The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

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The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by BucsNBills »

For 18 teams, the off-season began last Sunday. Six more will join them by the final whistle on Monday Night and the Bucs are hoping their name is not among them.

What do you see as the biggest storylines going into the off-season?

Who's on your FA covet list?

What's your philosophy for the Bucs 2023 roster moves?

Which coaching hires intrigue you the most?

Who should replace Byron? I hear Arians wants to give his good friend Forest Whitaker a shot in the NFL.

Should we rebuild and start from scratch or should we be aggressive and add as many pieces possible to keep our winning ways going in a post Brady era?

Who's on your QB carousel and where do they end up?

How much drama will Aaron Rodgers conjure up again this off-season?

Will Belichick one up his Patricia hire by bringing in Bob Vance of Vance Refrigeration to run the offense for Mac Jones?

These are but some of the questions the NFL will need answered going into a brand new off-season. This is when fans hopium tanks get fully recharged, as well as the beginning steps and stages of what will inevitably be disastrous decisions that derails teams harder and faster than threads invariably do on itsabucalife.

And my brothers and sister in Christ, can we finally get an mdb translator? Surely we have the technology by now.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Snake »

I’m curious about the expected quarterback movement across the league.

I think Derek Carr is going to get cut. Rather than traded. People are talking about him fetching a first round pick. I don’t know man. I don’t see that.

The Falcons invested a second round pick in Ridder. They have some tape to evaluate. Did they see enough and invest enough to commit another year to him? They have the eighth overall pick. Definitely will have a shot at one of the top quarterbacks and close enough to trade up if they felt compelled.
Last edited by Snake on Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

No one is trading for Carr. Thats a very limited ceiling. Always has been. Its just that the Raiders mistook his outliers as the norm. If you looked up .500 QB in the football dictionary, his picture would be there.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:54 am No one is trading for Carr. Thats a very limited ceiling. Always has been. Its just that the Raiders mistook his outliers as the norm. If you looked up .500 QB in the football dictionary, his picture would be there.
Which is to say, better than roughly have the QBs in the league.

Just sayin'. I don't want him, for many reasons discussed already. But if I'm the Jets, or the Dolphins, or the Commanders, or the Colts, etc, etc, etc, he's lookin' pretty good.

Now, trade value? Yeah, he probably has SOME. This is a league where Carson Wentz got traded for a 3rd and a 2nd, failed, and then got traded the next offseason for a 3rd anyway.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

In what way does he move the needle for the Jets or Dolphins? Dolphins especially. If your argument is that Tua's NFL career is over, I hear you. But the Dolphins made the playoffs on the back of the performance Tua had when he was healthy.

If the Dolphins had Carr in 2022, they'd probably not make the playoffs. Maybe he provides more stability for the Jets. But there are times he's as bad as Zach Wilson is.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Snake »

The level of quarterback play has elevated really quickly.

Geno Smith put up 30 and 11.
Kirk cousins put up 29 and 14.
Jared Goff put up 29 and 7.
Trevor Lawrence put up 25 and 8.
Brock Purdy put up 13 and 4 (6 starts).

If I’m looking at a quarterback, he needs to be turnover averse. When Jared Goff‘s of the world are putting up 4 to 1 TD/INT ratios.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by BucsNBills »

Snake wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:51 am I’m curious about the expected quarterback movement across the league.

I think Derek Carr is going to get cut. Rather than traded. People are talking about him fetching a first round pick. I don’t know man. I don’t see that.

The Falcons invested a second round pick in Ridder. They have some tape to evaluate. Did they see enough and invest enough to commit another year to him? They have the eighth overall pick. Definitely will have a shot at one of the top quarterbacks and close enough to trade up if they felt compelled.
I think Carr could have a very positive impact on any team that signs him, but I agree that him getting traded is unlikely. Every team knows the Raiders must cut him so spending draft capital to acquire him along with his rather large contract just seems like a waste of resources to me. The Raiders are absolutely going to cut him, so anyone that's interested in his services should just be patient and wait until after the SB to get him under contract.

The Bucs will likely be pursuing his services as well as the Jets at minimum.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Navybuc »

Not a fan of Carr. There’s a reason why Vegas is dumping him. Just don’t think he’s very good.

Will be interested in trading for Love if Rodgers stays in GB. Word is he will request trade if AR doesn’t leave.

