The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

[Snake]

Well they can wish in one hand, and shit in the other, and see which one gets CTE first.

Let's be real, all of them will have CTE 1 day. Every last one. Some will suffer more than others.

You’re right about that. But Tua has definitely proven to be brittle at this point.

Two broken wrists.
Surgery on both ankles.
Dislocated hip fracture.
Multiple concussions.

[Doctor]

Also, speaking of Miami and McDaniel, let me say this about the Brock vs Trey Saga.

You see that offense Miami is running? That's what Kyle Shanahan was looking for when they traded 3 1sts for a QB. He knew he could never run a system like that with Jimmy G, one that threatened a defense at all levels. He can't run it with Brock. But if Trey Lance reached his potential, they could run it with him.

With that being said, a Mike McDaniel/Jimmy G reunion has a zero% chance of happening. McDaniel was a huge voice in the 49ers organization for replacing Jimmy G and getting a QB that could open up the offense. He'd want nothing to do with Jimmy G.

Where you read that last part,?

[BucsNBills]

@Nobody , can you come up with any good reason why Wirfs can't make a smooth transition to LT if we cut Smith? I mean obviously it would be convenient for us if he could but I'm a little hesitant just because I don't necessarily want to do anything that could fuck up his incredible play from day 1.

[Snake]

My opinion:

Both tackle spots are important. I don’t think LT is much- if any more -important than RT anymore.

[GreatTimes]

My opinion:

Both tackle spots are important. I don’t think LT is much- if any more -important than RT anymore.

I agree. Top notch DE's Edge rushers will move from one side of the line to the other to take advantage of a teams weakest tackle.

[Doctor]

@Nobody , can you come up with any good reason why Wirfs can't make a smooth transition to LT if we cut Smith? I mean obviously it would be convenient for us if he could but I'm a little hesitant just because I don't necessarily want to do anything that could fuck up his incredible play from day 1.

There really isn't. I've been pitching the idea since he was drafted.

The only thing is the arguement that it's no longer more pressing than RT. While I think the importance gap between the two have shrunk, I still believe the blind side is the blind side.

[_MB_]

Bootz hates on Luck like (can't recall his name atm...Lugz maybe?) hates on Lamar Jackson.

I don't hate on Luck at all. I simply have asked the same question for years now that never gets answered with anything tangible and people rely on "but his talent".

You're still mad he was taken before RGIII.

I remember you dying on that hill.

[King Bootz]

I don't hate on Luck at all. I simply have asked the same question for years now that never gets answered with anything tangible and people rely on "but his talent".

You're still mad he was taken before RGIII.

I remember you dying on that hill.

Wrong. My assessment was that RG3 would have a more immediate impact than Luck would but long term, if both stayed healthy, Luck had a higher ceiling.

[_MB_]

You're still mad he was taken before RGIII.

I remember you dying on that hill.

Wrong. My assessment was that RG3 would have a more immediate impact than Luck would but long term, if both stayed healthy, Luck had a higher ceiling.

You stuck your neck out that RGIII should be the first overall pick and that Luck was fools gold. You were flamed before and shortly after the draft, you started running victory laps when RGIII was playing well before injury, and you got flamed again when it became obvious that RGIII was a much less talented QB than Luck.

And none of that would be anything worth freaking out about. I thought Hercules Mata'Afa was going to break the league and Adrian Peterson was injury prone coming out of Oklahoma.

Big.
fukin.
deal.

[King Bootz]

Wrong. My assessment was that RG3 would have a more immediate impact than Luck would but long term, if both stayed healthy, Luck had a higher ceiling.

You stuck your neck out that RGIII should be the first overall pick and that Luck was fools gold. You were flamed before and shortly after the draft, you started running victory laps when RGIII was playing well before injury, and you got flamed again when it became obvious that RGIII was a much less talented QB than Luck.

And none of that would be anything worth freaking out about. I thought Hercules Mata'Afa was going to break the league and Adrian Peterson was injury prone coming out of Oklahoma.

Big.
fukin.
deal.

Bullshit! No need to rewrite history, MB. Your memory is failing you. I understood clearly that Luck would be the #1 pick and never advocated that RG3 should be taken by the Colts.

[King Bootz]

Interviewing for 4 of the 5 jobs available.

[Snake]

Is he the next Flores, or Raheem?

[King Bootz]

Is he the next Flores, or Raheem?

Could be the next Tomlin or Dungy. Or could be the next Eric Bienemy, if you know what I mean.

[King Bootz]

[Snake]

Worth it.

