Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[Grahamburn]

And where’d he come from? A brilliant regime, right? And a whole lot of other regimes who thought he was DONE. You know who didn’t think that? This regime.

The regime has missed on every QB outside of the best player in history.

Congrats?

I’d say 33.3% and a Super Bowl is a damn fine batting average. Some of you feel differently? Poll the rest of the league to see who’s better…

[MJW]

The regime has missed on every QB outside of the best player in history.

Congrats?

I’d say 33.3% and a Super Bowl is a damn fine batting average. Some of you feel differently? Poll the rest of the league to see who’s better…

.405

That's Todd Bowles's career winning % as a head coach.

[Grahamburn]

The worst possible scenario is any* that extends our time with this doomed regime, including Baker.

* - Yeah, herp a derp, what if we win the Superbowl derp

This doomed regime could have back to back division titles in about six months.

I'm not hating on playoffs every year. Act like you've been here before.

Three-peat. Actually. If.

[mdb1958]

If we can identify 6 or 7 plays as to why we lost a game, it should be a better season than 2022.

[Grahamburn]

I’d say 33.3% and a Super Bowl is a damn fine batting average. Some of you feel differently? Poll the rest of the league to see who’s better…

.405

That's Todd Bowles's career winning % as a head coach.

Then I guess you’ll be happy if that holds true as some sort of indicator?

[_MB_]

This doomed regime could have back to back division titles in about six months.

I'm not hating on playoffs every year. Act like you've been here before.

Three-peat. Actually. If.

2021 is Arians' title.

The knock on Bowles is winning a division title with a losing record with Tom Brady as quarterback.

Bowles wins another one than we know unequivocally that Leftwich was the problem.

I think Leftwich was the problem.

[Deja Entendu]

Genuinely curious what you thought the Eagles should have done last off-season after we trounced them from the playoffs.

Stayed the course? Why wouldn't they?

If, after I've posted a thousand times on this, people think I want to tear down every roster that doesn't win a Superbowl that year, I'm genuinely embarrassed by the time I've spent trying to intelligently discuss the issue.

Because there were genuine questions about their Head Coach, QB, aging roster, and whether their GM should have been fired with (or instead of) their last HC.

You’ve explained your stance. I get it.

There are teams that aren’t clearly on the rise (like those Eagles), but can make some key adjustments and progress despite major question marks.

The Eagles aren’t just a great example of this because they made it to the Super Bowl; it’s more because practically NO ONE thought they would be real contenders after their previous playoff exit.

It’s not that some of us aren’t getting your point (no doubt some are), it’s that we disagree with your evaluation of where this team is.

Your evaluation of this team basically starts and ends with your detest for the HC.

[MJW]

The Eagles aren’t just a great example of this because they made it to the Super Bowl; it’s more because practically NO ONE thought they would be real contenders after their previous playoff exit.

I'm sorry, this is simply untrue. The Eagles had improved by 5 games from the previous season. Their 23 year old QB made the Pro Bowl in his first season as a starter. They had (and have) a ton of young talent. They had a young coach in his first job earning rave reviews. They had depth and talent up and down both lines. They had also nailed their previous several drafts.

Also, the "this came out of nowhere" thing is crap.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... ii-winner/

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/9/7/ ... rson-bills

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/09/07/nfl-s ... mmqb-staff

https://www.nfl.com/news/9-last-minute- ... traight-mv

Those were the first four on my google search. All picked the Eagles to win the division, several predicted deep playoff runs.

[_MB_]

Baker Mayfield > Jameis Winston

Tell me why we don't have a puncher's chance at the division.

[Deja Entendu]

The Eagles aren’t just a great example of this because they made it to the Super Bowl; it’s more because practically NO ONE thought they would be real contenders after their previous playoff exit.

I'm sorry, this is simply untrue. The Eagles had improved by 5 games from the previous season. Their 23 year old QB made the Pro Bowl in his first season as a starter. They had (and have) a ton of young talent. They had a young coach in his first job earning rave reviews. They had depth and talent up and down both lines. They had also nailed their previous several drafts.

Also, the "this came out of nowhere" thing is crap.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2022 ... ii-winner/

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/9/7/ ... rson-bills

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/09/07/nfl-s ... mmqb-staff

https://www.nfl.com/news/9-last-minute- ... traight-mv

Those were the first four on my google search. All picked the Eagles to win the division, several predicted deep playoff runs.

