Tampa Bay Buccaneers Official 2023 Off Season Thread

[MJW]

NFL positional spending.

WR - we spent the most. (we struggled)
OL - we spent the 4th most (we struggled)
LB - we spent the 4th most (didnt seem like our usual strength)

All three positions have no high and up and coming prospect on our roster. My one hope is the o-line went into the offseason dedicated to showing improvement, that would be a huge positive for us.

Where'd you get this info? I'd be interested to read it.

Our wideouts were a disaster. Evans was inconsistent as hell. Goodwin only started to look like Godwin later in the year. Gage was banged up, and all of our pups/depth underachieved. I could mention that Thad Lewis getting a promotion with that in mind seems odd, but whatever.

Our OL...the Jensen injury and the Marpet retirement were both body blows not many teams move past easily. Donovan Smith regressed from "Shitty" to "Ultra Shitty." The Goedeke pick was a disaster. Mason and Wirfs were both rocks, but when one side of your line is a toilet, it doesn't matter how good the other side is.

Linebacker, ugh. Devin White was alternately a monster and an absolute fucking joke. I don't give him his money next offseason, but I'm sure we will. LVD was LVD. Shaq was doing crap when he got hurt, and JTS is dangerously close to topping out at a C+ player. A general lack of depth hurt us here, as it did many other places.

All three of these spots sum us up nicely: we had some big names, a ton of inconsistency and underachieving, and zero depth.

[mdb1958]

@MJW - Spotrac

[mdb1958]

It's not really about blowing anything up as all moves that would benefit the cap are all 29 years old or older. So it's a matter of getting younger.

[mdb1958]

The majority of our cap woes are all tied to 17 players and that's still counting Brady. I call to question of how many of them would become multiyear starters and most could be called upon to take a pay cut the very next year after signing with a new team.

My - it is what it is opinion..

[Doctor]

Interesting viewpoint MJW. Let me offer another.

WR is due for a major bounce-back.
We've discussed ad nauseam everything that went wrong with the offense last year. Of all those, the only one that maybe concerns me of actually returning in 2023 is Evans yips, but dude has earned enough to get the benefit of the doubt that those are behind him. So much so he likely get an extension here soon.
ACL remains a two year injury. Point blank. It was great to see Godwin back and doing his thing, but he looked "one year removed" as hell out there for a large part of the early season. This is year 2. This should be 100% healthy, all that upside we know is there, Godwin. And third we have Russell Gage who was hamstrung by injury all year. There's a reason that's an expression because hamstrings suck. Especially when you keep reaggravating it rushing back to get your reps in with Brady, "take on a big role early" and not waste this window year. The biggest arrow in Gage's quiver is he has a violent burst off the line. He then turn that into nasty out routes or stop on dime comebacks, we saw Metcalf milk this. We're pretending he didn't play on one leg all year. This brings up the final point- all these guys now get Canales and Idzik. Who know how to bleed a stone.

[mdb1958]

Don't see Evans going anywhere without a top three being used for WR. Julio only knocks off 6 mil.

[Bootz]

Don't see Evans going anywhere without a top three being used for WR. Julio only knocks off 6 mil.

I'm not in the trade Evans camp by any means. But trading him means you're using whatever resources you get to replace him.

[mdb1958]

Don't see Evans going anywhere without a top three being used for WR. Julio only knocks off 6 mil.

I'm not in the trade Evans camp by any means. But trading him means you're using whatever resources you get to replace him.

2023
Brady - 15
Hicks - 8
Jones - 6
2024
D Smith - 15.5
Mason - 9
Brate - 6.8
Succop - 4

64.3 million

[real bucs fan]

The main issues last year were as follows:

1: lack of quality control on offence. Arians system is very complicated, requires everyone to be on the same page, and without Arians breathing down necks, the attention to detail suffered. Guys had bad reads, guys effort fell off (Donovan Smith), and guys suffered from uncharacteristic drops and fumbles.

2: poor run blocking. Losing our entire interior OL hurt us. We just didn’t get the same movement up front.

3: inconsistent pass rush. JTS didn’t take the expected step, and we lost Shaq for the year. The results spoke for themselves when Anthony Nelson and Carl Nassib are two of your most effective edges.

I think the new offensive system should help the first issue, as Caneles system is very player friendly. Jensen coming back should help the run blocking plus hopefully one of the young lineman take a step. In regards to the pass rush, hopefully Shaq comes back 100% and JTS can elevate.

So ultimately it could come down to Trask and how quickly he can learn the offence and execute within it.

[mdb1958]

Run Game

2019 - 3.7 yards per carry
2020 - 4.1
2021 - 4.3
2022 - 3.4

[Doctor]

To be fair to Smith he played through a bum elbow.

[mdb1958]

To be fair to Smith he played through a bum elbow.

He still received his dream from us.

[Phantom]

“That was honestly I think greatest team I’ve ever played against”

Travis Kielce on the 2020 Buccaneers

Keep in mind KC Chiefs with Patrick Mahomes are 2-1 in Super Bowl

[MJW]

Interesting viewpoint MJW. Let me offer another.