[Doctor]

Cowboys after tonight

[King Bootz]

Cowboys after tonight

Wait, I thought that was supposed to be the Chargers…

[_MB_]

You stuck your neck out that RGIII should be the first overall pick and that Luck was fools gold. You were flamed before and shortly after the draft, you started running victory laps when RGIII was playing well before injury, and you got flamed again when it became obvious that RGIII was a much less talented QB than Luck.

And none of that would be anything worth freaking out about. I thought Hercules Mata'Afa was going to break the league and Adrian Peterson was injury prone coming out of Oklahoma.

Big.
fukin.
deal.

Bullshit! No need to rewrite history, MB. Your memory is failing you. I understood clearly that Luck would be the #1 pick and never advocated that RG3 should be taken by the Colts.

Mmkay

[Primeminister]

Lamar’s teammates are backing him. Saying he has been limping and the players knew there was no chance he could play. They want him to be paid.

[Primeminister]

Let's be real, all of them will have CTE 1 day. Every last one. Some will suffer more than others.

You’re right about that. But Tua has definitely proven to be brittle at this point.

Two broken wrists.
Surgery on both ankles.
Dislocated hip fracture.
Multiple concussions.

The concussions alone would stop me from signing him if I were a GM.

[King Bootz]

The difference between Tua’s concussions and other players are his have been way more publicized. I think it’s fairly safe to say that most concussions in this league are of the “don’t ask, don’t tell” variety. But the optics associated with Tua’s injuries are what make people believe he’s at higher risk than other players.

[Doctor]

Tua also has no idea how to fall or take a hit. Like a whiplashing rag doll.

[Primeminister]

Tua also has no idea how to fall or take a hit. Like a whiplashing rag doll.

I’m glad someone else said this. The way he falls leads itself to more injury.

[BucsNBills]

Good news for the Chargers. Bad news for us since any good OC we'll be competing with the Chargers for their services.

[King Bootz]

[Nobody]

@Nobody , can you come up with any good reason why Wirfs can't make a smooth transition to LT if we cut Smith? I mean obviously it would be convenient for us if he could but I'm a little hesitant just because I don't necessarily want to do anything that could fuck up his incredible play from day 1.

In some ways its not a big deal:

* General footwork on anything that isn't either (a) a True Pass Set or (b) a Pin and Pull on the edge or (c) Outside Zone where you're play-side.

In some (key ways; a - c above), its quite a big deal:

* On Vertical Pass Sets, you're rewiring both the top half (hand striking dominant hands, which hand is doing what to handle various pass rush plans), rewiring your bottom half (suddenly you're kicking and changing direction and anchoring in the opposite direction), and you have to integrate both of these re-wires.

* You're pulling the opposite direction on the edge. Everyone doesn't move perfectly symmetrically (explosivity, agility, balance, etc) when moving left vs right.

* Same goes for Outside Zone when you're play-side. Everyone doesn't move perfectly symmetrically (explosivity, agility, balance, etc) when moving left vs right.


For some folks this not a big deal (particularly if they have a lot of experience with this inversion of particulars as actual football players). For some folks its a bigger deal and it takes a little time. For some folks its a big effing deal. For some folks, they actual move better and are more coordinated inverting the situation.

I think Wirfs can do it, but it certainly doesn't come without risk. I'd need to see a lot of on-field evidence as a coach to believe in this project before I consider it.

[The Outsider]

@Nobody , can you come up with any good reason why Wirfs can't make a smooth transition to LT if we cut Smith? I mean obviously it would be convenient for us if he could but I'm a little hesitant just because I don't necessarily want to do anything that could fuck up his incredible play from day 1.

In some ways its not a big deal:

* General footwork on anything that isn't either (a) a True Pass Set or (b) a Pin and Pull on the edge or (c) Outside Zone where you're play-side.

In some (key ways; a - c above), its quite a big deal:

* On Vertical Pass Sets, you're rewiring both the top half (hand striking dominant hands, which hand is doing what to handle various pass rush plans), rewiring your bottom half (suddenly you're kicking and changing direction and anchoring in the opposite direction), and you have to integrate both of these re-wires.

* You're pulling the opposite direction on the edge. Everyone doesn't move perfectly symmetrically (explosivity, agility, balance, etc) when moving left vs right.

* Same goes for Outside Zone when you're play-side. Everyone doesn't move perfectly symmetrically (explosivity, agility, balance, etc) when moving left vs right.


For some folks this not a big deal (particularly if they have a lot of experience with this inversion of particulars as actual football players). For some folks its a bigger deal and it takes a little time. For some folks its a big effing deal. For some folks, they actual move better and are more coordinated inverting the situation.