They built hype after their offseason (rightfully so), but after their playoff exit there were many questions about if they could win with Hurts and with Sirianni. When they loaded up on future picks many saw it as insurance for if Hurts wasn’t the answer, which again many questioned.

There are even rumors they tried to pursue Wilson.

The NFC East was also largely seen as a dumpster fire for years.

It’s not revisionist history to say no one saw the Eagles having the season they did Jan through Jun last year, and def not pre draft.

Edit: I live in Philly. Noone that’s rational saw that season coming. The most optimistic were hopeful that Hurts pulled it together and they were two years away from being a real contender

[Deja Entendu]

I’d say 33.3% and a Super Bowl is a damn fine batting average. Some of you feel differently? Poll the rest of the league to see who’s better…

.405

That's Todd Bowles's career winning % as a head coach.

Similar to Carroll and Belichick after their first season with their second team (well third for Carroll). Although despite the dumpster fire first year he had, it was still better than Carroll’s in Seattle or Bill’s in NE.

You very well could be right about him. Some of us want to see what happens after he has full control of the team.

[Deja Entendu]

I also googled “2022 NFL Standings Predicitons”

#1- Cowboys

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2022/8/2/ ... super-bowl

#2

SI picked the Cowboys in May. Switched to Philly on the even if the season and even still had them w a WC round exit.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/05/13/2022- ... redictions

#3 also cowboys

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2022/8/2/ ... super-bowl

#4 was a gambling link that updated to 2023 but the next one down did pick the Eagles. But had this to say:

“The first of our somewhat bold 2022 NFL predictions, the Philadelphia Eagles winning the NFC East. There is plenty of hesitancy with quarterback Jalen Hurts, worrisome accuracy and some poor decision-making under pressure are going to hold Philly back at times. “



You can also google things like “Jalen Hurts not the answer” and see plenty from the previous season.

[Deja Entendu]

While I’m bored:

One person on this board early prediction thread picked the Eagles to win the NFCE. A couple others had them in the WC (myself included).

MJ, you didn’t have them making the playoffs pre draft.

viewtopic.php?t=714


Edit:

In Aug, not one person on the board named them as a contender. MJ, you did however say they “could crash the party”

viewtopic.php?t=820

Edit 2:

They didn’t even get much love in the Last to Lose thread. Which matched a common narrative as they had the 2nd weakest schedule going into the season.

viewtopic.php?t=907



Ok I’m over it now.

[MJW]

So the statement idea they came out of nowhere was ridiculous then? We can go blow for blow on this.

Anyway, the point stands. Philly's situation looked NOTHING like our situation.

[MJW]

Baker Mayfield > Jameis Winston

Tell me why we don't have a puncher's chance at the division.

I don't give a fuck about riding another shitty NFC South season into 8-9 or 9-8 and a 40 point Wildcard loss at home. If you said, "You can have that season or you can win 1 game" I'd take the second one. Both seasons are ass, but one of them ends with a consolation prize that will help us actually contend in the future, unless we're incompetent (in which case, it doesn't matter WHAT we do.)

[MJW]

.405

That's Todd Bowles's career winning % as a head coach.

Similar to Carroll and Belichick after their first season with their second team (well third for Carroll). Although despite the dumpster fire first year he had, it was still better than Carroll’s in Seattle or Bill’s in NE.

You very well could be right about him. Some of us want to see what happens after he has full control of the team.

What does "full control of the team" mean?

[Deja Entendu]

So the statement idea they came out of nowhere was ridiculous then? We can go blow for blow on this.

Anyway, the point stands. Philly's situation looked NOTHING like our situation.

You want me to say they didn’t come out of nowhere? Sure. They were a playoff team with a talented roster that added more talent. I didn’t say they did.

Were they seen as the true contender they ended up being? With an MVP caliber QB rather than a QB with one season to prove he belonged? Absolutely not.

Anyway

I don’t consider the situations themselves all that similar either (two teams year to year rarely are), which is why I never directly compared the two.

[Deja Entendu]

Similar to Carroll and Belichick after their first season with their second team (well third for Carroll). Although despite the dumpster fire first year he had, it was still better than Carroll’s in Seattle or Bill’s in NE.

You very well could be right about him. Some of us want to see what happens after he has full control of the team.

