Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[Phantom]

facts

[Doctor]

Bridge QB nonsense is a second cousin of the rookie savior.

We don't need a bridge QB. We had one, it was 2022 Brady. He bridged us to our groomed QBOTF Trask.

But Kyle's no longer a rookie and wasn't taken top ten, so he can't be a rookie savior, so we need a new bridge to a new rookie savior.

And round and round.

[Snake]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

[Bootz]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

Haven't you heard? Every QB drafted is of the "if he pans out great, if not we'll get someone next year" variety. No one is ever really a franchise QB. They are all auditioning for the next season.

[Grahamburn]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

Make a viable case why Baker Mayfield would be a better choice than Trask for the future of the Bucs and the quest for another championship.

[Snake]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

Make a viable case why Baker Mayfield would be a better choice than Trask for the future of the Bucs and the quest for another championship.

Both likely end with us getting a top 10 pick. Which could theoretically lead to a top QB pick. THAT starts a path to another ring.

[_MB_]

When was the last time the Kansas City Chiefs had a top ten pick?

[Bootz]

When was the last time the Kansas City Chiefs had a top ten pick?

2017

[Snake]

Yeah, the time they drafted GOAT II

[Cheb]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

Knowing that we'd have posts like this during the offseason prompted me to preemptively do a deep dive writeup on Trask. Feel free to read it if you haven't already: http://www.itsabucslife.com/viewtopic.p ... 59#p116859

Truth is, Kyle Trask is a recent second round pick who was drafted by this GM to be our QBotF. And that future is now, my dude. Trask has tools to work with, plenty enough to win NFL games. Writing him off before his first NFL start is premature, and being unwilling to give him a chance is ultimately driven by cowardice and fear. Folks would rather throw 20 to 30 million dollars of money that we don't have at retreads like Carr or Mayfield than let Trask show what's he's got. It gets even worse when you realize that those 20-30 million bucks could be used to build a much stronger team by resigning some of our talented free agents who we otherwise couldn't afford.

Moreover, writing off players before they even had a chance exceeding their draft position would have written off the careers of guys like Brock Purdy or Kurt Warner or Matt Hasselback or Tom Brady long before they ever took a snap.

I don't see why it's so hard for folks to fathom the idea of building a solid team around Trask and seeing what he can do. That's not punting, it's not tanking. It's maximizing your assets, using those dollars and draft picks you would otherwise use on his replacements to add corners and pass rushers and offensive linemen and depth, and seeing if Bowles has the stones to coach up this team.

Trying to sign an expensive free agent quarterback, that's the dark side. And just like the dark side, it isn't stronger, only quicker and more seductive.

[Navybuc]

I have no issue with giving Trask one season to prove he’s the future. Worst that comes out of it is he sucks, we get a new HC, and we draft early in 2024 when the qb class is as deep as it’s ever been.

[Grahamburn]

Make a viable case why Baker Mayfield would be a better choice than Trask for the future of the Bucs and the quest for another championship.

Both likely end with us getting a top 10 pick. Which could theoretically lead to a top QB pick. THAT starts a path to another ring.

Right. Maybe I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were advocating for Mayfield over Trask. So, if they both likely end up with us getting a top 10 pick why would we pay Mayfield? There's no real reason for us to sign an expensive vet here.

Seems like a Trask/Lock combo makes the most sense as a see what sticks upside play without spending a ton of cash. If they're awful, which is likely, we can easily move on.

[Bootz]

Most cases made for potential franchise QBs are centered around their abilities on the field and their overall command of their offense.

There's a clear and obvious reason you never heard that case being made for Trask.

[_MB_]

I have no issue with giving Trask one season to prove he’s the future. Worst that comes out of it is he sucks, we get a new HC, and we draft early in 2024 when the qb class is as deep as it’s ever been.

This is what everyone will say until kickoff week one.

Then it's nonstop melodrama until this time next year.

[Bootz]

I have no issue with giving Trask one season to prove he’s the future. Worst that comes out of it is he sucks, we get a new HC, and we draft early in 2024 when the qb class is as deep as it’s ever been.

This is what everyone will say until kickoff week one.

Then it's nonstop melodrama until this time next year.

Well we're definitely in the "fuck around/find out" portion of Buccaneer Fandom. Any and everybody who comes here will likely get a chance to "see what they can do" whether they deserve it or not. We know they ain't it but still try to convince ourselves otherwise. Trash will be no different.

