2023 Playoffs General Discussion

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Deja Entendu
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Deja Entendu »

King Bootz wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:23 pm It's either gonna be the Eagles with 2 in 6 seasons or the Chiefs with 2 in 4 seasons. Both are very good organizations from the top.
The Eagles are doing it with a different coaching staff; they’re second HC to get them to the SB in their second season. Crazy.
Al Bundy
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Al Bundy »

Deja Entendu wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:33 pm
King Bootz wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:23 pm It's either gonna be the Eagles with 2 in 6 seasons or the Chiefs with 2 in 4 seasons. Both are very good organizations from the top.
The Eagles are doing it with a different coaching staff; they’re second HC to get them to the SB in their second season. Crazy.
Competent coaching and good drafting gets you there. The Buccaneers aren't good at either of those.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Snake »

I think the Eagles should be the favorites, even if it’s 1 point.

Healthy Mahomes is the best player in nfl. Eagles are more complete imo.

Should be a great one.
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Navybuc
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Navybuc »

Phantom wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:29 pm
Navybuc wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:09 pm Spread is out for Super Bowl 57

Eagles -1
That mean nothing Navy. It will change in two weeks
I don’t think it will change much. Should stay around that number unless Mahomes ankle doesn’t get better. If he is limping around like he was today, I think Eagles win easy.
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King Bootz
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by King Bootz »

Florio must have had Drake type money on the Bengals. He is such a coward tweeting from the PFT Twitter page.

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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Snake »

At the risk of slandering my own environment, I find Florio’s elevation from blogging anonymous shitposter to professional verified shitposter to be disturbing.
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Doctor
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Doctor »

And 9ers could've had Mahomes
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King Bootz
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by King Bootz »

Doctor wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:02 pm And 9ers could've had Mahomes
The biggest egg goes to the Bears & Bills. The Bears traded up to #2 for Mitchell Trubisky, who was pretty average in college but he “looked” the part(we’re not going there tonight). The Bills had the #10 pick and could’ve taken Mahomes, but had recently signed Tyrol Taylor to a $92mil contract. They ultimately traded back with KC and less than a year later shipped Taylor to Cleveland.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Snake »

Eagles took the largest dead cap hit in history after 2020 season by ridding themselves of Wentz.

Now look at them.
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King Bootz
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by King Bootz »

Snake wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:30 pm Eagles took the largest dead cap hit in history after 2020 season by ridding themselves of Wentz.

Now look at them.
And they still made the playoffs.

We're about to up them, Brady's dead cap is $35mil+. Maybe that'll be us in 2024.
Al Bundy
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Al Bundy »

King Bootz wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:32 pm
Snake wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:30 pm Eagles took the largest dead cap hit in history after 2020 season by ridding themselves of Wentz.

Now look at them.
And they still made the playoffs.

We're about to up them, Brady's dead cap is $35mil+. Maybe that'll be us in 2024.
Only if the Buccaneers bottom out this year and get the #1 overall pick.
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MJW
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:12 pm
Doctor wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:02 pm And 9ers could've had Mahomes
The biggest egg goes to the Bears & Bills. The Bears traded up to #2 for Mitchell Trubisky, who was pretty average in college but he “looked” the part(we’re not going there tonight). The Bills had the #10 pick and could’ve taken Mahomes, but had recently signed Tyrol Taylor to a $92mil contract. They ultimately traded back with KC and less than a year later shipped Taylor to Cleveland.
I could see not being enamored with Mahomes, honestly. The arm talent was insane, but he threw 25 INTs over his last two years in college in a dumbshit two read Kliff Kingsbury offense. He had plenty of lowlights. I don't really remember anyone before that draft - here or in the media - banging on the table for him. He was basically the Will Levis of that draft. Huge upside, but "out of the league after his rookie contract" type floor.
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MJW
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by MJW »

Also worth noting that he basically landed in one of the best situations ever. Andy Reid is one of the greatest offensive coaches in NFL history, especially in terms of quarterbacks. He went to a team that was already making the AFC Championship Game. He went to a team with a great line. He went to a team with an emerging Tyreek Hill. He went to a team where he got to redshirt for a year in an era when that basically never happens. He sat in a QB room with Alex Smith, who by all accounts was basically another coach.

