The Official 2023 NFL Off-Season Thread

[Nobody]

The big things I feel that has changed the former, VERY relevant differences between LT and RT are as follows:

* The TE-alignment dependencies of Over/Under fronts are not nearly as much of a thing as they used to be. It used to be in-line, right side for TEs the overwhelmingly majority of snaps. The evolution of the TE as a moving piece that ranges all over formation-wise impacts things a fair bit.

* The personnel % on both sides of the ball in the NFL is weighted dramatically different than it used to be. This is an "11 personnel on offense and Nickel/Big Dime/match-up sub-package on defense" NFL now. Gone are the days of 21/12 personnel + right handed (in-line TE over there and run plays predominantly over there) offensive dominance vs base personnel defense featuring a big, run-stuffing SAM over a big, run-stuffing LE/Edge that is going to overwhelmingly have an extremely limited (and power-centered) rush suite against the passing game with your quick-twitch, speed rush up the arc pass rusher on the other side.


NFL football is a very different beast anymore on both sides of the ball. Its light personnel, its match-ups, its moving pieces, its versatility, its ambidextrous offenses, its a lot of horizontal stuff featuring deception both offensively and defensively (Twists/Stunts up front to generate movement/assignment errors on the OL or sneak a DB/ILB off the edge or through a gap on a blitz as they replace a pass rusher while on offense you've got an abundance of various pre-snap motion threats and post-snap boundary challenging fakery to generate wrong-footed defenders or outflanking dynamics).

And look at all of the game-changing Edge players lined up predominately on the left side over the RT:

Nick Bosa
TJ Watt
Maxx Crosby
Von Miller
Cam Jordan
Matthew Judon
Haason Reddick
Brandon Graham
Joey Bosa
Josh Allen
Jaelan Phillips
Jerry Hughes

Plenty more. The list of the most productive Pass Rushers in the NFL features an abundance of Edges that RT are tasked to deal with.

There are still some staple things that exist (most QBs are right handed and the blind side is still the blind side), but mostly the differences between RT and LT have significantly degraded imo (because of the above). It just depends on how important you rate what is left.

[Four Verticals]

Would you say it's definitely something worth exploring with practice reps in TC and some sort of off-season training for inverting those things you mentioned? It's not like the team lacks the resources to do those things and I never want to hear hold #76 ever again in my life. Plus I'm pretty sure Donovan Smith being cut is one of the biggest single moves we can make for freeing up cap space.

If I was Bowles, I'd start with asking him about it. If he seems really receptive, excited, and sells me on it, then I'd explore it in OTAs/TC. If everyone, Wirfs included, feels like we're seeing clear evidence that the re-wire isn't a big deal, then I'd possibly make the switch depending on personnel needs/fits. If we're not seeing it, I'm leaving it as-is (RT) 100 %.

If he doesn't seem receptive, excited, doesn't sell me? I'm leaving it as-is 100 %.

Personally, I'm not a big believer in the LT/RT divide so much anymore. Teams aren't offensively or defensively left-handed vs right-handed like they used to be. Defenses are multiple like crazy in every way (fronts and fits, personnel grouping deployment, coverages, and they all run an abundance of pass rush games to generate pressure) so side-based positional importance isn't so "Division of Labor-ey" as it used to be.

So if it doesn't matter, effectively, which side he's on why bother entertaining switching him at all?

[Nobody]

If I was Bowles, I'd start with asking him about it. If he seems really receptive, excited, and sells me on it, then I'd explore it in OTAs/TC. If everyone, Wirfs included, feels like we're seeing clear evidence that the re-wire isn't a big deal, then I'd possibly make the switch depending on personnel needs/fits. If we're not seeing it, I'm leaving it as-is (RT) 100 %.

If he doesn't seem receptive, excited, doesn't sell me? I'm leaving it as-is 100 %.

Personally, I'm not a big believer in the LT/RT divide so much anymore. Teams aren't offensively or defensively left-handed vs right-handed like they used to be. Defenses are multiple like crazy in every way (fronts and fits, personnel grouping deployment, coverages, and they all run an abundance of pass rush games to generate pressure) so side-based positional importance isn't so "Division of Labor-ey" as it used to be.

So if it doesn't matter, effectively, which side he's on why bother entertaining switching him at all?

Again, it depends on how important you see the few remaining distinctions between LT and RT (one being "blind-side dynamics of right handed QBs").

I couldn't say how many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the importance of those remaining distinctions (and I couldn't say where Bowles comes down on that).

[The Outsider]

So if it doesn't matter, effectively, which side he's on why bother entertaining switching him at all?

Again, it depends on how important you see the few remaining distinctions between LT and RT (one being "blind-side dynamics of right handed QBs").

