working?

Ravens = smart. Ravens = no pay Lamar. No pay Lamar = smart.
Ravens are well run sure, but so are the Pats and 9ers and both were wrong on Brady being done. We weren't.

As well run as any team is they can be wrong. And even if they are right in letting him go because "Lamar won't win a SB for the Ravens" that doesn't mean he can't/won't win one elsewhere. It's all about timing, situation, and fit.

Lamar to Atlanta scares the crap out of me.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-engla ... deal-2019/

But The Athletic’s Jeff Howe suggests the narrative that Belichick pushed Brady out of town may not be entirely accurate.
...
“The Patriots offered him two years and $53 million in training camp in 2019, and Brady turned it down,” Howe said. “He ultimately took what amounted be a raise of several million, and it gave him an out to leave the Patriots after the 2019 season.”
...
“Again, I think too many people are looking at this and saying that the Patriots kicked him out the door, they didn’t set him up for success,” the insider explained. “You look going into that last year, Belichick drafted a receiver [N’Keal Harry] in the first round. He signed Demaryius Thomas. He signed Antonio Brown. They brought in the guys.”
...
But, as Howe said, “the effort was there” from the Patriots to keep Brady in town. “Tom Brady just didn’t want to stick around.”

Brady wanted out.

[Doctor]

Stop it Bootz. One is actually hitting the market and the other isn't. Quit playing.

Thing that worries the heck out of me with a guy like Dan Pitcher is, who the heck does he know? Who is Danny boy going to bring with him? At least dudes like Brian Johnson and Monken have had staff before and know people. Who Dan know?

[King Bootz]

Ravens = smart. Ravens = no pay Lamar. No pay Lamar = smart.
Ravens are well run sure, but so are the Pats and 9ers and both were wrong on Brady being done. We weren't.

As well run as any team is they can be wrong. And even if they are right in letting him go because "Lamar won't win a SB for the Ravens" that doesn't mean he can't/won't win one elsewhere. It's all about timing, situation, and fit.

Lamar to Atlanta scares the crap out of me.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-engla ... deal-2019/

But The Athletic’s Jeff Howe suggests the narrative that Belichick pushed Brady out of town may not be entirely accurate.
...
“The Patriots offered him two years and $53 million in training camp in 2019, and Brady turned it down,” Howe said. “He ultimately took what amounted be a raise of several million, and it gave him an out to leave the Patriots after the 2019 season.”
...
“Again, I think too many people are looking at this and saying that the Patriots kicked him out the door, they didn’t set him up for success,” the insider explained. “You look going into that last year, Belichick drafted a receiver [N’Keal Harry] in the first round. He signed Demaryius Thomas. He signed Antonio Brown. They brought in the guys.”
...
But, as Howe said, “the effort was there” from the Patriots to keep Brady in town. “Tom Brady just didn’t want to stick around.”

Brady wanted out.

We knew this already. Even you commented on him taking the meetings with Miami. You just had the timing and team wrong. He didn't wanna stay in New England.

[Snake]

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-engla ... deal-2019/




Brady wanted out.

We knew this already. Even you commented on him taking the meetings with Miami. You just had the timing and team wrong. He didn't wanna stay in New England.

Agree to disagree on part of that.

But, Doctor was incorrect in thinking that NE viewed Brady as "done."

[King Bootz]

We knew this already. Even you commented on him taking the meetings with Miami. You just had the timing and team wrong. He didn't wanna stay in New England.

Agree to disagree on part of that.

He was so uninterested that he met with Ross and Flores on a boat to plan everything. Texted high level Miami Dolphins executives during the season, and fake retired in an attempt to force the Bucs’ hand.

What are you agreeing to disagree on? All of this occurred during TC 2019 when he was still with New England. But you stated specifically that he tried to force the Bucs hand. Well all of this occurred before Tampa was even in the picture. So agree to disagree about what? You being wrong here?

[Snake]

He wanted out of Tampa - as well - is the point.

[King Bootz]

He wanted out of Tampa - as well - is the point.

But he didn't take meetings with Miami to force the Bucs hand. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in trying to connect the 2 situations. But Miami had no part in Brady wanting out of Tampa. He certainly wouldn't be texting Brian Flores about it, as Flores had been fired.