Would love to keep Brady, but I really think he is going to Miami or Vegas…more likely Miami with Gronk. Brady and Gronk partying on South Beach could be in the future.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Snake »

I’d probably give up a 6th/7th for love. No more.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:01 am In what way does he move the needle for the Jets or Dolphins? Dolphins especially. If your argument is that Tua's NFL career is over, I hear you. But the Dolphins made the playoffs on the back of the performance Tua had when he was healthy.

If the Dolphins had Carr in 2022, they'd probably not make the playoffs. Maybe he provides more stability for the Jets. But there are times he's as bad as Zach Wilson is.
You're saying that he doesn't win more games over the course of a season than the three-headed monster of Wilson/White/Flacco? Also, no one in the league is as bad as Zach Wilson is, at any time. Except Based Peterman.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:01 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:01 am In what way does he move the needle for the Jets or Dolphins? Dolphins especially. If your argument is that Tua's NFL career is over, I hear you. But the Dolphins made the playoffs on the back of the performance Tua had when he was healthy.

If the Dolphins had Carr in 2022, they'd probably not make the playoffs. Maybe he provides more stability for the Jets. But there are times he's as bad as Zach Wilson is.
You're saying that he doesn't win more games over the course of a season than the three-headed monster of Wilson/White/Flacco? Also, no one in the league is as bad as Zach Wilson is, at any time. Except Based Peterman.
Doubtful. In his 9 year career he's only won more games than the Jets did this season twice.

And yes. He has been Zach Wilson bad at times. His final game as a raider he threw 3 picks and barely completed 50% of his passes vs the Steelers. They lost 13-10.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Snake »

Will Zach Rosen even be in the league in three years as a back up?
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:27 am
The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:01 am

You're saying that he doesn't win more games over the course of a season than the three-headed monster of Wilson/White/Flacco? Also, no one in the league is as bad as Zach Wilson is, at any time. Except Based Peterman.
Doubtful. In his 9 year career he's only won more games than the Jets did this season twice.

And yes. He has been Zach Wilson bad at times. His final game as a raider he threw 3 picks and barely completed 50% of his passes vs the Steelers. They lost 13-10.
In his 9 year career the Raiders have ranked 32nd in defense. And 3 picks and 50% completions is a pretty good day for Zach Wilson.


Comp Att % Yards YPA TD INT Long Rtg
3201 4958 64.6 35,222 7.1 217 99 87 91.8

That's not bad for a 9 year career with the worst defense in the league over that period of time. And the majority of that was without a true #1 at WR. Derek Carr is an above average starting QB in this league.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Snake »

Carr is soft and corny but I love the arm.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:27 am
The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:01 am

You're saying that he doesn't win more games over the course of a season than the three-headed monster of Wilson/White/Flacco? Also, no one in the league is as bad as Zach Wilson is, at any time. Except Based Peterman.
Doubtful. In his 9 year career he's only won more games than the Jets did this season twice.

And yes. He has been Zach Wilson bad at times. His final game as a raider he threw 3 picks and barely completed 50% of his passes vs the Steelers. They lost 13-10.
How many times has he had a team aroiund him as good as the Jets? Or a coach as good as Saleh?

The "treat wins for quarterbacks as an individual stat" thing isn't invalid, but it's not a great basis for an entire argument against a guy.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

MJW wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:50 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:27 am

Doubtful. In his 9 year career he's only won more games than the Jets did this season twice.

And yes. He has been Zach Wilson bad at times. His final game as a raider he threw 3 picks and barely completed 50% of his passes vs the Steelers. They lost 13-10.
How many times has he had a team aroiund him as good as the Jets? Or a coach as good as Saleh?

The "treat wins for quarterbacks as an individual stat" thing isn't invalid, but it's not a great basis for an entire argument against a guy.
You used that as your primary defense of Andrew Luck early in his career. All you knew was he led his team to the playoffs as a rookie. That would mean "he" won games.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Snake »

Andrew Luck is probably a top 15 talent in NFL history at quarterback. At worst.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by MJW »

Anyway, he is what he is. If I had a solid team that had serious aspirations but needed competent QB play at a reasonable price, I'd be all over Carr.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:53 am
MJW wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:50 am

How many times has he had a team aroiund him as good as the Jets? Or a coach as good as Saleh?

