***Official 2023 NFL Draft Thread***

[mdb1958]

Is stubby armed Skoronski gonna shine against the big dogs?

[Doctor]

MJW, why the Paris Johnson Jr hate?

Still adding names but this is what I have so far, no order just BPA tiers

Blue Chip Tier:
Bryce Young
CJ Stroud
Jalen Carter
Will Anderson
Brian Branch
Bijan Robinson

Great Tier:
Peter Skoronski
Devon Witherspoon
Christian Gonzalez
Paris Johnson Jr
Broderick Jones
Quentin Johnston

Good Tier:
Anton Harrison
Kelee Ringo
Devon Banks


Not feeling:
Cam Smith
Joey Porter Jr
O'Cyrus Torrence

[Doctor]

Damn Cheb, I was just about to create a Big Board thread!

Feel free to do so. I'd expand upon what I have already done to allow for trade downs, and trading down would be a smart move by Licht. Adding another second or third or fourth rounder in this draft would be HUGE, imo. The talent difference between #19 and say #26 isn't that big, and there's plenty of gems to mine in those upper-middle rounds.

Agree, I would love a trade down. This draft is THICK in day 2. I don't think I'd trade down if any of my top two tier guys are still there, but after that I'm all for it.

[Bootz]

@real bucs fan Do you still have that weird infatuation with the RB position?

This whole narrative came from my insistence to take advantage of the epic 2017 RB class. Had we drafted Kamara or Cook on Day 2 like I wanted to, I don’t think we’d have regretted it.

This also appears to be a great RB draft, but for the first time in forever I believe we have a legitimate young talent at the position in Rachaad White. Finding a bruiser to pair with him wouldn’t be the worst idea, Zach Charbonnett would be great in that role but not sure I want to spend a Day 2 pick on a 1B.

More than anything I’m a believer in taking advantage of the strengths of drafts. This year I like the CB group in the first round.

The CB class appears to be very deep this year. It usually is but there are several guys we'll hopefully look to add early on.

[Phantom]

Is stubby armed Skoronski gonna shine against the big dogs?

to answer to your question. YES

[Bootz]

[Grahamburn]

Skoronski/Jones/Johnson and the subsequent release of Donovan Smith would make my draft night.

[Snake]

Yes, there’s a great nutritionist by the name of Mr. T. Osterone.

Tren Hard.
Eat Clen.
And Test your limits!

[Doctor]

Skoronski/Jones/Johnson and the subsequent release of Donovan Smith would make my draft night.

I think we're all on board with that. Heck pre release.

[Bootz]

If the draft fell this way, would you call Detroit about #6 overall to take Stroud? I would. Would definitely take #19, 2024 1st, and maybe 2025. But you need a QB.

[Snake]

If the draft fell this way, would you call Detroit about #6 overall to take Stroud? I would. Would definitely take #19, 2024 1st, and maybe 2025. But you need a QB.

I was gonna say, maybe wait another pick or two…but you really can’t. you have QB needy teams in the next few spots. Could be a small bidding war.

I go back-and-forth on Stroud. That Georgia film is gold. He showed a lot of skills there that he otherwise hadn’t before. He is far less athletic than Fields, but he is athletic enough. I’ve seen some concerning metrics about his ability to sit in the pocket under pressure and deliver the ball, but everyone performs worse under pressure.

I only bring up Fields because they were in the same offense, by-and-large.

[Bootz]

If the draft fell this way, would you call Detroit about #6 overall to take Stroud? I would. Would definitely take #19, 2024 1st, and maybe 2025. But you need a QB.

I was gonna say, maybe wait another pick or two…but you really can’t. you have QB needy teams in the next few spots. Could be a small bidding war.

I go back-and-forth on Stroud. That Georgia film is gold. He showed a lot of skills there that he otherwise hadn’t before. He is far less athletic than Fields, but he is athletic enough. I’ve seen some concerning metrics about his ability to sit in the pocket under pressure and deliver the ball, but everyone performs worse under pressure.

I only bring up Fields because they were in the same offense, by-and-large.

Right behind them at 7 is Vegas. They'd take him without question and in reality will probably move up to try and get one of the QBs.

I like where Stroud is at as a passer. He's never gonna be one who excels against pressure, and if I'm being honest he gets tremendously worst against it. But he does the other things so well. Accurate with the football and makes great decisions overall. And yes he is athletic enough.

Come April he will no doubt be long gone by pick 6. But in the event he sometimes slides to 6, I'm giving Detroit a call and a solid offer.