I couldn't say how many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the importance of those remaining distinctions (and I couldn't say where Bowles comes down on that).

You could see the importance of it this season watching our games. All of the fumbles (that I can recall) and most of the sacks Brady had this season came off of the left side because on the rarer occasion the right side got beat he'd throw it away more often than not.

[Nobody]

Again, it depends on how important you see the few remaining distinctions between LT and RT (one being "blind-side dynamics of right handed QBs").

I couldn't say how many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the importance of those remaining distinctions (and I couldn't say where Bowles comes down on that).

You could see the importance of it this season watching our games. All of the fumbles (that I can recall) and most of the sacks Brady had this season came off of the left side because on the rarer occasion the right side got beat he'd throw it away more often than not.

I think a healthy chunk of that might be related to a sieve at LT (Smith) and a sieve at LG for the first half of the season (Goedeke) vs stalwarts at RG and RT in Mason and Wirfs!

But I take your point. Its still "a thing."

[The Outsider]

You could see the importance of it this season watching our games. All of the fumbles (that I can recall) and most of the sacks Brady had this season came off of the left side because on the rarer occasion the right side got beat he'd throw it away more often than not.

I think a healthy chunk of that might be related to a sieve at LT (Smith) and a sieve at LG for the first half of the season (Goedeke) vs stalwarts at RG and RT in Mason and Wirfs!

But I take your point. Its still "a thing."

Lol yeah that was most definitely a contributing factor.

[Buc2]

So if it doesn't matter, effectively, which side he's on why bother entertaining switching him at all?

Again, it depends on how important you see the few remaining distinctions between LT and RT (one being "blind-side dynamics of right handed QBs").

I couldn't say how many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the importance of those remaining distinctions (and I couldn't say where Bowles comes down on that).

Well, based on salaries, it seems many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the distinctions. That or salary changes have been slow to keep up.

[King Bootz]

Again, it depends on how important you see the few remaining distinctions between LT and RT (one being "blind-side dynamics of right handed QBs").

I couldn't say how many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the importance of those remaining distinctions (and I couldn't say where Bowles comes down on that).

Well, based on salaries, it seems many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the distinctions. That or salary changes have been slow to keep up.

LT salary average- $10.5mil
RT salary average- $7.1mil

3 LTs making more than $20mil/year. Highest paid RT is making $19.2mil/year. If he were an LT that would rank 5th among LTs.

There's definitely a difference.

[Nobody]

Again, it depends on how important you see the few remaining distinctions between LT and RT (one being "blind-side dynamics of right handed QBs").

I couldn't say how many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the importance of those remaining distinctions (and I couldn't say where Bowles comes down on that).

Well, based on salaries, it seems many coaches in the NFL still believe strongly in the distinctions. That or salary changes have been slow to keep up.

Could be both. There is always a lag (maybe 3 - 5 years) with this stuff and you can have weird artifacts like a disproportionate influx of young, 2nd contract LTs suddenly hitting the market in the last few years that really impact things.

Looking at AAVs, I'm seeing:

LT TOP 5 (in Millions): 23, 23, 22, 18, 18
LT MEDIAN TOP 20 AAV: 16

RT TOP 5 (in Millions): 19, 18, 18, 18, 15
RT MEDIAN TOP 20 AAV: 6

So yeah, still deeply in favor of LT perceived value over RT in the NFL.

[King Bootz]

He came from the Titans organization. Interesting that they wouldn't consider him for their own GM opening.

[_MB_]

He came from the Titans organization. Interesting that they wouldn't consider him for their own GM opening.

To fire a head coach is to fire a coaching staff.

To fire a GM is to fire the front office staff.

In both cases the new guy is going to install his own people.

[nybf]

We do have Buffalo as an away opponent this upcoming year.

[Snake]

Lamar what you doin’ baby.

(Declined this before the season)



That’s about the deal I’d do for a QB who is super dependent on athleticism to be effective.

[King Bootz]

$275mil with $133 guaranteed is a joke( in relation to his peers)and they know it.

If I'm Lamar, I got to Harbaugh and ask him to get rid of Greg Roman and get an OC who runs a traditional system. He'll do just fine in that type of system. His weaknesses as a passer are no worse than guys like Josh Allen, Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert. He doesn't have the talent around him like they do and has been type cast because he's a top 1% athlete at the QB position.

[King Bootz]

So this is why they let the guy go to Arizona.

[Buc2]

So this is why they let the guy go to Arizona.

Never heard of him. I wish him the best.

[King Bootz]

So this is why they let the guy go to Arizona.

Never heard of him. I wish him the best.

He came from the Niners organization as one of Lynch's 1st new hires when he got the job in 2017. Not a bad place to look.

[BucsNBills]

Never heard of him. I wish him the best.