The "treat wins for quarterbacks as an individual stat" thing isn't invalid, but it's not a great basis for an entire argument against a guy.
You used that as your primary defense of Andrew Luck early in his career. All you knew was he led his team to the playoffs as a rookie. That would mean "he" won games.
Yeah, that's literally all one could say about Luck. Besides the individual numbers and the obvious generational talent of course.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by MJW »

Snake wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:56 am Andrew Luck is probably a top 15 talent in NFL history at quarterback. At worst.
Was it BA that said he could have been the best of all of them? Shame.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Phantom »

I think the Titans will try to trade for Derek Carr.

No he’s not coming to Tampa.

Edit: agreed with Navy, not a fan of Carr
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

MJW wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:58 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:53 am

You used that as your primary defense of Andrew Luck early in his career. All you knew was he led his team to the playoffs as a rookie. That would mean "he" won games.
Yeah, that's literally all one could say about Luck. Besides the individual numbers and the obvious generational talent of course.
So we could treat wins as an individual stat for Luck but not for other QBs? Got it. Individual numbers? He completed 54% of his passes and threw 18 picks his rookie year but you pointed to HIS wins.

The unfortunate thing with Luck is that talent never manifested itself. His numbers were pretty average to maybe above average? Outside of a few Pro Bowls he doesn't have much to show for it.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

Snake wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:56 am Andrew Luck is probably a top 15 talent in NFL history at quarterback. At worst.
Top 15 talent =/= Top 15 QB. If the talent doesn't manifest its irrelevant.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:08 am
MJW wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:58 am

Yeah, that's literally all one could say about Luck. Besides the individual numbers and the obvious generational talent of course.
So we could treat wins as an individual stat for Luck but not for other QBs? Got it. Individual numbers? He completed 54% of his passes and threw 18 picks his rookie year but you pointed to HIS wins.

The unfortunate thing with Luck is that talent never manifested itself. His numbers were pretty average to maybe above average? Outside of a few Pro Bowls he doesn't have much to show for it.
Lol join acmillis and LUGZ over in the worst QB takes of the last 10 years corner, please.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:44 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:27 am

Doubtful. In his 9 year career he's only won more games than the Jets did this season twice.

And yes. He has been Zach Wilson bad at times. His final game as a raider he threw 3 picks and barely completed 50% of his passes vs the Steelers. They lost 13-10.
In his 9 year career the Raiders have ranked 32nd in defense. And 3 picks and 50% completions is a pretty good day for Zach Wilson.


Comp Att % Yards YPA TD INT Long Rtg
3201 4958 64.6 35,222 7.1 217 99 87 91.8

That's not bad for a 9 year career with the worst defense in the league over that period of time. And the majority of that was without a true #1 at WR. Derek Carr is an above average starting QB in this league.
Those are pretty good numbers for a 9 year career. But Carr's problem is he peaked in 2015-2016 and it's been downhill from there. He got arguably the best WR in football and it equated to an 87 passer rating, barely completing 60% of his passes and him getting ousted.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:11 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:08 am

So we could treat wins as an individual stat for Luck but not for other QBs? Got it. Individual numbers? He completed 54% of his passes and threw 18 picks his rookie year but you pointed to HIS wins.

The unfortunate thing with Luck is that talent never manifested itself. His numbers were pretty average to maybe above average? Outside of a few Pro Bowls he doesn't have much to show for it.
Lol join acmillis and LUGZ over in the worst QB takes of the last 10 years corner, please.
Luck's projected trajectory was all time great. Tell me Andrew Luck lived up to that hype.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:16 am
The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:11 am

Lol join acmillis and LUGZ over in the worst QB takes of the last 10 years corner, please.
Luck's projected trajectory was all time great. Tell me Andrew Luck lived up to that hype.
Luck got injured, had that injury mismanaged by his organization and then retired. You're arguing about something that neither of us know the answer to.

And I don't evaluate how good or bad a player is based on career ending injury situations.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:12 am
The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:44 am

In his 9 year career the Raiders have ranked 32nd in defense. And 3 picks and 50% completions is a pretty good day for Zach Wilson.