You could make a case that no Top Ten quarterback has EVER been in a better spot for success.

That's not to take anything away from Mahomes. But ask yourself this - if he DID end up in Chicago, playing for John Fox and throwing to Kendall Wright and Josh Bellamy, or he DID end up in Cleveland, playing for Hue Jackson and throwing to Ricardo Lewis and Corey Coleman...does anyone think he'd be PATRICK MAHOMES right now?
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13F11B
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by 13F11B »

MJW wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:13 am That's not to take anything away from Mahomes. But ask yourself this - if he DID end up in Chicago, playing for John Fox and throwing to Kendall Wright and Josh Bellamy, or he DID end up in Cleveland, playing for Hue Jackson and throwing to Ricardo Lewis and Corey Coleman...does anyone think he'd be PATRICK MAHOMES right now?
I get what you are saying. He would still be Patrick Mahomes, but he would not have a ring nor would he be in the discussion for top QB in the league. As many QBs have said. They get too much credit when the team wins... and too much credit when the team loses. It is a team game. Something Brady knows and is likely the reason he took less money each year than other top-tier QBs. He wanted a team around him not a collection of guys they could afford.
Al Bundy
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Al Bundy »

MJW wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:13 am Also worth noting that he basically landed in one of the best situations ever. Andy Reid is one of the greatest offensive coaches in NFL history, especially in terms of quarterbacks. He went to a team that was already making the AFC Championship Game. He went to a team with a great line. He went to a team with an emerging Tyreek Hill. He went to a team where he got to redshirt for a year in an era when that basically never happens. He sat in a QB room with Alex Smith, who by all accounts was basically another coach.

You could make a case that no Top Ten quarterback has EVER been in a better spot for success.

That's not to take anything away from Mahomes. But ask yourself this - if he DID end up in Chicago, playing for John Fox and throwing to Kendall Wright and Josh Bellamy, or he DID end up in Cleveland, playing for Hue Jackson and throwing to Ricardo Lewis and Corey Coleman...does anyone think he'd be PATRICK MAHOMES right now?
I think landing behind Alex Smith and with Reid are the biggest factors, he was able to sit behind Smith and more importantly work on his foot work which was a problem. But Mitch Turbisky would not have succeeded like Mahomes has.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by King Bootz »

He didn't learn this from Andy Reid



Mahomes would be great no matter who's coaching him. He has tools and can make plays other QBs can only dream of. A laser for a TD from a collapsing pocket throwing off the wrong foot? You can't teach that.

You never hear these arguments for other great QBs that their coach made them. All Mahomes has done in 5 seasons as a starter is made 5 straight AFC Championships, 3 Super Bowls, won an MVP & a SB MVP and people still want to question Mahomes greatness? Fuck outta here.
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Doctor
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Doctor »

Yes you we do hear them for other QBs and you should hear them more.

We love the "he was destined to be great" narrative in sports, it makes our hero that much more mighty. It's a buzz kill to think so many of our GOATS would be lost to history if their situations were not what they were.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by King Bootz »

Doctor wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am Yes you we do hear them for other QBs and you should hear them more.

We love the "he was destined to be great" narrative in sports, it makes our hero that much more mighty. It's a buzz kill to think so many of our GOATS would be lost to history if their situations were not what they were.
Point me to a time where Joe Montana or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Burrow even were labeled as products of the system. They weren't.

Andy Reid is great. But you'd think every QB he ever worked with turned into an unquestioned HOFer or multiple time MVP. That's not the case.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Deja Entendu »

King Bootz wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:14 am
Doctor wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am Yes you we do hear them for other QBs and you should hear them more.

We love the "he was destined to be great" narrative in sports, it makes our hero that much more mighty. It's a buzz kill to think so many of our GOATS would be lost to history if their situations were not what they were.
Point me to a time where Joe Montana or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Burrow even were labeled as products of the system. They weren't.

Andy Reid is great. But you'd think every QB he ever worked with turned into an unquestioned HOFer or multiple time MVP. That's not the case.
Really?? That was one of the biggest knocks/debates about Brady with Belichick… then he came here and answered that question once and for all.