He came from the Niners organization as one of Lynch's 1st new hires when he got the job in 2017. Not a bad place to look.

Do the 9ers get yet another "diversity" pick for this hire?

[acmillis]

$275mil with $133 guaranteed is a joke( in relation to his peers)and they know it. That's a slap in the face...and I don't think Lamar deserves that, but he should point to the "going rate" stand, point and laugh, and walk out ASAP.

If I'm Lamar, I got to Harbaugh and ask him to get rid of Greg Roman and get an OC who runs a traditional system. He'll do just fine in that type of system. His weaknesses as a passer are no worse than guys like Josh Allen, Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert. He doesn't have the talent around him like they do and has been type cast because he's a top 1% athlete at the QB position.

QBs have soooo much leverage in today's NFL. If I'm the Ravens (again, I do not believe Lamar is "that dude") I let him know that I'll be placing the tag on him and actively looking for a trade partner who will give him what he wants contract wise. Ravens don't blow their load on a terrible contract, Lamar gets what he wants money-wise, and BAL walks away with (I would think) at least 2 first rounders?

[King Bootz]

He came from the Niners organization as one of Lynch's 1st new hires when he got the job in 2017. Not a bad place to look.

Do the 9ers get yet another "diversity" pick for this hire?

They get 2!

[BucsNBills]

Do the 9ers get yet another "diversity" pick for this hire?

They get 2!

The 49ers have truly found a cheat code for farming extra 3rd round picks.

[Primeminister]

$275mil with $133 guaranteed is a joke( in relation to his peers)and they know it. That's a slap in the face...and I don't think Lamar deserves that, but he should point to the "going rate" stand, point and laugh, and walk out ASAP.

If I'm Lamar, I got to Harbaugh and ask him to get rid of Greg Roman and get an OC who runs a traditional system. He'll do just fine in that type of system. His weaknesses as a passer are no worse than guys like Josh Allen, Kyler Murray or Justin Herbert. He doesn't have the talent around him like they do and has been type cast because he's a top 1% athlete at the QB position.

QBs have soooo much leverage in today's NFL. If I'm the Ravens (again, I do not believe Lamar is "that dude") I let him know that I'll be placing the tag on him and actively looking for a trade partner who will give him what he wants contract wise. Ravens don't blow their load on a terrible contract, Lamar gets what he wants money-wise, and BAL walks away with (I would think) at least 2 first rounders?

Also consider that since Lamar would be on the tag he will have enormous say in where he is sent. If he won’t sign a long term deal with team X there is no way they’re trading a random for him. Baltimore screwed this thing up

[King Bootz]

They get 2!

The 49ers have truly found a cheat code for farming extra 3rd round picks.

Yep, they sure have. Good for them

[BucsNBills]

QBs have soooo much leverage in today's NFL. If I'm the Ravens (again, I do not believe Lamar is "that dude") I let him know that I'll be placing the tag on him and actively looking for a trade partner who will give him what he wants contract wise. Ravens don't blow their load on a terrible contract, Lamar gets what he wants money-wise, and BAL walks away with (I would think) at least 2 first rounders?

Also consider that since Lamar would be on the tag he will have enormous say in where he is sent. If he won’t sign a long term deal with team X there is no way they’re trading a random for him. Baltimore screwed this thing up

It would have to be a team with both the draft capital and financials to take on his enormous contract, while also being a place that would be attractive enough for Lamar to sign his franchise deal and allow the move to happen.

Taking into account where they are in the draft, how much cap space they have, the division their in, and the current stable of weapons...the Falcons make the most sense to me.

Lamar and the Falcons would instantly own the NFC South. He'd have Drake London,Kyle Pitts, Algier and Patterson as his weapons. The Atlanta fan base would welcome him with open arms as the second coming of Mike Vick(without the dog fighting), and he'd instanlty shift the power dynamics of the NFC. In addition, he could escape the log jam in the AFC where Allen, Burrow, and Andy Reid all stand in his way to a championship.

It just makes too much sense and quite frankly I hate it :/

[Primeminister]

Also consider that since Lamar would be on the tag he will have enormous say in where he is sent. If he won’t sign a long term deal with team X there is no way they’re trading a random for him. Baltimore screwed this thing up

It would have to be a team with both the draft capital and financials to take on his enormous contract, while also being a place that would be attractive enough for Lamar to sign his franchise deal and allow the move to happen.

Taking into account where they are in the draft, how much cap space they have, the division their in, and the current stable of weapons...the Falcons make the most sense to me.