WR is due for a major bounce-back.
We've discussed ad nauseam everything that went wrong with the offense last year. Of all those, the only one that maybe concerns me of actually returning in 2023 is Evans yips, but dude has earned enough to get the benefit of the doubt that those are behind him. So much so he likely get an extension here soon.
ACL remains a two year injury. Point blank. It was great to see Godwin back and doing his thing, but he looked "one year removed" as hell out there for a large part of the early season. This is year 2. This should be 100% healthy, all that upside we know is there, Godwin. And third we have Russell Gage who was hamstrung by injury all year. There's a reason that's an expression because hamstrings suck. Especially when you keep reaggravating it rushing back to get your reps in with Brady, "take on a big role early" and not waste this window year. The biggest arrow in Gage's quiver is he has a violent burst off the line. He then turn that into nasty out routes or stop on dime comebacks, we saw Metcalf milk this. We're pretending he didn't play on one leg all year. This brings up the final point- all these guys now get Canales and Idzik. Who know how to bleed a stone.

I expect Godwin to bounce back big time.

I expect Evans to be the same feast-or-famine guy he's been for 9 years now. 7-140-2 games followed by 2-18-0 games. It is what it is. His stats are HOF. His great games are HOF. But the lack of week-to-week consistency is as much a part of things as that other stuff.

Gage...we save $10 mil straight cash money cutting Gage. I'm not sure why we'd do anything else. If he wasn't a notable free agent signing, nobody would be expecting him to have any role on the 2023 team based on his 2022 play.

Behind those guys? Zip. Scott Miller got forgotten and is gone. Perriman did nothing and is likely gone. Julio is absolutely gone. Thompkins? Flashed as a returner, but who knows?

[Bootz]

Under no circumstances do we saved $10mil by cutting Russell Gage.

[MJW]

Under no circumstances do we saved $10mil by cutting Russell Gage.

Ahhh shit, was looking at next offseason.

Nope. About $2.5 Mil. Which means he'll probably be back, the crown free-agent jewel of the man who once signed Anthony Collins and Michael Johnson to huge contracts in the same offseason.

[Bootz]

We replaced 9 with 5(Jeff Kastl was QC last year, not sure why Greg listed him here). Hopefully fewer chefs in the kitchen yields better results.

[Doctor]

There is something to be said for inexperience. Shanahan thought Brady would be too difficult to work with. You can't fill a cup that's full.


If I'm wrong on the post june cut thing, then I think we may go the other direction and double down on Shaq. The Byron Jones stuff really bums me out and achilles is hella scary. But Suggs came back from his alright enough. Plus it's one of the easiest restructures to do.

[BucsNBills]

[Phantom]

Yeah good bye to Smith and White

Evans and Godwin aren’t going anywhere

[Cheb]

We can't bring the whole band back. We have to let some dudes go.

[Snake]

It’s a good thing.

Move forward.

[Bootz]

Being $55mil over the salary cap will do that for you.

[Buc2]

Being $55mil over the salary cap will do that for you.

It's going to be interesting to see which players are still here come March 15th.

[Bootz]

Obvious cuts:

Donovan Smith ($15.25mil saved Post June 1)
Ryan Succop($3.75mil saved)
Leonard Fournette ($4.9mil saved Post June 1)
Cameron Brate ($4mil saved Post June 1)

That's ~$28mil saved there, more than half of the $55mil deficit. 2 of those spots we already have in house replacements (Rachaad White & Cade Otton), one is a kicker, the other we'll need to go searching. But this seems to be obvious at this point. The remaining amount will likely be taken care of with other cuts and restructured/extended deals.

[BucsNBills]

[MJW]

Obvious cuts:

Donovan Smith ($15.25mil saved Post June 1)
Ryan Succop($3.75mil saved)
Leonard Fournette ($4.9mil saved Post June 1)
Cameron Brate ($4mil saved Post June 1)

That's ~$28mil saved there, more than half of the $55mil deficit. 2 of those spots we already have in house replacements (Rachaad White & Cade Otton), one is a kicker, the other we'll need to go searching. But this seems to be obvious at this point. The remaining amount will likely be taken care of with other cuts and restructured/extended deals.

That's optimistic, but $28 mil is, what, half of our cap debt alone? With 25 pending free agents from a 53 man roster?

I'm not arguing we'll be unable to get under the cap or field a team (something something Saints), but the people who genuinely believe this can be a better team than last year have better pot than I do. If we're lucky we'll be able to keep Dean and a couple of other mid-priced guys and add a mid-priced guy or two from the open market. We're going to have 20+ guys on this roster who are our rookies, or other team's draft cuts, or recent UDFAs. It's honestly just that simple whether or not you're in the "rebuild" or "reload" camp. We had almost zero depth last year, when we didn't enter the offseason in cap hell and didn't face a huge free agent defection. It's not going to get better this time around.