[Doctor]

BB wanted to keep Jimmy and move on from Brady. Brady had to go to Kraft. BB was wrong. They won another ring.

[Grahamburn]

Who is oversimplifying what is or isn't working?

Ravens = smart. Ravens = no pay Lamar. No pay Lamar = smart.
Ravens are well run sure, but so are the Pats and 9ers and both were wrong on Brady being done. We weren't.

As well run as any team is they can be wrong. And even if they are right in letting him go because "Lamar won't win a SB for the Ravens" that doesn't mean he can't/won't win one elsewhere. It's all about timing, situation, and fit.

Lamar to Atlanta scares the crap out of me.

I think that's exactly how it works. The Ravens are a well run team. They have Lamar in their building every day. If they're $100M apart either he's not being reasonable with his demands or they're not interested in making a long term commitment to him. It can't be both. If he's not being reasonable I don't want Licht picking up the phone to trade for him, and if the Ravens aren't interested in making a long term commitment to him we shouldn't be either.

And, come on with the Brady comparison. Brady a free agent at 43 versus Lamar at 26 aren't exactly in the same ball park. Or zip code for that matter.

[Doctor]

My point is smart teams get things wrong ALL THE TIME.

In fact, I'd argue that smart teams are just better at getting it wrong less.

The argument that this can't be wrong because it's being done by the ravens is silly.

[Grahamburn]

My point is smart teams get things wrong ALL THE TIME.

In fact, I'd argue that smart teams are just better at getting it wrong less.

The argument that this can't be wrong because it's being done by the ravens is silly.

Of course. They're not infallible. But, this is also their so called franchise QB we're talking about here not a 6th round LBer from NiU.

I don't know all the circumstances of course, but they vetted him. They drafted him. They started him. He won an MVP. And now they won't pay him? Don't you want to know why? And, if they WILL pay him, but it's not enough for Lamar is that a player the Bucs should pursue? I say no.

If a team like Atlanta trades for him I say good for us, because there's a real chance he isn't available to face us late in the season or playoffs.

[Sdbucs]

This is the type of potential hire that excites me.

It's not some journeyman coach like Monken who can't hold an NFL gig. It's a raw coach who has been part of a highly successful team.

Much higher upside.

[Buc2]

My point is smart teams get things wrong ALL THE TIME.

In fact, I'd argue that smart teams are just better at getting it wrong less.

The argument that this can't be wrong because it's being done by the ravens is silly.

Of course. They're not infallible. But, this is also their so called franchise QB we're talking about here not a 6th round LBer from NiU.

I don't know all the circumstances of course, but they vetted him. They drafted him. They started him. He won an MVP. And now they won't pay him? Don't you want to know why? And, if they WILL pay him, but it's not enough for Lamar is that a player the Bucs should pursue? I say no.

If a team like Atlanta trades for him I say good for us, because there's a real chance he isn't available to face us late in the season or playoffs.

And they’d likely have little money left to spend on a team around him.

[mdb1958]

This is the type of potential hire that excites me.

It's not some journeyman coach like Monken who can't hold an NFL gig. It's a raw coach who has been part of a highly successful team.

Much higher upside.

Also small college position coaches have recruitment duty's.

[Doctor]

But who the hell he going to bring to be his staff?

[Miller4Prez64]

This is the type of potential hire that excites me.

It's not some journeyman coach like Monken who can't hold an NFL gig. It's a raw coach who has been part of a highly successful team.

Much higher upside.

Maybe you are right, but do we know if this guy is actually capable of designing and running an offense? I’m not trying to hate or say he shouldn’t get the job, I just always get cautious about position coaches getting promotions because they coach a position where their team has good players.

Keep in mind our HC is a complete defensive guy and any OC we hire will have to basically design a whole new offense from the ground up on his own. If this guy is the guy, then great, but I will have my doubts. Unless he brings Joe Burrow with him.

[Sdbucs]

This is the type of potential hire that excites me.

It's not some journeyman coach like Monken who can't hold an NFL gig. It's a raw coach who has been part of a highly successful team.

Much higher upside.

Maybe you are right, but do we know if this guy is actually capable of designing and running an offense? I’m not trying to hate or say he shouldn’t get the job, I just always get cautious about position coaches getting promotions because they coach a position where their team has good players.