Montana had his doubters too, and then took KC to the AFCCG.

You’re right about Manning though.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by King Bootz »

Deja Entendu wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:43 am
King Bootz wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:14 am

Point me to a time where Joe Montana or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Burrow even were labeled as products of the system. They weren't.

Andy Reid is great. But you'd think every QB he ever worked with turned into an unquestioned HOFer or multiple time MVP. That's not the case.
Really?? That was one of the biggest knocks/debates about Brady with Belichick… then he came here and answered that question once and for all.

Montana had his doubters too, and then took KC to the AFCCG.

You’re right about Manning though.
Wait…
Tell me you’re not saying Brady wasn’t labeled as the GOAT until February 2021. Please tell me you aren’t going there…
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Deja Entendu »

Manning and Burrow’s reputation began in college, so their rise was seen as their natural course.

Mahomes was definitely a project, and wound up in an incredibly fortunate situation. His talent is out of this world and undeniable, but to think he hasn’t benefited from a likely top 5 coach of all time is silly.

The history of the league is littered with incredible talent that never lived up to their potential due to where they ended up.

That’s not a knock on Mahomes, it’s just reality.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Deja Entendu »

King Bootz wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:51 am
Deja Entendu wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:43 am

Really?? That was one of the biggest knocks/debates about Brady with Belichick… then he came here and answered that question once and for all.

Montana had his doubters too, and then took KC to the AFCCG.

You’re right about Manning though.
Wait…
Tell me you’re not saying Brady wasn’t labeled as the GOAT until February 2021. Please tell me you aren’t going there…
Sure: Nope, that’s not at all what I was saying.

I was saying there was always a debate amongst Brady detractors about if it was him or Belichick. He left and immediately won, and even the biggest detractors (not trolls) had their answer.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Doctor »

I literally just said we should in fact hear it MORE. Brady heard it his whole career, why you think he had to win here?

You hear it less with #1 picks because they already have their savior narrative baked right into their careers.

But the reality is there is no such thing. Despite how much draft groupies want there to be.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by 13F11B »

Doctor wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:05 am I literally just said we should in fact hear it MORE. Brady heard it his whole career, why you think he had to win here?

You hear it less with #1 picks because they already have their savior narrative baked right into their careers.

But the reality is there is no such thing. Despite how much draft groupies want there to be.
Agreed. For every Peyton Manning there are several failures (Vince Young, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell) and many more just another guy type players (Jameis Winston, Steve Bartkowski, Vinny Testaverde, Jeff George, Drew Bledsoe, Carson Palmer). Hell David Carr may have been a hall-of-fame quarterback if he had not been sacked 249 times in Houston. We will never know how much that affected him.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Deja Entendu »

Imagine if Mike Vick linked up with Andy Reid before jail.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by 13F11B »

Deja Entendu wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:23 am Imagine if Mike Vick linked up with Andy Reid before jail.
That would have helped him a great deal. No so much the Andy Reid part, but the not facing the Warren Sapp Buccaneers defense twice a year. He used to get smacked around quite a bit by the Buccaneers back then. :-)
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Doctor »

Vick had a deep ball but was god awful at hitting just a simple screen at times.

Also, you have no idea how the rest of life can impact a player. Even if scouts and teams were actually good at scouting players and breaking down tape to separate the real ballers from the pretenders... and even if we somehow could get accurate insight into a players heart and soul in a 15 min interview.... even if we could do all that and be able to scout/draft accurately, life still happens.

And it happens/affects people in different ways. Do you think learning your dad has a second family or your sister slit her wrist your rookie year can't derail someone? It can. Hell, going from broke to millionaire can be a total mind fuck. And we can double down on the hero worship and say so-and-so would overcome, but we don't know that. We just saw the most focused player of all time get derailed by a divorce.

So yes, in the end, situation matters. Hell, situation is everything.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by 13F11B »

Doctor wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:06 pm So yes, in the end, situation matters. Hell, situation is everything.
I agree. I agree.