[Doctor]

Yup. Every time.

Us: "There's going to be growing pains"
*Growing pains happen*
Also us: "This guy ain't it"


Us 2021: "I"ll gladly mortgaged a couple future years to boost up this window."
Us 2023: "I can't believe we're going to have to eat a lean year. Everyone needs to get replaced."

[Grahamburn]

Isn't it as much "see what he can do" as it is he's the best option for this window?

[Bootz]

There's a reason the teams that are always in contention don't have to have "lean years" or go through rebuilds. They manipulate the cap year after year. Keep pushing money into the future. They don't need to hard reset.

The Bucs clearly don't have anyone in the FO with that type of moxy. Look at a team like the Saints, who it seems are always in cap hell. Every year, this board swears they'll have a fire sale because they are 10s of millions in the hole and every year they come out almost unscaved. It's because their FO knows how to play the game. Honestly I think we had a guy who could play that game in Mark Dominik, he was simply here at the wrong time. The Eagles are another example. Pats, Chiefs, Steelers. All of these teams FOs do work to build their team and get under the cap without going into full rebuild.

[Grahamburn]

@Bootz Which teams are "always in contention," and what's your qualification for it?

[Bootz]

@Grahamburn Read the entirety of the post

[Grahamburn]

@Grahamburn Read the entirety of the post

The teams you mentioned have ALL had capable QB play for multiple years. It's less some GM with brilliance or moxy and so much more hitting a home run at the QB position.

The Eagles were 4-11-1 just two years ago. Chiefs had the #1 overall just 10 years ago.

[Bootz]

@Grahamburn Read the entirety of the post

The teams you mentioned have ALL had capable QB play for multiple years. It's less some GM with brilliance or moxy and so much more hitting a home run at the QB position.

The Eagles were 4-11-1 just two years ago. Chiefs had the #1 overall just 10 years ago.

That's part of it. A major part. They hit on a QB so they don't have to get ideas about "rebuilding" from the ground up.

To my point though, did the Eagles decide to burn it all down and rebuild after going 4-11-1? Nope. They switched HCs, made a few moves but for the most part the majority of the roster remained the same. They didn't run and hide the way Bucs fans would have.

And "just" 10 years ago? Yea "just" 10 years ago Greg Schiano was our HC. We've had 4 different coaches since him. That's an eternity in the NFL. And to my point, the Chiefs have made the post season 9 out of those 10 years, won 2 out of 3 Super Bowls, and haven't had a losing record.

[13F11B]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

Make a case that he is not. Annnnnd go.

[Bootz]

make a great case why Kyle Trask is a viable franchise quarterback and will be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL.

Annnnnd go.

Make a case that he is not. Annnnnd go.

He has limited to no mobility. Doesn't throw a very accurate or catchable ball. Couldn't beat out a subpar journeyman for the backup position.

Now you make a case on the contrary. Wait, if you could then you would've done so instead of deflecting.

[Doctor]

Hitting on the "great QB" is still the holy grail of the NFL. It absolutely is. However, it's not the ONLY way to win in the NFL. And this idea of "keep burning until we finally hit on a top pick guy" is beyond foolish when it's only worked once in the last 20 years. Stopping a great QB still remains far more important than having one. 49ers were 3 minutes away from winning with Jimmy G. The Eagles with Hurts. There are many ways to skin a cat.

IF we happen to suck and get a high pick that happens to be QB that can play for us, so be it. But I'm not going to make that Plan A, especially given how much history has shown IT DOESNT WORK, holy grail or now. Especially given that you can still hit the Holy Grail OUTSIDE the top of the draft, see Russell Wilson, Hurts, etc.
You instead go the way we did in 2019, the Rams did in 2020, the 9ers and Jets are doing now. You build everything you can to win with the QBs you can get. You don't sit on your hands waiting for your savior.

[GreatTimes]

Most cases made for potential franchise QBs are centered around their abilities on the field and their overall command of their offense.

There's a clear and obvious reason you never heard that case being made for Trask.

Well, try this as a case being made for Trask: Kyle Trask led the Gators to the most prolific passing offense (387.6 ypg) in the FBS while ranking seventh in total offense (509.8 ypg) and eighth in scoring offense (39.8 ppg). This against some of the best defenses in the NCAAF.
In 2020, quarterback Kyle Trask completed 301-of-437 attempts (68.9 pct.) for 4,283 yards, 43 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 180.0 efficiency rating en route to Heisman Trophy finalist and second-team All-America honors. The senior signal caller led the entire FBS in touchdown passes and ranked second in completions and passing yards.