Lamar and the Falcons would instantly own the NFC South. He'd have Drake London,Kyle Pitts, Algier and Patterson as his weapons. The Atlanta fan base would welcome him with open arms as the second coming of Mike Vick(without the dog fighting), and he'd instanlty shift the power dynamics of the NFC. In addition, he could escape the log jam in the AFC where Allen, Burrow, and Andy Reid all stand in his way to a championship.

It just makes too much sense and quite frankly I hate it :/

I hate you for making this make sense. Fuck!

[King Bootz]

Also consider that since Lamar would be on the tag he will have enormous say in where he is sent. If he won’t sign a long term deal with team X there is no way they’re trading a random for him. Baltimore screwed this thing up

It would have to be a team with both the draft capital and financials to take on his enormous contract, while also being a place that would be attractive enough for Lamar to sign his franchise deal and allow the move to happen.

Taking into account where they are in the draft, how much cap space they have, the division their in, and the current stable of weapons...the Falcons make the most sense to me.

Lamar and the Falcons would instantly own the NFC South. He'd have Drake London,Kyle Pitts, Algier and Patterson as his weapons. The Atlanta fan base would welcome him with open arms as the second coming of Mike Vick(without the dog fighting), and he'd instanlty shift the power dynamics of the NFC. In addition, he could escape the log jam in the AFC where Allen, Burrow, and Andy Reid all stand in his way to a championship.

It just makes too much sense and quite frankly I hate it :/

Oh God! That's scary to think of but you make perfect sense. I could definitely see the Falcons going after Lamar Jackson.

[Cheb]

Also consider that since Lamar would be on the tag he will have enormous say in where he is sent. If he won’t sign a long term deal with team X there is no way they’re trading a random for him. Baltimore screwed this thing up

It would have to be a team with both the draft capital and financials to take on his enormous contract, while also being a place that would be attractive enough for Lamar to sign his franchise deal and allow the move to happen.

Taking into account where they are in the draft, how much cap space they have, the division their in, and the current stable of weapons...the Falcons make the most sense to me.

Lamar and the Falcons would instantly own the NFC South. He'd have Drake London,Kyle Pitts, Algier and Patterson as his weapons. The Atlanta fan base would welcome him with open arms as the second coming of Mike Vick(without the dog fighting), and he'd instanlty shift the power dynamics of the NFC. In addition, he could escape the log jam in the AFC where Allen, Burrow, and Andy Reid all stand in his way to a championship.

It just makes too much sense and quite frankly I hate it :/

This post makes me feel sick. Would be very smart of them to do this.

[Grahamburn]

Luckily Ridder looked pretty good in his limited time. I imagine he'd be included in part of a deal though. Both the Falcons and Panthers were sniffing around Watson. Makes sense they'd be in on Lamar too.

That being said, why worry too much? The Ravens have been a great organization for years upon years and they've won nothing with Lamar.

[mdb1958]

In the 2023 draft the 49ers have 2 picks in the third, 2 in the fifth, and 2 in the seventh.

Anybody think they will deal Lance?

[King Bootz]

In the 2023 draft the 49ers have 2 picks in the third, 2 in the fifth, and 2 in the seventh.

Anybody think they will deal Lance?

Rehabbing from ankle surgery? For a 4th maybe. But doubtful.

[Snake]

Also consider that since Lamar would be on the tag he will have enormous say in where he is sent. If he won’t sign a long term deal with team X there is no way they’re trading a random for him. Baltimore screwed this thing up

It would have to be a team with both the draft capital and financials to take on his enormous contract, while also being a place that would be attractive enough for Lamar to sign his franchise deal and allow the move to happen.

Taking into account where they are in the draft, how much cap space they have, the division their in, and the current stable of weapons...the Falcons make the most sense to me.

Lamar and the Falcons would instantly own the NFC South. He'd have Drake London,Kyle Pitts, Algier and Patterson as his weapons. The Atlanta fan base would welcome him with open arms as the second coming of Mike Vick(without the dog fighting), and he'd instanlty shift the power dynamics of the NFC. In addition, he could escape the log jam in the AFC where Allen, Burrow, and Andy Reid all stand in his way to a championship.

It just makes too much sense and quite frankly I hate it :/

Lamar seems like a great fit there personality wise. He’ll look great in this uniforms.

I’m not letting Ridder get in the way of that deal. I’m probably sending him the other way, honestly.

[Doctor]

Given how hard they pushed and missed on Watson, got to think our division rivals are going to do it for Lamar.

The money will still be a sticking point. IIRC it was the Browns making the whole thing guaranteed last minute that shot them to the top.

[mdb1958]

Do we want Caleb Williams and how easy could it be for us to make it happen

[King Bootz]

Do we want Caleb Williams and how easy could it be for us to make it happen

Is he coming out this year?

[Snake]

Do we want Caleb Williams and how easy could it be for us to make it happen

We have 16 months to have that convo.