Welcome Logan Hall

[mdb1958]

I think he's way more Gholston than Jordan but if he's any bit Jordan all the better for it.

I don't get the Gholston comps, except for the general physique. Gholston was a finesse player at MSU. The book on him was, "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane." He struggled to disengage blockers. He tried to win with speed. He was a finesse player in a power player's body. Despite being 6'6 280 and a former five star recruit, he fell to the 4th round in a bad draft because there were serious doubts he had enough sand in his shorts to do mix it up in the NFL.

Hall is a power player in a power player's body, and he has some finesse too. He's powerful enough to play the zero, nifty enough to play the edge, and is noted for his physicality and violence at the POA. Gholston plays a ton from two-point. There will be very little of Hall from two-point, unless Bowles is throwing curveballs.

Yes this also - was a 4-3 team going to target him.

[mdb1958]

"Would have".... fucking moron

Would of - take it or leave it kid.

[MJW]

I don't get the Gholston comps, except for the general physique. Gholston was a finesse player at MSU. The book on him was, "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane." He struggled to disengage blockers. He tried to win with speed. He was a finesse player in a power player's body. Despite being 6'6 280 and a former five star recruit, he fell to the 4th round in a bad draft because there were serious doubts he had enough sand in his shorts to do mix it up in the NFL.

Hall is a power player in a power player's body, and he has some finesse too. He's powerful enough to play the zero, nifty enough to play the edge, and is noted for his physicality and violence at the POA. Gholston plays a ton from two-point. There will be very little of Hall from two-point, unless Bowles is throwing curveballs.

Yes this also - was a 4-3 team going to target him.

I always pegged his best role as a 5T in a 3-4. He has the frame to add some weight. He's stout enough to set the edge, but he can also beat blocks and make the quarterback uncomfortable.

People are talking him and the "Gholston" job but IMHO the ultimate plan is for him to take over for Suh. It might not happen this year. He might need to get stronger first, and we might see Bowles use him more as a chess piece (kinda like JTS in that sense) as his game rounds out. But IMHO Suh is a much more straightforward comp than Gholston.

[mdb1958]

No comp for me, I just want him to be even more than what they pictured he could be. I saw him in the 70's as a pick and his stats didnt have me guessing otherwise. He's in the man's club now and I hope he eats up one on ones.

[mdb1958]

20 years of broken record Pete.

[King Bootz]

Enough of that shit between you two lunatics.

Gholston is a terribly lazy comp for Hall. Gholston doesn't have the motor Hall does. He never has. He's more physical now than he was in college and early in his career. But Hall has him by a mile in physicality.

The only real comparison is they both are 6'6 and both have an "L" in their 1st and last names.

[mdb1958]

Enough of that shit between you two lunatics.

Gholston is a terribly lazy comp for Hall. Gholston doesn't have the motor Hall does. He never has. He's more physical now than he was in college and early in his career. But Hall has him by a mile in physicality.

The only real comparison is they both are 6'6 and both have an "L" in their 1st and last names.

I'm giving a class on how to stand up to bullies!

[Cheb]

Yes this also - was a 4-3 team going to target him.

I always pegged his best role as a 5T in a 3-4. He has the frame to add some weight. He's stout enough to set the edge, but he can also beat blocks and make the quarterback uncomfortable.

People are talking him and the "Gholston" job but IMHO the ultimate plan is for him to take over for Suh. It might not happen this year. He might need to get stronger first, and we might see Bowles use him more as a chess piece (kinda like JTS in that sense) as his game rounds out. But IMHO Suh is a much more straightforward comp than Gholston.

After further review and thought, I'd agree with that. Here's the transcript from Bowles first speaking to Hall just after drafting him:

Todd Bowles: "Logan, what's up man?"
Logan Hall: "What's going on coach?"
TB: "We meet again."
LH: "Yes we do. How are you?"
TB: "I'm good, 3-tech. You ready to go?"

No one has ever confused Will Gholston for a 3-technique defensive tackle. Plenty of folks have employed Kong Suh to be that guy, though. Todd Bowles sure seems to think that Logan Hall can fill that spot, given that's how he referred to him just after drafting him in the first ten seconds of conversation.

And yes, Hall will get plenty of reps as a base end in base defense but that's a bit of a red herring. The majority of the time NFL defenses all run the same scheme, a 4-2 box with an extra defensive back in nickel personnel. Hall is going to make his hay as the 3-technique in that scheme, full stop. Bowles obviously believes in the man and he knows defense.

[mdb1958]

@Cheb

Man I hope this guy grows into a beast on the inside of the line.