[BucsNBills]

If the draft fell this way, would you call Detroit about #6 overall to take Stroud? I would. Would definitely take #19, 2024 1st, and maybe 2025. But you need a QB.

If we're not going to try and tank for Caleb, then sure, I'd be down for it. Stroud is the safest best this year imo. He may not have the crazy upside but i think his floor is pretty high. If he gives us consistent 2022 Geno Smith numbers, I think that's a home run pick for us.

[Cheb]

If the draft fell this way, would you call Detroit about #6 overall to take Stroud? I would. Would definitely take #19, 2024 1st, and maybe 2025. But you need a QB.

The next Ohio State quarterback who isn't a huge bust will be the first one. Fields is just okay (certainly not a great passer) and he's the best of the bunch. I theorize that it's because those quarterbacks are buoyed up by one of the best receiver rooms in the country every year; just look at the professional talent disparities between Ohio State receivers and the quarterbacks who feed them -- it's night and day.

No thanks.

And speaking in a broader context, trading up for anyone this year I think is foolish, much less trading up and giving away two or three first round picks. I'd much rather stick with Trask and give him two or three very talented players if he's the dude, or use that ammo next season if we suck to move into position for a franchise guy.

[Bootz]

If the draft fell this way, would you call Detroit about #6 overall to take Stroud? I would. Would definitely take #19, 2024 1st, and maybe 2025. But you need a QB.

The next Ohio State quarterback who isn't a huge bust will be the first one. Field is just okay (certainly not a great passer) and he's the best of the bunch.

No thanks.

Now you know as much as your perspective is valued and respected, this is a discussion you have to sit out.

[BucsNBills]

Since the new OC sees the QB as a point guard, wouldn't Stroud fit that perfect? Great accuracy and touch but the ability to deliver the fast ball when needed. The Georgia game proved he has the mobility needed for the modern NFL, even if he's not a crazy elite athlete. And he seems to read the field well overall.

Doubt it happens but I'd be very happy if we end up with Stroud as our QB.

[Bootz]

Since the new OC sees the QB as a point guard, wouldn't Stroud fit that perfect? Great accuracy and touch but the ability to deliver the fast ball when needed. The Georgia game proved he has the mobility needed for the modern NFL, even if he's not a crazy elite athlete. And he seems to read the field well overall.

Doubt it happens but I'd be very happy if we end up with Stroud as our QB.

That's a solid point too. I don't think he's going to be a mistake heavy QB. Might not be an annual MVP candidate but he will provide stability, playmaking skills and talent to the position. If he needs to carry the team some it won't be out of his element either.

Now it definitely won't happen of course. I think Stroud doesn't get past Houston honestly. But IF he did fall to 6 somehow, we'd be wise to try.

[Snake]

Since the new OC sees the QB as a point guard, wouldn't Stroud fit that perfect? Great accuracy and touch but the ability to deliver the fast ball when needed. The Georgia game proved he has the mobility needed for the modern NFL, even if he's not a crazy elite athlete. And he seems to read the field well overall.

Doubt it happens but I'd be very happy if we end up with Stroud as our QB.

That's a solid point too. I don't think he's going to be a mistake heavy QB. Might not be an annual MVP candidate but he will provide stability, playmaking skills and talent to the position. If he needs to carry the team some it won't be out of his element either.

Now it definitely won't happen of course. I think Stroud doesn't get past Houston honestly. But IF he did fall to 6 somehow, we'd be wise to try.

would you rather make the deal you described for Stroud, or a lesser deal for Mac Jones?

[Cheb]

The next Ohio State quarterback who isn't a huge bust will be the first one. Field is just okay (certainly not a great passer) and he's the best of the bunch.

No thanks.

Now you know as much as your perspective is valued and respected, this is a discussion you have to sit out.

Not hardly, because last I checked the list of Ohio State quarterback busts is just as long as the list of Ohio State quarterbacks in the NFL. The only leg Ohio State has to stand on is Justin Fields, who is yet young and objectively thus far is not a great passer. And when the overwhelming majority of a position group from a school stonewalls in the NFL, you'd be foolish to not think twice about picking a dude from that same school.

How many Dewayne Haskins or Cardell Joneses or Terrell Pryors or Braxton Millers or JT Barretts or Joe Bausermans or Troy Smiths do you need to see flame outta the league before it makes you concerned?

I expanded upon my previous post. Feel free to read it.