[Phantom]

Most cases made for potential franchise QBs are centered around their abilities on the field and their overall command of their offense.

There's a clear and obvious reason you never heard that case being made for Trask.

Well, try this as a case being made for Trask: Kyle Trask led the Gators to the most prolific passing offense (387.6 ypg) in the FBS while ranking seventh in total offense (509.8 ypg) and eighth in scoring offense (39.8 ppg). This against some of the best defenses in the NCAAF.
In 2020, quarterback Kyle Trask completed 301-of-437 attempts (68.9 pct.) for 4,283 yards, 43 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 180.0 efficiency rating en route to Heisman Trophy finalist and second-team All-America honors. The senior signal caller led the entire FBS in touchdown passes and ranked second in completions and passing yards.

Yeah but it’s the Gators. Most of the Gators quarterback doesn’t fare well in NFL

Ie:Steve Spurrier Shane Matthew, Danny Wuerffel, Rex Grossman, Tim Tebow and (Kyle Trask?)

They’re all prolific passer

[Naismith]

I don't agree with that. The easiest way to win is having a great QB. I don't think it's the only way, of course, but the last five SBs have been won by Brady twice, Mahomes twice and Stafford and the losing QBs have been Hurts, Burrow, Mahomes in the last three. That's a lot of excellent QB play.

I think I'd try to turn current assets like this year's picks, Mike Evans and Donovan Smith, into ammo in next year's draft. Give Trask the year at QB and see if he has anything and if he doesn't, hopefully that leaves them in position to get a top QB.

[Grahamburn]

The teams you mentioned have ALL had capable QB play for multiple years. It's less some GM with brilliance or moxy and so much more hitting a home run at the QB position.

The Eagles were 4-11-1 just two years ago. Chiefs had the #1 overall just 10 years ago.

That's part of it. A major part. They hit on a QB so they don't have to get ideas about "rebuilding" from the ground up.

To my point though, did the Eagles decide to burn it all down and rebuild after going 4-11-1? Nope. They switched HCs, made a few moves but for the most part the majority of the roster remained the same. They didn't run and hide the way Bucs fans would have.

And "just" 10 years ago? Yea "just" 10 years ago Greg Schiano was our HC. We've had 4 different coaches since him. That's an eternity in the NFL. And to my point, the Chiefs have made the post season 9 out of those 10 years, won 2 out of 3 Super Bowls, and haven't had a losing record.

Well, that's why I asked you to qualify what "always in contention" meant. 10 years? 5 years? The Steelers, Saints, Packers, and Patriots have all been in contention for the last decade+ because they've had an entrenched HOF QB. Will that continue in perpetuity just because of the color of their uniforms? It doesn't appear to be the case.

Anyway, my point is you don't have to go through lean years or manipulate the cap so much when you've got the QB. Free agents want to play with great QBs. Your window is always open when you have a great QB. You hit on the QB and everything else typically will fall into place eventually. I don't necessarily agree with any kind of total tanking strategy, but if you're not a contender you need to be taking shots at that position until you've got a keeper.

[Bootz]

Most cases made for potential franchise QBs are centered around their abilities on the field and their overall command of their offense.

There's a clear and obvious reason you never heard that case being made for Trask.

Well, try this as a case being made for Trask: Kyle Trask led the Gators to the most prolific passing offense (387.6 ypg) in the FBS while ranking seventh in total offense (509.8 ypg) and eighth in scoring offense (39.8 ppg). This against some of the best defenses in the NCAAF.
In 2020, quarterback Kyle Trask completed 301-of-437 attempts (68.9 pct.) for 4,283 yards, 43 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 180.0 efficiency rating en route to Heisman Trophy finalist and second-team All-America honors. The senior signal caller led the entire FBS in touchdown passes and ranked second in completions and passing yards.

This shouldn't be this hard.

Most of what you're referring to is based around what the team did and what he did in college. You ask me what makes Jamel Dean, a 3rd round pick, a potentially good corner, I'd say his great size and elite speed and closing ability.

