Tom Brady: Undecided

[nybf]

Getting to the divisional round only to be stopped by the most brain dead defensive play call of the year is evidence? Interesting.

Note I said "This year" and not "this play" or "this game". I think the defense has been a weakness most of the season. Brady was able to overcome it to the point the team still had a chance to win the Super Bowl but it could have been improved and was not. I think this season showed that you have to focus on getting better not just staying the same. Natural wear and tear really affected the Buccaneers defense at key positions and I think it was noticeable all year. If you don't that is fine but twisting my words doesn't accomplish a damn thing.

Twisting your words? OK, how about this?

"Natural wear and tear really affected the Buccaneers defense at key positions and I think it was noticeable all year."

Those are your words, right?

The starting defense, as drawn up before the season began, all started yesterday, correct?

Anything that happened at any other point during the season means nothing when talking about what happened yesterday. Even if you changed things that happened during the regular season, what would have been different about yesterday? Maybe the opponent if we got the 1 instead of the 2. But we still would have been hosting a playoff game.

"The defense needs to be seriously improved"

Those are your words, too, yes? What serious improvement would have made that play call the right call?

[Buc2]

I hope he comes back next season. With Brady, this can still be a damn good team despite all the woe-is-me fans crying about possible cap casualties this offseason. We'll see, but I think he'll be back. Especially if he gets a good vibe about who will be back with him.

[13F11B]

Note I said "This year" and not "this play" or "this game". I think the defense has been a weakness most of the season. Brady was able to overcome it to the point the team still had a chance to win the Super Bowl but it could have been improved and was not. I think this season showed that you have to focus on getting better not just staying the same. Natural wear and tear really affected the Buccaneers defense at key positions and I think it was noticeable all year. If you don't that is fine but twisting my words doesn't accomplish a damn thing.

Twisting your words? OK, how about this?

"Natural wear and tear really affected the Buccaneers defense at key positions and I think it was noticeable all year."

Those are your words, right?

The starting defense, as drawn up before the season began, all started yesterday, correct?

Anything that happened at any other point during the season means nothing when talking about what happened yesterday. Even if you changed things that happened during the regular season, what would have been different about yesterday? Maybe the opponent if we got the 1 instead of the 2. But we still would have been hosting a playoff game.

"The defense needs to be seriously improved"

Those are your words, too, yes? What serious improvement would have made that play call the right call?

I struggle when talking to people that twist words. Then when called on it want to focus on one play. Sure, I will try to play your game but if you go Bootz on me I will not continue down that road.

1. Natural Wear and Tear. It is my opinion that both Suh and JPP were not the players they were last year. The difference in their abilities caused issues this season with putting pressure on the QB. Unfortunately, most of this is from watching the games, not from an analysis of stats. I would say JPP was more an issue than Suh but both had a significant decline in play.

2. The defense needed improvement in the secondary. I think that was obvious last season too but the DL was able to help make up for the poor secondary play.

3. My argument is that with a better defense the team might not have gotten to that play call. The play call was horrendous.
a. In addition with a better pass rush if it did come down to that play perhaps the play ends in a sack
b. In addition with a better secondary perhaps that play ends in a defended pass

Again, for the most part I was talking about the season much more than the single game or the single play.

[13F11B]

I hope he comes back next season. With Brady, this can still be a damn good team despite all the woe-is-me fans crying about possible cap casualties this offseason. We'll see, but I think he'll be back. Especially if he gets a good vibe about who will be back with him.

If Brady comes back the team will be in contention. This offseason has to be about improving the team around him and not just maintaining. The secondary is a weakness with the current defensive line. I would prefer both units be improved.

[nybf]

If you're just going to cry nonstop through your post about getting your words twisted, FRO. Go chase boots around the forum.

[13F11B]

If you're just going to cry nonstop through your post about getting your words twisted, FRO. Go chase boots around the forum.

I see you really deal well when people try to engage you. No comments on what I added to the discussion. No need to chase Bootz you are acting like him right now.

[nybf]

If you're just going to cry nonstop through your post about getting your words twisted, FRO. Go chase boots around the forum.

I see you really deal well when people try to engage you. No comments on what I added to the discussion. No need to chase Bootz you are acting like him right now.

I tried to engage. You opened and closed your post complaining about word twisting. I can't be bothered trying to have a discussion with you if you're going to spend all your time crying about perceived word twisting. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[13F11B]

I see you really deal well when people try to engage you. No comments on what I added to the discussion. No need to chase Bootz you are acting like him right now.

I tried to engage. You opened and closed your post complaining about word twisting. I can't be bothered trying to have a discussion with you if you're going to spend all your time crying about perceived word twisting. Enjoy the rest of your day.