Comp Att % Yards YPA TD INT Long Rtg
3201 4958 64.6 35,222 7.1 217 99 87 91.8

That's not bad for a 9 year career with the worst defense in the league over that period of time. And the majority of that was without a true #1 at WR. Derek Carr is an above average starting QB in this league.
Those are pretty good numbers for a 9 year career. But Carr's problem is he peaked in 2015-2016 and it's been downhill from there. He got arguably the best WR in football and it equated to an 87 passer rating, barely completing 60% of his passes and him getting ousted.
Josh McDaniels gonna Josh McDaniel tbh.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:35 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:16 am

Luck's projected trajectory was all time great. Tell me Andrew Luck lived up to that hype.
Luck got injured, had that injury mismanaged by his organization and then retired. You're arguing about something that neither of us know the answer to.

And I don't evaluate how good or bad a player is based on career ending injury situations.
Exactly. So you can't say he lived up to his billing as a best ever type. The circumstances might not be his own fault. But he has to actually live up to the calling and he didn't.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:35 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:12 am

Those are pretty good numbers for a 9 year career. But Carr's problem is he peaked in 2015-2016 and it's been downhill from there. He got arguably the best WR in football and it equated to an 87 passer rating, barely completing 60% of his passes and him getting ousted.
Josh McDaniels gonna Josh McDaniel tbh.
Fair point.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:37 am
The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:35 am

Luck got injured, had that injury mismanaged by his organization and then retired. You're arguing about something that neither of us know the answer to.

And I don't evaluate how good or bad a player is based on career ending injury situations.
Exactly. So you can't say he lived up to his billing as a best ever type. The circumstances might not be his own fault. But he has to actually live up to the calling and he didn't.
I can't say he was the best ever, but I can say that there was definitive evidence that he was going to be a perennial top 3 QB for the foreseeable future pre-injury.

I think saying that someone literally has to be the best ever to live up to the phrase "has the potential to be the best ever" in order to have lived up to their potential is kind of a fallacy.

Swap Luck with Peyton Manning's circumstances. Do you think Andrew Luck has a significantly worse career than Peyton Manning given those circumstances? I don't. I've seen enough from Luck to know that he was absolutely capable of playing as well as any QB in the history of football in any given game.

Edit: Actually, you can say almost the exact same thing about Carson Palmer pre-knee injury.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by Buc2 »

Bootz hates on Luck like (can't recall his name atm...Lugz maybe?) hates on Lamar Jackson.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

The Outsider wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:52 am
King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:37 am

Exactly. So you can't say he lived up to his billing as a best ever type. The circumstances might not be his own fault. But he has to actually live up to the calling and he didn't.
I can't say he was the best ever, but I can say that there was definitive evidence that he was going to be a perennial top 3 QB for the foreseeable future pre-injury.

I think saying that someone literally has to be the best ever to live up to the phrase "has the potential to be the best ever" in order to have lived up to their potential is kind of a fallacy.

Swap Luck with Peyton Manning's circumstances. Do you think Andrew Luck has a significantly worse career than Peyton Manning given those circumstances? I don't. I've seen enough from Luck to know that he was absolutely capable of playing as well as any QB in the history of football in any given game.

Edit: Actually, you can say almost the exact same thing about Carson Palmer pre-knee injury.
That's where we differ then. If you say someone is among the best ever but they never lived up to it, then it's literally nothing but talk.

Saying Luck never lived up to his hype isn't a dig at him. It's the truth, circumstances be damned. Does he have a worse career than Manning given the circumstances? He did. Whether or not he would have is purely an opinionated position and you're entitled to it but you have nothing to support it other than "projections".

You could say the same about Palmer but people don't? Why? Because he never had that "once in a generation" billing Luck did.
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by King Bootz »

Buc2 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:12 pm Bootz hates on Luck like (can't recall his name atm...Lugz maybe?) hates on Lamar Jackson.
I don't hate on Luck at all. I simply have asked the same question for years now that never gets answered with anything tangible and people rely on "but his talent".
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Re: The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

Post by The Outsider »

King Bootz wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:21 pm
Buc2 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:12 pm Bootz hates on Luck like (can't recall his name atm...Lugz maybe?) hates on Lamar Jackson.
I don't hate on Luck at all. I simply have asked the same question for years now that never gets answered with anything tangible and people rely on "but his talent".
What's tangible is the several years he was the 2nd/3rd best QB in the league. And the fact that he literally made TY Hilton's career.
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