It's telling that people can't point to Trask's attributes or skills as reasons why we should be optimistic. It tells me that people know deep down he ain't the answer but they are afraid to say so. Anthony Richardson might be a worse prospect that Trask but at least his apologists can point to his great athletic ability and big arm as reasons to be optimistic.

TRASK AINT IT.

[Bootz]

All of this an Trask might not even be the guy. Bowles wasn't part of that decision making process. Canales wasn't even here. And there a new QB coach. Plus we don't even know if the Glazers have given Bowles/Licht the green light to use 2023 as a "scratch around" year to see what works and what doesn't. Bowles damn sure isn't gonna let his future rest in the hands of a guy who couldn't beat out Blaine Gabbert for 2 years.

[Cheb]

Well, try this as a case being made for Trask: Kyle Trask led the Gators to the most prolific passing offense (387.6 ypg) in the FBS while ranking seventh in total offense (509.8 ypg) and eighth in scoring offense (39.8 ppg). This against some of the best defenses in the NCAAF.
In 2020, quarterback Kyle Trask completed 301-of-437 attempts (68.9 pct.) for 4,283 yards, 43 touchdowns, eight interceptions and a 180.0 efficiency rating en route to Heisman Trophy finalist and second-team All-America honors. The senior signal caller led the entire FBS in touchdown passes and ranked second in completions and passing yards.

This shouldn't be this hard.

Most of what you're referring to is based around what the team did and what he did in college. You ask me what makes Jamel Dean, a 3rd round pick, a potentially good corner, I'd say his great size and elite speed and closing ability.

It's telling that people can't point to Trask's attributes or skills as reasons why we should be optimistic. It tells me that people know deep down he ain't the answer but they are afraid to say so. Anthony Richardson might be a worse prospect that Trask but at least his apologists can point to his great athletic ability and big arm as reasons to be optimistic.

TRASK AINT IT.

I see that your ability to look up and then read basic information is at an all-time low. But it's Monday and I'm feeling helpful. Here's the meat-and-taters from his NFL.com draft profile:

Overview:
Trask clearly has the arm strength, touch and placement to wear out one-on-one coverage if he has good protection and above-average players around him, but he's not going to elevate an offense with his talent alone. He's very good at finding his throwing platform and can deliver deep throws with outstanding touch. He needs to improve his eye work to create more opportunities by moving safeties around. Trask is clearly a skilled passer, but it's hard to find evidence of him being able to play chess at this point against what NFL defenses are likely to show him.

Strengths:
* Prototypical size to stand tall and fire from the pocket
* Made substantial production gains across the board in 2020.
* Enabled team to open up game plan in 2020.
* Became the first FBS quarterback in 15 years to post three or more TD passes in nine consecutive games.
* Stepped up against Alabama in SEC Championship Game.
* Able to pump and reset against baiting coverage.
* Feels edge pressure and climbs to free space in pocket.
* Gets back into passing platform when moving outside the pocket.
* Arm strength to whip field-side deep outs with no issues.
* Tardy safeties will find a willing challenger over the top.
* Talented downfield passer with touch and accuracy.
* Can attack one-on-ones and place deep throw where it needs to go.
* Fairly accurate even when feet are not set

Weaknesses:
Pocket setup is slower and labored.
Footwork gets sloppy and bouncy inside pocket.
Needs to do better at recalibrating optimal targets post-snap.
Will miss blitz recognition and basic reads at times.
Threw into bracketed coverage multiple times against LSU.
Deliberate release will not tolerate slow reads through progressions.
Below-average functional mobility to extend the play.
Unlikely to improvise and beat defense if he's not well-protected.
Appeared to favor left knee, affecting follow-through.
Runs targets into traffic and collisions with late-ball delivery.

Source: https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kyle-tras ... 69635ccf01

Okay Cheb, I hear you say, but reading is for nerds. Well then look at this little gem one of my engineers sent me the other day:



There's things to like here. Trask feels the pressure, navigates away from it, and then drops an absolute dime on the move with the throw going 35-40 yards. Kyle makes a smart read and throws an accurate catchable ball. What else do you want him to do, bring you a hotdog in the stands?

Your alarmist takes grow wearisome.

[mdb1958]

I do not know who his college receivers were but 60 something TD's are also a plus. Could not our WR's be an improvement?

[mdb1958]

I wonder if we have anyone pondering retirement?

[mdb1958]

How many of our free agents do we encourage to test the market?