But even with the best situation in the world, I would never have the athletic ability that Mahomes or Allen have. :-)
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Doctor »

Also true. There is a minimum height requirement to ride that ride.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Heisenberg »

King Bootz wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:14 am
Doctor wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:10 am Yes you we do hear them for other QBs and you should hear them more.

We love the "he was destined to be great" narrative in sports, it makes our hero that much more mighty. It's a buzz kill to think so many of our GOATS would be lost to history if their situations were not what they were.
Point me to a time where Joe Montana or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Joe Burrow even were labeled as products of the system. They weren't.

Andy Reid is great. But you'd think every QB he ever worked with turned into an unquestioned HOFer or multiple time MVP. That's not the case.
Huh? In Brady VS manning debates, people saying Brady is/ may be a system qb was a main point of discussion before the bucs. I saw it everywhere on SM. Ofc knowledgable fans didn't think this way but about every time a discussion of the two happened that was always brought up.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Doctor »

I mean, to be clear, Brady winning 7 rings is still very much a product of BB providing stellar counterbalance to Brady with consistently great defense. Brady without BB isn't sniffing this many rings.

Look at Peyton Colts, Brees Saints, Rodgers Packers, and Mahomes Chiefs.
All legendary. One chip each.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by wesmon »

Al Bundy wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:23 am
MJW wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:13 am Also worth noting that he basically landed in one of the best situations ever. Andy Reid is one of the greatest offensive coaches in NFL history, especially in terms of quarterbacks. He went to a team that was already making the AFC Championship Game. He went to a team with a great line. He went to a team with an emerging Tyreek Hill. He went to a team where he got to redshirt for a year in an era when that basically never happens. He sat in a QB room with Alex Smith, who by all accounts was basically another coach.

You could make a case that no Top Ten quarterback has EVER been in a better spot for success.

That's not to take anything away from Mahomes. But ask yourself this - if he DID end up in Chicago, playing for John Fox and throwing to Kendall Wright and Josh Bellamy, or he DID end up in Cleveland, playing for Hue Jackson and throwing to Ricardo Lewis and Corey Coleman...does anyone think he'd be PATRICK MAHOMES right now?
I think landing behind Alex Smith and with Reid are the biggest factors, he was able to sit behind Smith and more importantly work on his foot work which was a problem. But Mitch Turbisky would not have succeeded like Mahomes has.
It would have been interesting to see Justin Fields with a real NFL team though
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by Sdbucs »

The uncalled holding on like 3 different o-line on that final Mahomes run

Sureeee does seem like a lot of mobile QBs are the beneficiaries of holding O-lines.

It’s like the refs don’t call holding once the pocket breaks down a little

If those holds occur on a run play it gets called back more often than not. But it’s ok when Mahomes/other QB is the runner
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by 13F11B »

Sdbucs wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:52 am The uncalled holding on like 3 different o-line on that final Mahomes run

Sureeee does seem like a lot of mobile QBs are the beneficiaries of holding O-lines.

It’s like the refs don’t call holding once the pocket breaks down a little

If those holds occur on a run play it gets called back more often than not. But it’s ok when Mahomes/other QB is the runner
I think all the don't tackle the QB this way rules have helped running QBs be viable in the NFL. If this was the 1980s there would be a lot more injuries to these running QBs. I can only imagine what Randall Cunningham would have looked like in the current NFL.
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Re: 2023 Playoffs General Discussion

Post by MJW »

King Bootz wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:53 am He didn't learn this from Andy Reid



Mahomes would be great no matter who's coaching him. He has tools and can make plays other QBs can only dream of. A laser for a TD from a collapsing pocket throwing off the wrong foot? You can't teach that.

You never hear these arguments for other great QBs that their coach made them. All Mahomes has done in 5 seasons as a starter is made 5 straight AFC Championships, 3 Super Bowls, won an MVP & a SB MVP and people still want to question Mahomes greatness? Fuck outta here.
Who are you talking to? Nobody said these things. I didn't even IMPLY them. You're incapable of addressing the conversation on it's own terms but you still want to hear yourself talk.

Andy Reid's Chiefs + Mahomes talent is one of the greatest marriages in NFL history.

If you think Patrick Mahomes goes to Chicago and is winning MVPs and Superbowls playing for John Fox, it's way too early to be that drunk.
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