[Bootz]

That's a solid point too. I don't think he's going to be a mistake heavy QB. Might not be an annual MVP candidate but he will provide stability, playmaking skills and talent to the position. If he needs to carry the team some it won't be out of his element either.

Now it definitely won't happen of course. I think Stroud doesn't get past Houston honestly. But IF he did fall to 6 somehow, we'd be wise to try.

would you rather make the deal you described for Stroud, or a lesser deal for Mac Jones?

I'd rather try to make a deal for Mac if the Pats made him available. More experience, he would cost less, still had 3 years left of team control at a low price. You can debate who has more talent or would be a better fit. But given the circumstances, Mac would provide more value.

[Bootz]

Now you know as much as your perspective is valued and respected, this is a discussion you have to sit out.

Not hardly, because last I checked the list of Ohio State quarterback busts is just as long as the list of Ohio State quarterbacks in the NFL. The only leg Ohio State has to stand on is Justin Fields, who is yet young and objectively thus far is not a great passer. And when the overwhelming majority of a position group from a school stonewalls in the NFL, you'd be foolish to not think twice about picking a dude from that same school.

How many Dewayne Haskins or Cardell Joneses or Terrell Pryors or Braxton Millers or JT Barretts or Joe Bausermans or Troy Smiths do you need to see flame outta the league before it makes you concerned?

I expanded upon my previous post. Feel free to read it.

So are you saying Joe Burrow would've been a bust if he stayed at OSU?

Subplot: "Michigan guy sour on Ohio State QB prospect"

[mdb1958]

Since the new OC sees the QB as a point guard, wouldn't Stroud fit that perfect? Great accuracy and touch but the ability to deliver the fast ball when needed. The Georgia game proved he has the mobility needed for the modern NFL, even if he's not a crazy elite athlete. And he seems to read the field well overall.

Doubt it happens but I'd be very happy if we end up with Stroud as our QB.

This is the Point Guard that would have cost us so little.


Forum: The Tampa Bay Buccaneers/NFL Teams
Topic: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread
Replies: 647
Views: 7325
Re: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread
Just saw this! Short QB, but a 71% passer in 2022. He makes it work.

https://www.wtae.com/article/pittsburgh ... t/42928992

Well crap. Lyndsey Scott Jr.

[Snake]

Karl Brooks shows up in a lot of these mocks. What can you tell me about him, @mdb1958

5 year player at Bowling Green.
6'4 DT. Showed up at BG at 235 lbs. Left at 300 lbs. He also played WR in HS.



#44.

Clips of him engaging/moving against B1G competition:

5:30, 7:22, 7:48, 10:35, 12:35, 15:17, 16:47.

Looks like they played him on the end mostly. In this game anyway. The 16:47 clip demonstrates some explosion/ability. not an edge guy (obviously). Lacks fluidity there. Seems like 5-tech would be the end goal. I see some tweener tendencies though. Which I don't love. Playing low at 6'4 on the interior isn't easy. Curious how long his arms are.

Like the aggression though.

[MJW]

MJW, why the Paris Johnson Jr hate?

I'm at "Am I taking crazy pills?!" levels of confusion with the hype. I see high play, bad footwork and a narrow base that he was able to compensate for with athletic superiority he won't be able to rely on in the pros. I see a lot of lunging. I see him over-committing but not getting in trouble - now - because not that many guys have a full arsenal of counter moves. And I see a lot of holds that WILL be called in extended pass blocking situations. Most of his Youtube Highlight extended blocks involve fistfulls of jersey.

The best thing about him is he's an elite mover...elite...and I can see that appealing to a ZBS team that thinks they can coach the other issues out of him. But the problem is, nobody gives a shit if your franchise left tackle can pull or screen if he struggles elsewhere.

If I had to liken him to someone at this point, I see former USC/Saints LT Charles Brown. Movement skills, ideal length, but I think he's going to be exposed. I'd like him a lot more at guard.

[MJW]

The good news is I'm in the minority opinion so there's no chance we should be tempted.

In the meantime, Skoronski is a far, far better left tackle, but he'll be drafted 5-15 picks later because his arms will be a quarter-inch shorter than ideal or something. Muh underwear olympics.

[Cheb]

Not hardly, because last I checked the list of Ohio State quarterback busts is just as long as the list of Ohio State quarterbacks in the NFL. The only leg Ohio State has to stand on is Justin Fields, who is yet young and objectively thus far is not a great passer. And when the overwhelming majority of a position group from a school stonewalls in the NFL, you'd be foolish to not think twice about picking a dude from that same school.