Keep in mind our HC is a complete defensive guy and any OC we hire will have to basically design a whole new offense from the ground up on his own. If this guy is the guy, then great, but I will have my doubts. Unless he brings Joe Burrow with him.

My stance -
1. If there was another successful OC candidate from the NFL as an option, I'm for it... but is there one at the moment? It sounds like we either get retread Monken or an unknown position coach. The ONLY time Monken has been successful as an OC is when he has had the top roster in CFB at his disposal.

I just always get cautious about position coaches getting promotions because they coach a position where their team has good players.

It's exactly like you've said here, only Monken has already shown us what he offers with/without good players as an OC.

There is higher upside in an unknown candidate than a retread candidate (higher downside too, in theory). These guys are fighting to prove themselves as an OC(eventual HC), rather than a guy like Monken who has had chance after chance to prove himself. It could flop, but at least we took a chance.

2. Pitcher is next inline for OC duties in CIN. Based on this, I'd assume he's pretty dang familiar with their offensive system design (a damn good one), and with designing an offense overall. I'd rather this than someone say a position coach of the Broncos, where their design failed.

[13F11B]

Dan Pitcher sounds intriguing. I do like the idea of someone fresh. Someone with new ideas.

[Naismith]

I think the team needs to just take its lumps next year. Put Trask in, see if he's NFL caliber. Take a flier on a rookie QB. Try to get as many picks as possible to reload with some cheap contracts.

[_MB_]

I think the team needs to just take its lumps next year. Put Trask in, see if he's NFL caliber. Take a flier on a rookie QB. Try to get as many picks as possible to reload with some cheap contracts.

You're fired

[Cheb]

I think the team needs to just take its lumps next year. Put Trask in, see if he's NFL caliber. Take a flier on a rookie QB. Try to get as many picks as possible to reload with some cheap contracts.

You're fired

He ain't wrong though.

The smarter long-term solution would be to do what Naismith advocated, or at least some version of it. Reset the cap, don't mortgage future resources, and see how well Bowles can coach them up. Only problem is that Bowles and/or Licht may not be Buc employees this time next year if they do that, so I doubt they'll walk down that road.

[King Bootz]

You're fired

He ain't wrong though.

The smarter long-term solution would be to do what Naismith advocated, or at least some version of it. Reset the cap, don't mortgage future resources, and see how well Bowles can coach them up. Only problem is that Bowles and/or Licht may not be Buc employees this time next year if they do that, so I doubt they'll walk down that road.

“Resetting the cap” is kind of an unwritten fallacy. It doesn’t happen. Well it happens for teams who are bad enough or they don’t have a QB or marquee players. Look at the 2 teams in the SB. They’ve both won the SB within the last 6 years. Neither “reset the cap” to get back to stay in contention. They drafted well, make good on FA signings, hit on the positions you need to, and continued to retool the roster so they could manage their cap well and impending FA departures.

The Bucs have never found that formula. We always hold on to players way too long and then scramble to find their replacement. Or we hold on to players who don’t really fit a long term winning strategy. We never have good depth except at positions like WR, RB, QB and as such we don’t get great value out of younger players on the roster.

We’re either too old as a team or too young. There’s hardly ever a healthy balance between the 2.

[Primeminister]

He ain't wrong though.

The smarter long-term solution would be to do what Naismith advocated, or at least some version of it. Reset the cap, don't mortgage future resources, and see how well Bowles can coach them up. Only problem is that Bowles and/or Licht may not be Buc employees this time next year if they do that, so I doubt they'll walk down that road.

“Resetting the cap” is kind of an unwritten fallacy. It doesn’t happen. Well it happens for teams who are bad enough or they don’t have a QB or marquee players. Look at the 2 teams in the SB. They’ve both won the SB within the last 6 years. Neither “reset the cap” to get back to stay in contention. They drafted well, make good on FA signings, hit on the positions you need to, and continued to retool the roster so they could manage their cap well and impending FA departures.

The Bucs have never found that formula. We always hold on to players way too long and then scramble to find their replacement. Or we hold on to players who don’t really fit a long term winning strategy. We never have good depth except at positions like WR, RB, QB and as such we don’t get great value out of younger players on the roster.

We’re either too old as a team or too young. There’s hardly ever a healthy balance between the 2.

This only works if you hit on the QB. Until that point I think that Cheb and Naismith are correct.