What does "full control of the team" mean?

A full off-season in control, and an actual handpicked coaching staff.

[Deja Entendu]

Baker Mayfield > Jameis Winston

Tell me why we don't have a puncher's chance at the division.

I don't give a fuck about riding another shitty NFC South season into 8-9 or 9-8 and a 40 point Wildcard loss at home. If you said, "You can have that season or you can win 1 game" I'd take the second one. Both seasons are ass, but one of them ends with a consolation prize that will help us actually contend in the future, unless we're incompetent (in which case, it doesn't matter WHAT we do.)

Those aren’t the only options though, and I don’t know who is lobbying for another season like last year?

Last year was dreadful bc of a million things and many weren’t even on the field (but they sure spilled on to the field). This has been repeated so many times by many people.

[MJW]

I don't give a fuck about riding another shitty NFC South season into 8-9 or 9-8 and a 40 point Wildcard loss at home. If you said, "You can have that season or you can win 1 game" I'd take the second one. Both seasons are ass, but one of them ends with a consolation prize that will help us actually contend in the future, unless we're incompetent (in which case, it doesn't matter WHAT we do.)

Those aren’t the only options though, and I don’t know who is lobbying for another season like last year?

Last year was dreadful bc of a million things and many weren’t even on the field (but they sure spilled on to the field). This has been repeated so many times by many people.

And so I ask again, what makes you think Todd Bowles is a guy who can fix any those issues?

[Deja Entendu]

Would you be happy heading into next offseason after:

A relatively healthy season.

1 starting QB all year who throws for 3700ish YDS 25ish TDs with under 12 INTs

Canales calling an effective and innovative balanced attack and has us towards the top of the league in scoring.

White establishes himself as a top/upper middle caliber starting RB.

Wirfs transitions well and the O Line solidifies.

D returns to their aggressive takeaway form and keeps the PA in the better third of the league

Mike gets his 1k

10-7 NFC South Champs

2nd round playoff exit

[Deja Entendu]

Those aren’t the only options though, and I don’t know who is lobbying for another season like last year?

Last year was dreadful bc of a million things and many weren’t even on the field (but they sure spilled on to the field). This has been repeated so many times by many people.

And so I ask again, what makes you think Todd Bowles is a guy who can fix any those issues?

I am not overly confident in Bowles (who could be), but I fully believe the vast majority of last years issues were not on Bowles: off the field, injuries, or on the offense.

But I certainly don’t think my above scenario is unreachable. Not with the new offense, our off season changes, and having some key players back.

[Deja Entendu]

Look I’m the first to admit I’m an eternal optimist, but I’m also pretty pragmatic.

There’s absolutely a chance Bowles is what you think he is, neither Baker or Trask are capable of reliable QB play, but there’s enough talent to mash together a “competitive” record and be in your doomsday scenario.

My aforementioned scenario is also pretty possible.

If I’m being perfectly honest, the constant “the sky is falling” shit just gets a bit old to read… particularly before pads are on

[_MB_]

Baker Mayfield > Jameis Winston

Tell me why we don't have a puncher's chance at the division.

I don't give a fuck about riding another shitty NFC South season into 8-9 or 9-8 and a 40 point Wildcard loss at home. If you said, "You can have that season or you can win 1 game" I'd take the second one. Both seasons are ass, but one of them ends with a consolation prize that will help us actually contend in the future, unless we're incompetent (in which case, it doesn't matter WHAT we do.)

You sound like a Steelers fan.

Whaaaaa! We didn't win the super bowl last year!

Get a fuckin grip.

[MJW]

Look I’m the first to admit I’m an eternal optimist, but I’m also pretty pragmatic.

There’s absolutely a chance Bowles is what you think he is, neither Baker or Trask are capable of reliable QB play, but there’s enough talent to mash together a “competitive” record and be in your doomsday scenario.

My aforementioned scenario is also pretty possible.

If I’m being perfectly honest, the constant “the sky is falling” shit just gets a bit old to read… particularly before pads are on

Never said the sky was falling.

The only real leap I'm making here is that this team is not going to compete for a Superbowl this year. Is that "the sky is falling" to you?

