Should Licht be fired?

[Doctor]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!??
Stumbled onto a winning ticket??

He has literally built the entire roster from the ground up through exceptional drafting and smart, ballsy free agent finds. From the OL to the WR to the defense and everything in between.

Like, idk who the fuck you think put all this together over the last 8 years if not Licht.

Tom Brady is a lottery ticket

Sounds to me like Tom Brady stumbled onto a lottery ticket of not only a GM building a stacked team but also that same GM being one of the very few people left who didn't see him as washed up just yet...

Brady would be sitting in Indy with 6 rings right now still trying to get out from under BBs shadow if it wasn't for Licht. But we can't talk about that.

[Snake]

Board has spoken.

Licht shall survive.

[MJW]

The window is over/closed/finished. It was a good two years.

Let's say the window has closed, fine... Where the hell is it written that you need to swap out GMs between windows?

So, Licht keeps his job now, but he almost certainly has less rope than a new GM coming in for a rebuild would have. So what happens? Does Licht say, "It may get me fired when we're terrible for another few years, but I'm going to do everything I can to make sure the guy who takes my job has a lot to work with?"

Fuck No. He says, "I'm probably getting shitcanned if we're horrible, because even in a rebuild that's how the NFL is, but if I can get us to decent, I'll get more time on my clock. Let's kick the cap can down the road and bring in some veterans."

That's why you swap out GMs. Licht is starting this thing out with two strikes. You want to argue that doesn't make sense, go ahead. But that's how the NFL is now. The team sucks - even if ownership KNOWS it's a rebuild - folks get fired. First up is the guy who's been there the longest.

[BucsNBills]

Let's say the window has closed, fine... Where the hell is it written that you need to swap out GMs between windows?

So, Licht keeps his job now, but he almost certainly has less rope than a new GM coming in for a rebuild would have. So what happens? Does Licht say, "It may get me fired when we're terrible for another few years, but I'm going to do everything I can to make sure the guy who takes my job has a lot to work with?"

Fuck No. He says, "I'm probably getting shitcanned if we're horrible, because even in a rebuild that's how the NFL is, but if I can get us to decent, I'll get more time on my clock. Let's kick the cap can down the road and bring in some veterans."

That's why you swap out GMs. Licht is starting this thing out with two strikes. You want to argue that doesn't make sense, go ahead. But that's how the NFL is now. The team sucks - even if ownership KNOWS it's a rebuild - folks get fired. First up is the guy who's been there the longest.

Yeap, it's just a mentality thing. A new GM gets to walk through the door knowing this is a rebuild and doesn't have the pressure of trying to Win Now. A new GM also has zero emotional investment in the roster which gives him the freedom to be brutally honest with his assessment.

Do we think a new GM will view Devin White the same way Jason Licht will? Because I'm scared to death Licht is going to give White that Roquan Smith money whereas I'd be hopeful that a new GM would trade White ASAP.

Todd Bowles and Jason licht are already using terms like "reload" in their press conferences which tells me that clearly they aren't correctly acknowledging that we should be in rebuild mode and they'll take every message possible to try and eek out another NFCS title in 2023 just so we can get fisted by another #5 seed on WC weekend.

[Doctor]

You
Try
To
Win
Every
Year

You think Schoen and Daboll went into the year "well, let's sell Barkley and everyone else, get the first pick and rebuild"

No, they didn't. I know this is hard for some of got to hear but STOP BEING LOSERS.

[BucsNBills]

I'm pretty sure the best way to stop being losers in the NFL is to get an elite QB. Being losers is perpetually winning 5 games a year, drafting guys like Devin White, and having to start guys like Mike Glennon, Gradokowski, Chris Simms, and Fitzpatrick as your QBs every year.

But hey man, I hope you get your wish @Doctor I hope we win 4 or 5 games next year so we can say we tried to win every game and not get a QB while we watch some other team draft Caleb Williams.

I really do hope you get what you desperately want in 2023 and the 2024 draft, because then we won't be losers anymore, right?

[mdb1958]

The thing with Licht is he just signed 16 futures and I don't think he has any desires whatsoever of them becoming anything.

[Doctor]

I appreciate BnB having the guts to say it out loud.

This is another Winless For Winston

The tanker philosophy is this adolecent wet dream of securing "having a GM/HC with enough FoReSiGhT to sacrifice one or as many years as it takes until one day we're the ones drafting that Luck or Burrow like player first overall"

That's it. That's what it is in its entirety.
By all means HC and GM, please don't try to improve or fix our teams with the many talents and skills you have.... no,no,no... put those all to the side and pin your careers to hoping this wet dream while ignoring the fact that...

-You have no way or knowing or controlling if another team picks before you
-You have no way or knowing or controlling who comes out that year
-You have no way or knowing or controlling who gets hurt that year
-You have no way or knowing or controlling whats in a players heart


But sure. Lets repeat Winless for Winston. Such a proven strategy.

[BucsNBills]

I appreciate BnB having the guts to say it out loud.