So you ignored this:

1. Natural Wear and Tear. It is my opinion that both Suh and JPP were not the players they were last year. The difference in their abilities caused issues this season with putting pressure on the QB. Unfortunately, most of this is from watching the games, not from an analysis of stats. I would say JPP was more an issue than Suh but both had a significant decline in play.

2. The defense needed improvement in the secondary. I think that was obvious last season too but the DL was able to help make up for the poor secondary play.

3. My argument is that with a better defense the team might not have gotten to that play call. The play call was horrendous.
a. In addition with a better pass rush if it did come down to that play perhaps the play ends in a sack
b. In addition with a better secondary perhaps that play ends in a defended pass

Again, for the most part I was talking about the season much more than the single game or the single play.

Good talking to you Bootz 2.0

[Monero]

Why would Brady come back if Arians is returning and a large talent departure is on the horizon? His experience with the Bucs will only get worse from here.

[nybf]

Why would Brady come back if Arians is returning and a large talent departure is on the horizon? His experience with the Bucs will only get worse from here.

Welcome to iabl! How did you find us?

[0-26 Survivor]

Yesterdays loss was a difficult pill to swallow. I’m thinking he wants to give it one more shot.

[Monero]

Personally I hope Brady retires. I don't want the Bucs to be the team where Tom Brady finally declines to non-viability. He led the lead in most of the important passing statistics. Should be MVP. Fresh off an improbable Super Bowl win vs Mahomes. Led an incredible comeback and tied the game when everything looked grim. Brady has the chance to walk away effectively on top of his game, giving the middle finger to Father Time. Given the talent loss we're likely to experience, major fluctuation in coaching, plus Brady being a year older, there's very little chance of winning the SB next year which means Brady has nothing to gain by playing another season. For the most part, only bad things can happen with Brady returning. I don't want the Bucs logo attached to a bunch of bad Brady tape in 2022.

We had our run. We got a ring. With some better draft/FA planning and maybe a tad more injury luck, we had a real shot at repeating. Franchise record for wins. Let's end this gracefully and not have this turn ugly with trying to force a Brady 3rd season that has a great chance at ending in disaster. Rip the bandaid off and start building for the future.

[Doctor]

Could not disagree more. I want the team to ride Brady until the wheels fall off.

Also, the dude just outpassed the whole league. There's nothing on tape to suggest he even sees the cliff yet.

[Nano]

[13F11B]

I read this today too. This is very consistent with several comments he made this year. I really think there is a chance he will decide to retire. Last season there was no fear of that. He wanted to go for a repeat. This coming season would not be a repeat. He also talked about not wanting a farewell tour type of season. He felt that would be a distraction.

[MJW]

I can't believe that Tom Brady wants to live his last 40-50 years with THAT as his last experience as an NFL player.

But if he decides to move on, all I can do is thank him for the best 2 years of Buccaneers fandom of my life.

[real bucs fan]

I think I might shed tears. Seriously lol

[Doctor]

While I'm all for as many Brady years as we can get I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be excited for the Trask era and the cap savings if having a rookie deal at QB would bring Godwin back for sure too.

[Nano]

You get excited about everybody Doctor. We could draft a 7th round QB with no arms and you'd still find a way to get excited about him.

[Nobody]

Brady has been acting a bit out-of-sorts for the last many weeks. That makes me wonder how much of this is life partner driven; conversations, subtle prodding, perhaps more.

On the football side of things, I can think of a lot of reasons for him to do the calculus of “this teams is going to be worse than the Super Bowl team next year…not status quo or better” and decide to exit stage left:

* Godwin’s net recovery and his timeline for recovery. And how does that particular hit affect his neurological system when he’s RAC in the middle of the field. The brain can just say “eff right off” and change the way you’d like to play. And unclear if he’ll even be here.

* Wirfs is coming off a brutal ankle injury with a rupture and apparently an avulsion fracture. You just don’t know if a 300 lb guy’s movement skills will maintain with an injury like that. TBD.

* The Suh of 2020 (not 2021) has to be replaced. That is an issue for both starter and depth play. We don’t have that replacement rostered and it won’t be easy doing so.

* The JPP of 2020 (not 2021) has to be replaced. That is an issue for both starter and depth play. We hope that replacement is rostered in the combination of JTS and Nelson. Still TBD.

* Does Gronk still want to play? His play down the stretch was wildly uneven and he suffered a brutal injury midway that costa lot of time.

* Jensen and Cappa status.

* CD3 and Whitehead status. CD3 leaves and the oft-injured, extremely unreliable (as a cover player primarily) SMB suddenly takes those snaps? Massive massive downgrade.

* Gholston and LVD both has terrific seasons but does Gholston chase a small pay raise? His replacement isn’t remotely rostered. Even if he stays on, he’s on the cusp of that cliff. Same with LVD and we’re finally seeing the wear of that wear-intensive/injury-prone position take its toll on him in terms of games/snaps.