[Bootz]

Obvious cuts:

Donovan Smith ($15.25mil saved Post June 1)
Ryan Succop($3.75mil saved)
Leonard Fournette ($4.9mil saved Post June 1)
Cameron Brate ($4mil saved Post June 1)

That's ~$28mil saved there, more than half of the $55mil deficit. 2 of those spots we already have in house replacements (Rachaad White & Cade Otton), one is a kicker, the other we'll need to go searching. But this seems to be obvious at this point. The remaining amount will likely be taken care of with other cuts and restructured/extended deals.

That's optimistic, but $28 mil is, what, half of our cap debt alone? With 25 pending free agents from a 53 man roster?

I'm not arguing we'll be unable to get under the cap or field a team (something something Saints), but the people who genuinely believe this can be a better team than last year have better pot than I do. If we're lucky we'll be able to keep Dean and a couple of other mid-priced guys and add a mid-priced guy or two from the open market. We're going to have 20+ guys on this roster who are our rookies, or other team's draft cuts, or recent UDFAs. It's honestly just that simple whether or not you're in the "rebuild" or "reload" camp. We had almost zero depth last year, when we didn't enter the offseason in cap hell and didn't face a huge free agent defection. It's not going to get better this time around.

We'll need to hit in the draft more to build depth. As I stated, these 4 players represent $28mil saved. 2 of them were replaced in season by rookies. You can find a kicker with ease for pennies on the dollar. We'll likely either use a top pick on LT or will count on Wirfs and shuffle the Oline some to start.

Most of those 25 FAs are of the "zero depth" variety you refer to. Guys like Julio Jones, Kyle Rudolph, Gio Bernard, Breshad Perriman, Gernard Avery, Cam Gill, Aaron Stinnie, Blaine Gabbert. At least a UDFA or cut rookie would be much cheaper and might provide some upside.

[mdb1958]

Yep. PFA's and tell them no other place will give them a better chance to make the roster.

[BucsNBills]

What trade comp do we think CD3 would yield? Trading him saves $11.5 mil against the cap.

[Doctor]

It's not that hard to be a better team than last year. Last year was a train wreck.

1) Tom should not have come back. From a "best for the team" standpoint we all know it to be true, but we'd all do it again because it's Tom.
2) If we weren't DOA after losing Ali we were after losing Jensen and Stinnie.
3) Nothing on offense worked

Anyone that tries to sell you "Do you think we'll be better than we were with BRADY???" is being insincere, the NFL is more nuanced than that.

Extensions to Evans, White, Godwin, and Shaq will go a long way. Bring back Stinnie and SMB cheap so we can squeeze LVD back under the cap as well. If the defense can start grave digging again, I think this team can be very good.

Now, will this week 1 team be better than last years week 1 team? Probably not. But it's not hard for this years Dec team to be better than last years Dec team, and that's what we're really looking for. Do we get 8 wins along the journey? Depends on who we play and win. Any given sunday.

[mdb1958]

Obvious cuts:

Donovan Smith ($15.25mil saved Post June 1)
Ryan Succop($3.75mil saved)
Leonard Fournette ($4.9mil saved Post June 1)
Cameron Brate ($4mil saved Post June 1)

That's ~$28mil saved there, more than half of the $55mil deficit. 2 of those spots we already have in house replacements (Rachaad White & Cade Otton), one is a kicker, the other we'll need to go searching. But this seems to be obvious at this point. The remaining amount will likely be taken care of with other cuts and restructured/extended deals.

Those are all 2024 free agents - you try and trade them - even for a 7th rounder.

[Bootz]

Obvious cuts:

Donovan Smith ($15.25mil saved Post June 1)
Ryan Succop($3.75mil saved)
Leonard Fournette ($4.9mil saved Post June 1)
Cameron Brate ($4mil saved Post June 1)

That's ~$28mil saved there, more than half of the $55mil deficit. 2 of those spots we already have in house replacements (Rachaad White & Cade Otton), one is a kicker, the other we'll need to go searching. But this seems to be obvious at this point. The remaining amount will likely be taken care of with other cuts and restructured/extended deals.

Those are all 2024 free agents - you try and trade them - even for a 7th rounder.

Not Fournette. He's under contract in 2024. MAYBE a team would want him. The other 3 are as good as gone.

[_MB_]

Obvious cuts:

Donovan Smith ($15.25mil saved Post June 1)
Ryan Succop($3.75mil saved)
Leonard Fournette ($4.9mil saved Post June 1)
Cameron Brate ($4mil saved Post June 1)

That's ~$28mil saved there, more than half of the $55mil deficit. 2 of those spots we already have in house replacements (Rachaad White & Cade Otton), one is a kicker, the other we'll need to go searching. But this seems to be obvious at this point. The remaining amount will likely be taken care of with other cuts and restructured/extended deals.

Those are all 2024 free agents - you try and trade them - even for a 7th rounder.

Why would anyone trade for a player we're going to cut anyway?

[real bucs fan]

If Smith is cut, that definitely could mean an OT at 19.