This is another Winless For Winston

The tanker philosophy is this adolecent wet dream of securing "having a GM/HC with enough FoReSiGhT to sacrifice one or as many years as it takes until one day we're the ones drafting that Luck or Burrow like player first overall"

That's it. That's what it is in its entirety.
By all means HC and GM, please don't try to improve or fix our teams with the many talents and skills you have.... no,no,no... put those all to the side and pin your careers to hoping this wet dream while ignoring the fact that...

-You have no way or knowing or controlling if another team picks before you
-You have no way or knowing or controlling who comes out that year
-You have no way or knowing or controlling who gets hurt that year
-You have no way or knowing or controlling whats in a players heart


But sure. Lets repeat Winless for Winston. Such a proven strategy.

Signed, the Jacksonville Jaguars who are forever grateful that the Jets tried really hard to win every game.

[Doctor]

Keep going. Who else? How many in the last 20 years? 30?

Please, feel free to list all the #1 overall picks that were these miracle, franchise saving, bullets.

[King Bootz]

The Jags are an example of 1 of those teams who spent years and years trying to find that guy. And it still won't be enough to get them a ring this year or in the foreseeable future.

[King Bootz]

In the last 15 years, the only #1 overall picks to win Super Bowls are Eli Manning, Peyton Manning and Matt Stafford. Eli won 2 with the Giants, who traded for him. Peyton won 1 with the Broncos, who signed him as a FA. Stafford won last year with the Rams, who traded for him.

[BucsNBills]

I guess it just depends on what you mean by "Franchise saving". Is the only qualifier for that winning a SB? Because I'm confident that anyone would classify Burrow as a franchise saving QB despite the fact he hasn't won a ring yet.

Has Josh Allen not completely transformed the Buffalo Bills?

Jalen Hurts?

[13F11B]

I have watched far too many QBs picked high in the first round be total flops to pin my hopes on some savior being selected in the draft. I have seen too many Tom Brady / Brock Purdy success stories to think that only 1st round QBs become super stars. Build the OL, build the DL, then fill in pieces that work together. Solid drafts over the course of time put teams in contention.

[The Outsider]

In the last 15 years, the only #1 overall picks to win Super Bowls are Eli Manning, Peyton Manning and Matt Stafford. Eli won 2 with the Giants, who traded for him. Peyton won 1 with the Broncos, who signed him as a FA. Stafford won last year with the Rams, who traded for him.

Peyton also won one with the Colts, who drafted him.

[King Bootz]

I guess it just depends on what you mean by "Franchise saving". Is the only qualifier for that winning a SB? Because I'm confident that anyone would classify Burrow as a franchise saving QB despite the fact he hasn't won a ring yet.

Has Josh Allen not completely transformed the Buffalo Bills?

Jalen Hurts?

Hurts and Allen prove the point that you don't need to tank to get a great QB or become a winner.

[King Bootz]

In the last 15 years, the only #1 overall picks to win Super Bowls are Eli Manning, Peyton Manning and Matt Stafford. Eli won 2 with the Giants, who traded for him. Peyton won 1 with the Broncos, who signed him as a FA. Stafford won last year with the Rams, who traded for him.

Peyton also won one with the Colts, who drafted him.

In the last 15 years

[BucsNBills]

I guess it just depends on what you mean by "Franchise saving". Is the only qualifier for that winning a SB? Because I'm confident that anyone would classify Burrow as a franchise saving QB despite the fact he hasn't won a ring yet.

Has Josh Allen not completely transformed the Buffalo Bills?

Jalen Hurts?

Hurts and Allen prove the point that you don't need to tank to get a great QB or become a winner.

I'm trying to pin down what "franchise saving" QB means. If it only means super bowls, then neither Allen, Burrow, or Hurts could qualify.

If it means radically changing the trajectory for a franchise, then you get to add Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, even Jared Goff to the mix who helped the Rams get to a SB, Mike Vick, Kyler Murray.

And not all #1 picks are equal. I truly believe that Caleb Williams is a transformative QB that will turn our team into a perennial contender for the next decade +. So to me, being dogshit for a single season while we get the books straightened out and build up the infrastructure of the team in preparation of a generational QB is worth it.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe "trying really hard" to win 5 games this year will produce better long term results than someone like Caleb Williams will. Who knows.

[Miller4Prez64]

You
Try
To
Win
Every


You think Schoen and Daboll went into the year "well, let's sell Barkley and everyone else, get the first pick and rebuild"

No, they didn't. I know this is hard for some of got to hear but STOP BEING LOSERS.

Did the Giants have to kill their future cap flexibility just to get far enough under the salary cap to retain their defense and get a starting QB before even thinking about upgrading any positions on the roster that struggled the previous year?

Everyone wants to win, but our FO killed our chances of winning this year so we could win in 2021 and be disappointed this year. We gotta sleep in the bed we made.

[Doctor]

Yes, we do. But there's a difference between skipping dessert and committing seppuku.

[BucsNBills]

Yes, we do. But there's a difference between skipping dessert and committing seppuku.