[MJW]

I don't give a fuck about riding another shitty NFC South season into 8-9 or 9-8 and a 40 point Wildcard loss at home. If you said, "You can have that season or you can win 1 game" I'd take the second one. Both seasons are ass, but one of them ends with a consolation prize that will help us actually contend in the future, unless we're incompetent (in which case, it doesn't matter WHAT we do.)

You sound like a Steelers fan.

Whaaaaa! We didn't win the super bowl last year!

Get a fuckin grip.

Glad to know your acceptance of mediocrity and abuse isn't confined to the political.

[MJW]

And so I ask again, what makes you think Todd Bowles is a guy who can fix any those issues?

I am not overly confident in Bowles (who could be), but I fully believe the vast majority of last years issues were not on Bowles: off the field, injuries, or on the offense.

But I certainly don’t think my above scenario is unreachable. Not with the new offense, our off season changes, and having some key players back.

Did you see a well-prepared, well-coached football team though? You can ask any Jets fans about Bowles in those regards, they'll give you the same answer.

[Deja Entendu]

Would you be happy heading into next offseason after:

A relatively healthy season.

1 starting QB all year who throws for 3700ish YDS 25ish TDs with under 12 INTs

Canales calling an effective and innovative balanced attack and has us towards the top of the league in scoring.

White establishes himself as a top/upper middle caliber starting RB.

Wirfs transitions well and the O Line solidifies.

D returns to their aggressive takeaway form and keeps the PA in the better third of the league

Mike gets his 1k

10-7 NFC South Champs

2nd round playoff exit

[mdb1958]

@Deja Entendu - and super relative draft prospects join our roster.

[_MB_]

You sound like a Steelers fan.

Whaaaaa! We didn't win the super bowl last year!

Get a fuckin grip.

Glad to know your acceptance of mediocrity and abuse isn't confined to the political.

Your insistence on needless suffering in order to "earn" winning is stupid.

You want to lose because you think we have to lose now in order to win later. That's stupid.

You want to lose as many players and coaches as possible so you can get new ones that may or may not be any better than the coaches and players you have now. That's stupid.

You must have liked going from Gruden to Morris to Schiano to Lovie to Koetter

[Doctor]

Why do people care what he did on the damn Jets? We're not the Jets. That's like focusing on BB's Cleveland years.

Or bringing up Baker in Carolina? That's like Moss or Palmer's time as a Raider, both of who would play in a SB with their next teams.

I care about this regime on this team. And the hate for a 2nd year HC coming off a division title in an injury riddled year is simply ludicrous.

[JackBootedThug]

Palmer played in a Super Bowl?

[Grahamburn]

Palmer played in a Super Bowl?

He did not. But, he did have several fantastic years, one of them MVP level, as the Cardinals QB after 3 straight 4 win seasons with Cincinnati/Oakland. It's almost as if Bruce Arians can identify QB talent that other teams decide to throw away. Interesting.

Arizona traded a 6th rounder for Palmer and a 7th.

[MJW]

Why do people care what he did on the damn Jets? We're not the Jets. That's like focusing on BB's Cleveland years.

Or bringing up Baker in Carolina? That's like Moss or Palmer's time as a Raider, both of who would play in a SB with their next teams.

I care about this regime on this team. And the hate for a 2nd year HC coming off a division title in an injury riddled year is simply ludicrous.

Are you actually trying to argue that things people have done in the past aren't indicative of what they'll do in the future?

Are you a total fucking moron?

[MJW]

Glad to know your acceptance of mediocrity and abuse isn't confined to the political.

Your insistence on needless suffering in order to "earn" winning is stupid.

You want to lose because you think we have to lose now in order to win later. That's stupid.

You want to lose as many players and coaches as possible so you can get new ones that may or may not be any better than the coaches and players you have now. That's stupid.

You must have liked going from Gruden to Morris to Schiano to Lovie to Koetter

A liberal who doesn't understand investment. Shocked, shocked I tells ya!

Let me explain it like this: you have enough money to have two mediocre meals or one kickass meal. You decide to skip a meal so you can have a kickass meal later. With me? Okay, that's what we're talking about. Because of the NFL's incentive system, you get a bigger meal later the hungrier you are now.

As for the philosophy behind it, I do not want to lose as many players and coaches as possible. With the players, I want to get younger and cheaper where it makes sense to. With the coaches, it's not my fault Todd Bowles is terrible. But he is. And anyone who watched last season and says otherwise is taking the piss.