* White had a very bad year and who knows what happens next year. Who is he as a player at this point? As a leader, he certainly isn’t the cerebral, steadying constant of LVD. Is he the demanding accountability (with the credibility to do so) type like JPP? Don’t see it. Who is he?

* The RB position is completely unrostered at this point. A back that he believes in in Pass Pro and in the Receiving Game is paramount. That player isn’t rostered.

* Coaching changes? He likely doesn’t want to endure that.


++++++++


That is my case for retirement as of this day. A lot of bogeyman to chase off in order for him to stay on for one last trophy hunt.

[MJW]

Brady has been acting a bit out-of-sorts for the last many weeks. That makes me wonder how much of this is life partner driven; conversations, subtle prodding, perhaps more.

On the football side of things, I can think of a lot of reasons for him to do the calculus of “this teams is going to be worse than the Super Bowl team next year…not status quo or better” and decide to exit stage left:

* Godwin’s net recovery and his timeline for recovery. And how does that particular hit affect his neurological system when he’s RAC in the middle of the field. The brain can just say “eff right off” and change the way you’d like to play. And unclear if he’ll even be here.

* Wirfs is coming off a brutal ankle injury with a rupture and apparently an avulsion fracture. You just don’t know if a 300 lb guy’s movement skills will maintain with an injury like that. TBD.

* The Suh of 2020 (not 2021) has to be replaced. That is an issue for both starter and depth play. We don’t have that replacement rostered and it won’t be easy doing so.

* The JPP of 2020 (not 2021) has to be replaced. That is an issue for both starter and depth play. We hope that replacement is rostered in the combination of JTS and Nelson. Still TBD.

* Does Gronk still want to play? His play down the stretch was wildly uneven and he suffered a brutal injury midway that costa lot of time.

* Jensen and Cappa status.

* CD3 and Whitehead status. CD3 leaves and the oft-injured, extremely unreliable (as a cover player primarily) SMB suddenly takes those snaps? Massive massive downgrade.

* Gholston and LVD both has terrific seasons but does Gholston chase a small pay raise? His replacement isn’t remotely rostered. Even if he stays on, he’s on the cusp of that cliff. Same with LVD and we’re finally seeing the wear of that wear-intensive/injury-prone position take its toll on him in terms of games/snaps.

* White had a very bad year and who knows what happens next year. Who is he as a player at this point? As a leader, he certainly isn’t the cerebral, steadying constant of LVD. Is he the demanding accountability (with the credibility to do so) type like JPP? Don’t see it. Who is he?

* The RB position is completely unrostered at this point. A back that he believes in in Pass Pro and in the Receiving Game is paramount. That player isn’t rostered.

* Coaching changes? He likely doesn’t want to endure that.


++++++++


That is my case for retirement as of this day. A lot of bogeyman to chase off in order for him to stay on for one last trophy hunt.

You're not wrong about any of this, but it's all the forest and the trees.

Brady will sit down with BA, Licht, whoever else, at OBP. They'll pitch him on the idea we can make another run. He'll believe it, or he won't. And if he does, he'll weigh that against those other considerations we don't know anything about (and aren't any of our business.)

It'll be that simple, I think. A scotch and a conversation. I think he trusts BA. And I think if BA looks him in the eyes and tells him he thinks we can compete, Tom will believe him.

Now, CAN we? Yes, IMHO. But the margin for error is nothing. We have to hit on our free agency decisions. We have to find guys in the draft who, if nothing else, shore up depth. Because there's going to be attrition. And regardless, like you say, some guys have to go all the same.

[Grahamburn]

If Brady retires I don’t see our free agents wanting to re-sign here to play with basically a rookie QB.

If Brady doesn’t retire I don’t see how we can keep everyone again, and even then, is that a championship roster? No, not anymore. So, from Tom’s perspective.. Why go through this for another year?

Bad vibes.

I think he’s done.

Tough spot for the organization. But, we got our Lombardi. Forever.

[McFan]

I think he plays next year and win or lose, that's it. He's been saying he wants to play until he's 45 to make a point, and that's what he'll do.

Truth is, he did look "older" this year than year's past. He might call it a career but I say he goes ONE MORE.

[13F11B]

I can't believe that Tom Brady wants to live his last 40-50 years with THAT as his last experience as an NFL player.

But if he decides to move on, all I can do is thank him for the best 2 years of Buccaneers fandom of my life.

I agree with you. That is what will bring him back. However, I think he is smart enough to consider that coming back might end in a worse experience which is why I think it will depend on what he will watch what the team is doing and have discussions with the coaching staff about their plans.

[13F11B]

You get excited about everybody Doctor. We could draft a 7th round QB with no arms and you'd still find a way to get excited about him.

He would be an excellent runner with a big mouth.

[acmillis]

I can't believe that Tom Brady wants to live his last 40-50 years with THAT as his last experience as an NFL player.