I think Wirfs can do it, but it certainly doesn't come without risk. I'd need to see a lot of on-field evidence as a coach to believe in this project before I consider it.

Would you say it's definitely something worth exploring with practice reps in TC and some sort of off-season training for inverting those things you mentioned? It's not like the team lacks the resources to do those things and I never want to hear hold #76 ever again in my life. Plus I'm pretty sure Donovan Smith being cut is one of the biggest single moves we can make for freeing up cap space.

[Nobody]

In some ways its not a big deal:

* General footwork on anything that isn't either (a) a True Pass Set or (b) a Pin and Pull on the edge or (c) Outside Zone where you're play-side.

In some (key ways; a - c above), its quite a big deal:

* On Vertical Pass Sets, you're rewiring both the top half (hand striking dominant hands, which hand is doing what to handle various pass rush plans), rewiring your bottom half (suddenly you're kicking and changing direction and anchoring in the opposite direction), and you have to integrate both of these re-wires.

* You're pulling the opposite direction on the edge. Everyone doesn't move perfectly symmetrically (explosivity, agility, balance, etc) when moving left vs right.

* Same goes for Outside Zone when you're play-side. Everyone doesn't move perfectly symmetrically (explosivity, agility, balance, etc) when moving left vs right.


For some folks this not a big deal (particularly if they have a lot of experience with this inversion of particulars as actual football players). For some folks its a bigger deal and it takes a little time. For some folks its a big effing deal. For some folks, they actual move better and are more coordinated inverting the situation.

I think Wirfs can do it, but it certainly doesn't come without risk. I'd need to see a lot of on-field evidence as a coach to believe in this project before I consider it.

Would you say it's definitely something worth exploring with practice reps in TC and some sort of off-season training for inverting those things you mentioned? It's not like the team lacks the resources to do those things and I never want to hear hold #76 ever again in my life. Plus I'm pretty sure Donovan Smith being cut is one of the biggest single moves we can make for freeing up cap space.

If I was Bowles, I'd start with asking him about it. If he seems really receptive, excited, and sells me on it, then I'd explore it in OTAs/TC. If everyone, Wirfs included, feels like we're seeing clear evidence that the re-wire isn't a big deal, then I'd possibly make the switch depending on personnel needs/fits. If we're not seeing it, I'm leaving it as-is (RT) 100 %.

If he doesn't seem receptive, excited, doesn't sell me? I'm leaving it as-is 100 %.

Personally, I'm not a big believer in the LT/RT divide so much anymore. Teams aren't offensively or defensively left-handed vs right-handed like they used to be. Defenses are multiple like crazy in every way (fronts and fits, personnel grouping deployment, coverages, and they all run an abundance of pass rush games to generate pressure) so side-based positional importance isn't so "Division of Labor-ey" as it used to be.

[Doctor]

While I have been onboard the switch Wirfs to LT wagon for a while now, that's only because there were some good options at RT that were going to be available.

At the end, we shouldn't just move him just to move him. We should see what're the best options out there and then see what's the best configuration for the line.

[Buc2]

LTs are still paid twice as much as RTs from what I can see in some searching. If that's the case, that tells me that teams still value the LT position a LOT more than RT.

[Snake]

LTs are still paid twice as much as RTs from what I can see in some searching. If that's the case, that tells me that teams still value the LT position a LOT more than RT.

Wirfs will be paid like a LT, if I’m predicting the future.

[The Outsider]

I also think it's easier to find a guy to competently play RT than it is LT because most often QBs can at least see the rush coming off the right, if they're right handed like pretty much every NFL QB. That gives the RT a little more leeway IMO.

Edit: Like, Jeremy Trueblood was a perfectly servicable RT for a while, so was Dotson. Neither of those guys would be able to play a lick of LT.

[Buc2]

I also think it's easier to find a guy to competently play RT than it is LT because most often QBs can at least see the rush coming off the right, if they're right handed like pretty much every NFL QB. That gives the RT a little more leeway IMO.

Right. This is why I don't think the positions will become all that interchangeable any time soon. While there are exceptions (Wirfs perhaps), I think RTs will always be inferior to LTs talent-wise so long as the vast majority of QBs are right-handed.

[King Bootz]

So why not find an equally talented LT and keep Wirfs at his All-Pro position? Experimenting without even trying to upgrade the LT spot is lazy at best.

[The Outsider]

So why not find an equally talented LT and keep Wirfs at his All-Pro position? Experimenting without even trying to upgrade the LT spot is lazy at best.

Why not attempt to do both? I say attempt because finding a tackle as talented as Wirfs is almost as hard as finding a QB as talented as Brady.