[Grahamburn]

I'm still trying to figure out who would of took him in the 2nd.

Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Clearly.

[mdb1958]

I'm still trying to figure out who would of took him in the 2nd.

Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Clearly.

Do you also know the five picks we had slated for 27.

[Grahamburn]

Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Clearly.

Do you also know the five picks we had slated for 27.

I imagine they had some combination of the guards (Johnson/Green) and the DTs (Wyatt/Hall/Jones) slated for that pick. If Wyatt and or Jones end up being significantly better than the Hall/Otton combination they got for the trade back we'll consider it a failure of sorts. Clearly the like Hall's interior pass rush potential.

Jones fell like a stone and the Bucs passed on him twice so maybe they weren't all that interested. I wonder if Hall also would have slipped had they made a different choice? The next DT was taken at 47.

They probably had Wyatt/Hall rated pretty similarly at that point and were confident they'd get one of them or the 3 corners that went early 2nd. They didn't seem to be interested in addressing safety later on, so I wouldn't think Hill or Cine were on their radar. The guard the Pats took probably was, but not at that spot. The EDGE from Purdue is a try hard guy. I doubt he'll be a huge different maker in the NFL.

[mdb1958]

Not looking or hoping for any sort of failure

[mdb1958]

What will make all this a win for me is if we develop these o-linemen into a big surprise.

[mdb1958]

Bruce (I know, I know) said you don't really look to pair up two Veas. You want someone that is different. I think it's a fair BPA on their board, he's 100% cut from the cloth the FO likes. Instant starter. Good pick.

I was always trying to calculate the draft where you got both. I also do not think Jones and Vea are the same beast.

[Grahamburn]

Bruce (I know, I know) said you don't really look to pair up two Veas. You want someone that is different. I think it's a fair BPA on their board, he's 100% cut from the cloth the FO likes. Instant starter. Good pick.

I was always trying to calculate the draft where you got both. I also do not think Jones and Vea are the same beast.

There’s something about Jones a lot of teams didn’t like.

[mdb1958]

I was always trying to calculate the draft where you got both. I also do not think Jones and Vea are the same beast.

There’s something about Jones a lot of teams didn’t like.

Most teams already had both and more. If Jones keeps making weight disappear while adding muscle he will re-define his body and get even quicker.

Cameron Thomas already has all the pass rushing moves that Hall has to acquire.

Neither have to even start this year because of going to a well stocked roster.

[MJW]

I was always trying to calculate the draft where you got both. I also do not think Jones and Vea are the same beast.

There’s something about Jones a lot of teams didn’t like.

Four Things:

One, he's scheme specific. Half the teams in the league wouldn't have a ton of use for him.

Two, there's perception that even in that scheme, he might be limited to two downs (I don't agree with this.)

Three, he showed up to college at 400 pounds. He's lost a lot of bad weight but still carries some. You're always worried a dude like that is going to balloon back up.

Four, there's a bias against smaller-program defensive tackles. I think because they're a tough evaluation. There's been 1 defensive tackle from a Non-Power 5 team drafted in the first two rounds since 2018 - PJ Hall was taken was a late 2nd by the Raiders that year. He's the last one.

[mdb1958]

There’s something about Jones a lot of teams didn’t like.

Four Things:

One, he's scheme specific. Half the teams in the league wouldn't have a ton of use for him.

Two, there's perception that even in that scheme, he might be limited to two downs (I don't agree with this.)

Three, he showed up to college at 400 pounds. He's lost a lot of bad weight but still carries some. You're always worried a dude like that is going to balloon back up.

Four, there's a bias against smaller-program defensive tackles. I think because they're a tough evaluation. There's been 1 defensive tackle from a Non-Power 5 team drafted in the first two rounds since 2018 - PJ Hall was taken was a late 2nd by the Raiders that year. He's the last one.

I stand by the assertion that time and double teams will burn out Vea - he needs to hunt once in a while too.
I've seen him get single teamed with uninterrupted pass completions.

Yes that means a neutralized interior pass rush.

[Doctor]

I think he's way more Gholston than Jordan but if he's any bit Jordan all the better for it.

I don't get the Gholston comps, except for the general physique. Gholston was a finesse player at MSU. The book on him was, "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane." He struggled to disengage blockers. He tried to win with speed. He was a finesse player in a power player's body. Despite being 6'6 280 and a former five star recruit, he fell to the 4th round in a bad draft because there were serious doubts he had enough sand in his shorts to do mix it up in the NFL.