So to be clear, you'd be happier next season if we "try really hard" to win 6 games, resulting in a failed season and missing the playoffs, than us winning 1 game, having a failed season with no playoffs...but then getting to draft Caleb Williams?

[The Outsider]

Peyton also won one with the Colts, who drafted him.

In the last 15 years

Ah, sorry that game falls 1 year out of your arbitrary time frame.

[Doctor]

Yes, we do. But there's a difference between skipping dessert and committing seppuku.

So to be clear, you'd be happier next season if we "try really hard" to win 6 games, resulting in a failed season and missing the playoffs, than us winning 1 game, having a failed season with no playoffs...but then getting to draft Caleb Williams?

I'd be happier with a deep, comprehensive FO as oppose to one whos entire plan comes down to "go get [insert rookie savior here]"

Not only is it a historically unsuccessful strategy, but if that really is the best you got you should not be a GM.

[Miller4Prez64]

Fwiw, I don’t think there is a rookie savior. I’m more in favor of just shredding salary and getting younger, which in of itself will lead to a high pick and a potential “savior.” But this isn’t the NBA, the point isn’t to tank for a savior. It’s about setting the team up to have cap space and be competitive again in a few years. If we could kick the can down the road and have a team that could win another Lombardi next year, I would be all for it, but as we saw this season the window isn’t open anymore. We can’t risk our future for another 8-9 season.

[Doctor]

The can has been kicked. We kicked it to 2024 last year when everyone was all for it, remember?

Look at our contacts from Shaq to Godwin.

Some have just declared 2023 DOA and want to run into traffic to recover the can because they think the #1 pick is a magic bullet.

[Snake]

#1 pick and the chance at hitting on the QB >>>>>> a fake competitive season and an average starting QB.

Fake competing is awful. Treadmill teams are the worst to watch as fans. There’s no hope.

[King Bootz]

Ah, sorry that game falls 1 year out of your arbitrary time frame.

Apology accepted.

[Doctor]

You're right, I forget how the Any Reid tanked for Mahomes.
Or how Sean McDermott tanked when he took over the Bills so he could get Josh Allen.
Or how Nick Siriani tanked when he got to the Eagles.


Oh wait... none of those things happened.

[Cheb]

#1 pick and the chance at hitting on the QB >>>>>> a fake competitive season and an average starting QB.

Fake competing is awful. Treadmill teams are the worst to watch as fans. There’s no hope.

This is a defeatist attitude.

If the Bucs are bad enough to warrant the number 1 pick on their own merit next season, then that will be a late season decision between Licht and Bowles. Given how Licht and Lovie threw the last game of the season to secure the Jameis pick, I imagine that they'd shoot for that.

But in lieu of that happening, we still have a decent roster in a shitty division. Who knows, maybe Kyle Trask is the guy. Especially if we can build a solid team around him, and more importantly hire an offensive coordinator who isn't a dumbass, I think we can be a solid squad next year.

[Doctor]

Imagine trying to sell blowing up a roster with 8 probowlers on it so you can intentionally tank for rookie savior as the best thing for the team.

[Snake]

Imagine trying to sell blowing up a roster with 8 probowlers on it so you can intentionally tank for rookie savior as the best thing for the team.

Would you rather go 6-11 with Carr or 3-14 with TraskBert and pick #1 overall?

[Doctor]

I'd rather Carr, Trask, Baker, and whatever other option we can land that we think can win us the most games should be the starter and we'll live with however many wins they can get us.

Again, imagine trying to sell this tanking bullshit to Sean McDermont or Nick Siriani or Brian Daboll. Who instead of tanking, pushed their shitty rosters to the best of their abilities and got 9 wins out of them. Which, according to tanking simp dogma, should've resulted in all of them dooming their franchises.

[Snake]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Josh Allen was picked seventh overall. If they win one more game, they don’t get him. Daniel Jones was also picked in the top seven. If they win one more game, they don’t get him.

If those teams were treadmill teams, they would not have those quarterbacks.

The further you get away from the number one overall pick, the harder it is to find a quality quarterback. It doesn’t mean that you should take a quarterback in the top five, but being bad is ultimately The key to having the best chance at a chance.

I’m sure the Bengals wish they pick 15th that year instead of drafting Joe Burrow.

[King Bootz]

Imagine trying to sell blowing up a roster with 8 probowlers on it so you can intentionally tank for rookie savior as the best thing for the team.

Would you rather go 6-11 with Carr or 3-14 with TraskBert and pick #1 overall?

6-11 or better.

[King Bootz]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Josh Allen was picked seventh overall. If they win one more game, they don’t get him. Daniel Jones was also picked in the top seven. If they win one more game, they don’t get him.

100% Wrong. The Bills traded up from #12 with the Bucs to take Allen and all it cost them was a 2nd. They went 9-7 and made the playoffs the season before they selected Allen. They had the 12th pick because of another trade they made with the Bengals regarding Cordy Glenn.

Daniel Jones has been complete ass and didn't even have his 5th year option picked up. Even this year, the Giants haven't been winning games because of him. He's at best a top 25 QB with limited upside at this point.