But if he decides to move on, all I can do is thank him for the best 2 years of Buccaneers fandom of my life.

I agree with you. That is what will bring him back. However, I think he is smart enough to consider that coming back might end in a worse experience which is why I think it will depend on what he will watch what the team is doing and have discussions with the coaching staff about their plans.

This is where I'm at. I think (hope) he comes back, but I think if he looks at our personnel changes, then looks at the schedule (good lord, it's gon' be tough), it could give him pause.

Outside of our division games, we host:
Rams
Seahawks
Packers
Ravens
Bengals
Chiefs

62-40 record in 2021, winning percentage of .61
------------------------------------------------------------------
Outside of our division games, we're on the road for:
Cardinals
49ers
Cowboys
Browns
Steelers
50-34 record in 2021, winning percentage of .60

[13F11B]

@acmillis Well, the Rams, Seahawks, Packers, Cowboys, and Steelers all are facing salary cap issues and maybe completely different teams. If this was solely a football decision I think Brady would be back. I do not think this is just a football decision for him. I think the family decision is what will make the difference.

[Phantom]

Bucco Bruce and Creamsicles Jersey is coming back for next season, Tom Brady will look good on it

Edit: https://bucswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/3 ... instagram/

[Pirate Life]

Gronk looks like he wants to play next season from his twitter account.



There’s also this comment that’s getting overlooked from Brady:

[Snake]

I’ll never doubt Tom’s love for his family. But I believe nothing quite reaches his love for the game. That’s not an insult to anyone. Very few people experience that passion in their life.

The “football pulls me away from my family, so I’ll have to step away at some point” narrative has been perpetuated for years. Pure speculation, but I don’t think Tom makes that decision on his own. Giselle probably says “no more, you’re done. It’s over.” Would she do that? Only she knows.

I agree with Nobody’s perception that Tom seemed a little off the last few weeks. Just kind of dejected. Maybe that conversation I just mentioned has already been had. Who knows. but something was off.

[Buc2]

As many of you know, I was a Patriot fan before the Bucs franchise ever existed. Proximity made me a Bucs fan from the day their franchise was announced and I've bled Orange & White & Pewter & Red ever since. Regardless, I continued to follow the Patriots and, by extension, Tom Brady throughout his time there and I became a big TB fan as a result. I used to laugh at all of you on here that hated on him because he was, frankly, the best at his job and won so much.

Anyway, as it relates to his possible retirement after this season, I'm good either way. If he wants to retire, I can fully understand why and will respect that decision. Same if he chooses to play one more season. I will forever be grateful to this organization for going out there and making Brady a Buc happen. Without him, there is just no way last year's SB run happens. Hell, without him, this year's playoff run definitely doesn't happen either. I think we all know that.

So, either way, I got to see one of my favorite players win a Super Bowl with my favorite team and I'll always cherish that experience.

[13F11B]

I agree with Nobody’s perception that Tom seemed a little off the last few weeks. Just kind of dejected. Maybe that conversation I just mentioned has already been had. Who knows. but something was off.

I was hoping that the reason for this was the fact that he knew the extent of some of the injuries despite the public reports not being clear and specific. I also think he knew how impactful losing Godwin was to the team.

[uscbucsfan]

While we don't know if he is coming back or not, we do know it's a more difficult decision that it ever has been. He's always responded to that question with "I'll play until I'm 50" or "Of course I'll be back"...whatever. This year, really all year, he's been mulling next year as he's spoke about how difficult this season was to get through, taking vet rest days, talking about being away from his family, and not committing to the future.

If he does come back, it'll likely be one last run unless next season randomly is better/more fun than this last season was for him.

[Pirate Life]

AB’s meltdown had to feel like a betrayal after all Brady did for him. Injuries, fake vaccine card drama and that had to weigh on everyone. Hence the turmoil David alluded to in his comments. But we’ve had multiple players come out about how tight the locker room is as well. That seems to point more to Brady than anyone else.

I am going back and forth on Brady’s return next season, but I can’t shake the feeling that a big part of his decision will be based on the locker room and the guys in it.

[Crocaneers]

AB’s meltdown had to feel like a betrayal after all Brady did for him. Injuries, fake vaccine card drama and that had to weigh on everyone. Hence the turmoil David alluded to in his comments. But we’ve had multiple players come out about how tight the locker room is as well. That seems to point more to Brady than anyone else.

I am going back and forth on Brady’s return next season, but I can’t shake the feeling that a big part of his decision will be based on the locker room and the guys in it.

I agree .. TB12 will be in Jason's office often to see what is getting built.. thinking all 22 come back again is really a long shot, so it comes down to

Who is going to protect him
Who will he throw to
Who will run the ball
Who will let him rest and keep pounding (Grave Diggers could be a huge hit if it's not done right)