How many Dewayne Haskins or Cardell Joneses or Terrell Pryors or Braxton Millers or JT Barretts or Joe Bausermans or Troy Smiths do you need to see flame outta the league before it makes you concerned?

I expanded upon my previous post. Feel free to read it.

So are you saying Joe Burrow would've been a bust if he stayed at OSU?

Subplot: "Michigan guy sour on Ohio State QB prospect"

When you can't attack an argument, whatabouting is a poor substitute. But I'll play your game.

In short, who knows what would have happened if Burrow had stayed at OSU, but if we think about it, it's probably not great for him.

Prior to transferring to LSU, Burrow lost the OSU QB battle to Haskins in 2018. Haskins left in the draft after that year, so Joe woulda had a shot at the job in 2019. But off the top rope comes Justin Fields from Georgia. If Fields had still transferred for Georgia to Ohio State at that time, there's a non-zero chance that Burrow loses that competition as well. In such a universe, Joe Burrow never gets a chance to show his skills on a college field for any period of time and enters the draft with a very slim resumè. Hence why he transferred, so he could play.

Could that alternative universe Joe Burrow have been the next Matt Cassel, a collegiate career backup who made good as a journeyman backup and occasional starter in the pros? Maybe. Would he be guaranteed to be Joe Burrow, Number One Overall Pick and Savior of the Cincinnati Bengals, had he stayed at Ohio State? Probably not.

Going to LSU with Justin Jefferson and Ja'Marr Chase and those other weapons on that team in that spread offense at that moment was serendipitous for all involved, lightning in a bottle. And sometimes you have to leave a place in order to thrive.

Heck, look at Jameson Williams, who couldn't even see the field at Ohio State -- transfers to Bama, becomes an All-American in a year, and becomes the 12th overall pick in his draft. Had he stayed at OSU, who knows what woulda happened.

[Snake]

It’s pretty interesting to me that Ryan Day and Meyer had Burrow in their QB room and decided “you know what…I need to go outside for other options.”

[Doctor]

Speaking of OSU, I'm really starting to like OT Dewan Jones in Day 2. Former basketball player and still a mountain of a man. Move Wirfs over to the left. Jensen at center, and see if we can find two starting guards in Hainsey, Leverett, Goedeke, Stinnie (rs). That could be a pretty darn good line for Bijan to run behind.

[BucsNBills]

Speaking of OSU, I'm really starting to like OT Dewan Jones in Day 2. Former basketball player and still a mountain of a man. Move Wirfs over to the left. Jensen at center, and see if we can find two starting guards in Hainsey, Leverett, Goedeke, Stinnie (rs). That could be a pretty darn good line for Bijan to run behind.

I like that plan, my only reservation is if Jones has the movement needed for the likely zone scheme we'll be running. If he can, he's going to be a god damn unstoppable object coming off the line and destroy DE's and LBs.

[Sdbucs]

I like Darnell Washington in 2nd/3rd. Our current offensive setup loves a big blocking TE like Washington.

Current dream scenario would be Luke Van Ness, Darnell Washington, and O-line with our first 3 picks.

[Cheb]

Speaking of OSU, I'm really starting to like OT Dewan Jones in Day 2. Former basketball player and still a mountain of a man. Move Wirfs over to the left. Jensen at center, and see if we can find two starting guards in Hainsey, Leverett, Goedeke, Stinnie (rs). That could be a pretty darn good line for Bijan to run behind.

I noticed Dewan Jones in Senior Bowl in OL/DL 1-on-1s. On a field full of massive humans, he was even moreso, and he moves pretty well for a dude of that size. I wouldn't be too upset with him in the second, but if we are really going to turn into a predominantly zone-blocking team, I wonder about his fit.

[BucsNBills]

Blake Freeland is another tackle I had my eye on. Most of reports I read on him mentions that he's basically designed for outside zone blocking and he could be a guy that's there in the third.

[Doctor]

Day 2 is going to be loaded with OL talent. Which could lead people to pass on the OL talent early and have one of the top OTs fall to us at 19. Or maybe we are the ones going OL Day 2. This is such a talented class in a lot of areas.

[Snake]

The word is Bryce Young was 175 pounds soaking wet at Alabama.

[Cheb]

The word is Bryce Young was 175 pounds soaking wet at Alabama.

He's a very good player, but I fear for his health.

The first time he's hit by a guy like Jordan Davis, he will fold like a pretzel. The second time he's gonna break something.