Hall is a power player in a power player's body, and he has some finesse too. He's powerful enough to play the zero, nifty enough to play the edge, and is noted for his physicality and violence at the POA. Gholston plays a ton from two-point. There will be very little of Hall from two-point, unless Bowles is throwing curveballs.

I think they are both body comps and career comps more than playstyle or role comps.

[Doctor]

Your Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Clearly.

Do you also know the five picks we had slated for 27.

He said we had 5 at 27 and only one was left when we picked Hall so I'm guessing the other four were Devin Lloyd, Devonte Wyatt, Karlaftis and Cine.

[mdb1958]

I did not hear "and only one was left".

[Primeminister]

Do you also know the five picks we had slated for 27.

He said we had 5 at 27 and only one was left when we picked Hall so I'm guessing the other four were Devin Lloyd, Devonte Wyatt, Karlaftis and Cine.

It’s going to be fun to watch the five that Licht grouped together. Hopefully we got the best of the five.

[mdb1958]

He said we had 5 at 27 and only one was left when we picked Hall so I'm guessing the other four were Devin Lloyd, Devonte Wyatt, Karlaftis and Cine.

It’s going to be fun to watch the five that Licht grouped together. Hopefully we got the best of the five.

Nother lie

[Kona]

Do you also know the five picks we had slated for 27.

He said we had 5 at 27 and only one was left when we picked Hall so I'm guessing the other four were Devin Lloyd, Devonte Wyatt, Karlaftis and Cine.

I’d think maybe Dax Hill over Karlaftis, but could be wrong.

[Primeminister]

It’s going to be fun to watch the five that Licht grouped together. Hopefully we got the best of the five.

Nother lie

Apple pie

[kaimaru]

I did not hear "and only one was left".

It was after the draft. Spytek stated they had 5 options one the board at 27 that were all graded equal. He said 4 were drafted before 33. I am guessing those were Wyatt, Strange, Karlaftis, and Cine. He said at one point they were sweating it, so a run of 3 of the 5 probably caused that.

[mdb1958]

I did not hear "and only one was left".

It was after the draft. Spytek stated they had 5 options one the board at 27 that were all graded equal. He said 4 were drafted before 33. I am guessing those were Wyatt, Strange, Karlaftis, and Cine. He said at one point they were sweating it, so a run of 3 of the 5 probably caused that.

I looked up a link where Spytek was addressing the reporters. A reporter said "Bucs said that yesterday".
Spytek did not say what you said in your post.
Wyatt is the only name I buy. Maybe Karlaftis just because of shock of him still being there - nah.

6:12 starts it. Who was the reporter?

[MJW]

I did not hear "and only one was left".

It was after the draft. Spytek stated they had 5 options one the board at 27 that were all graded equal. He said 4 were drafted before 33. I am guessing those were Wyatt, Strange, Karlaftis, and Cine. He said at one point they were sweating it, so a run of 3 of the 5 probably caused that.

This is basically the same thing he said about JTS, though - he was the last guy on our board we wanted in that slot, etc.

I think he's just being nice. I don't read anything into any of it.

[MJW]

Also, the odds of the board falling exactly like he's indicating seems unlikely. Bottom of the first round and there's run like that with your same prospect group? I can see it early in the round. But not in that range. Again, JMHO.

[mdb1958]

It was interesting hearing Licht say they had a lot of calls for teams wanting pick 33 but only a couple of offers.
I guess that means a couple that they played out the scenarios with.
He ended up saying our 2nd pick was BPA, our 3rd pick was BPA, and then caught himself and said our 1st pick was BPA also.

I'm thinking when the Patriots picked Cole Strange after our trade down Licht started squirming.

Here are five rankings for Goedeke, Lichts best 2nd pick overall.

74th G Tony Pauline
135th OT PFN
291st OT Cam Mellor
117th OT Oli Hodgkinson
71st OT Ian Cummings

Water under the dam, I hope he becomes a run blocking/pass blocking animal. We need to hit big.

[mdb1958]

Also, the odds of the board falling exactly like he's indicating seems unlikely. Bottom of the first round and there's run like that with your same prospect group? I can see it early in the round. But not in that range. Again, JMHO.

Licht said they were playing out a lot of scenarios and then he said "one was left".

What he did not say was only one was left.

[nybf]

Water under the dam

Uh......

[Kress]

Water under the dam

Uh......

It's an mdb dam. Built using mdb blueprints.

[mdb1958]

I think we could of done better in regards to dropping 6,7,and 8 into coverage.
3 man rush won't do squat
4 man rush? I wanna see it
5 man rush? They better get there quick.