Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Deja Entendu]

Last year was practically the antithesis of our SB run: a perfect storm of shit.

So I don’t expect Baker to do better than Brady with what was here had last year. All things considered, I expect a much better situation on offense, which is why I wanted Brady back for one more year. A mulligan. Didn’t happen, but I still expect improvement (albeit less improvement than if Brady was back).

[MJW]

Last year was practically the antithesis of our SB run: a perfect storm of shit.

So I don’t expect Baker to do better than Brady with what was here had last year. All things considered, I expect a much better situation on offense, which is why I wanted Brady back for one more year. A mulligan. Didn’t happen, but I still expect improvement (albeit less improvement than if Brady was back).

Did you really feel like shit was happening DESPITE our leadership? Because it's 4 times in 5 years of Todd Bowles coaching that he's run into "a perfect storm of shit." It's reasonable to believe he's simply not equipped to steer around it or right the shit when it finds him.

[_MB_]

Last year was practically the antithesis of our SB run: a perfect storm of shit.

So I don’t expect Baker to do better than Brady with what was here had last year. All things considered, I expect a much better situation on offense, which is why I wanted Brady back for one more year. A mulligan. Didn’t happen, but I still expect improvement (albeit less improvement than if Brady was back).

Did you really feel like shit was happening DESPITE our leadership? Because it's 4 times in 5 years of Todd Bowles coaching that he's run into "a perfect storm of shit." It's reasonable to believe he's simply not equipped to steer around it or right the shit when it finds him.

Did he win a division title those other times?

[Doctor]

Last year was practically the antithesis of our SB run: a perfect storm of shit.

So I don’t expect Baker to do better than Brady with what was here had last year. All things considered, I expect a much better situation on offense, which is why I wanted Brady back for one more year. A mulligan. Didn’t happen, but I still expect improvement (albeit less improvement than if Brady was back).

You understand it's a completely different offense right? Imagine if the Seahawks had (finally) made Canales their OC and we traded WRs. Then they signed Baker. Would you be comparing the new Seahawks offense to the 2020 Bucs? No. That'd be absurd, it's a completely different situation. This is much closer to that than this narrative of "well we're going from Tom to Baker".

[MJW]

Did you really feel like shit was happening DESPITE our leadership? Because it's 4 times in 5 years of Todd Bowles coaching that he's run into "a perfect storm of shit." It's reasonable to believe he's simply not equipped to steer around it or right the shit when it finds him.

Did he win a division title those other times?

He couldn't, other teams in his division finished .500 those years.

[MJW]

Last year was practically the antithesis of our SB run: a perfect storm of shit.

So I don’t expect Baker to do better than Brady with what was here had last year. All things considered, I expect a much better situation on offense, which is why I wanted Brady back for one more year. A mulligan. Didn’t happen, but I still expect improvement (albeit less improvement than if Brady was back).

You understand it's a completely different offense right? Imagine if the Seahawks had (finally) made Canales their OC and we traded WRs. Then they signed Baker. Would you be comparing the new Seahawks offense to the 2020 Bucs? No. That'd be absurd, it's a completely different situation. This is much closer to that than this narrative of "well we're going from Tom to Baker".

What we know: Tom Brady is better than Baker Mayfield.
What we don't know: If Dave Canales is better than anyone.

[13F11B]

We all just have to see how it all plays out.

[Doctor]

Exactly. I've repeatedly mentioned Canales, the scheme, his play calling... all questions. True that.

But they really are questions.
I don't get why or how some people can be so dead set it's a flop. "Because Pete never knighted him" is beyond a lame arguement and huge leap.

[13F11B]

I am more worried about Bowles than Canales. Bowles has a history of failure.

[Doctor]

He doesn't seem to meddle. For better or worse he, like a lot of good HC, gives his general guidance but leaves that side of the ball more to his coordinator.

We've seen HoF HCs held back by their help on the other side. From Dungy back in our day to BB today.

Bowles started off pretty darn good and almost took the damn Jets to the playoffs at 10-6. Then Chan Gailey retired on him and he hasn't been able to get OC right since.

Now sure, you could say maybe that should be evidence that Bowles can't pick em, but this time he had Jason, Bruce, and Tom on his side in an extensive search.

The Canales Baker/Trask experiment is not some kooky long shot. It can totally work.

[MJW]

Exactly. I've repeatedly mentioned Canales, the scheme, his play calling... all questions. True that.

But they really are questions.
I don't get why or how some people can be so dead set it's a flop. "Because Pete never knighted him" is beyond a lame arguement and huge leap.

Nobody is set that it's a flop. But your counter-argument to, "Basically everything about this team is worse than last year's debacle" seems to amount to, "Dave Canales is here now though." Blame Leftwich for everything is the only way the deluded around here can stay deluded. So yeah, that means having to point out that Dave Canales probably isn't going to turn Bowles into a competent head coach or Baker Mayfield into a real quarterback, etc.

Stop pretending firing Leftwich is going to fix everything and I for one will stop pointing out that Dave Canales is an anonymous NPC coach whose own mentor wouldn't promote him.

[Doctor]

I think I'm as far from a blame Leftwich guy as there is on this board.

There were multiple points of failure last year that extended beyond, but still included, Leftwhich. But that offense and it's strengths AND weaknesses are gone.

This offense will have it's own issues. And we will discover them and try to patch them up as we go.

[Bucsfan83]

You understand it's a completely different offense right? Imagine if the Seahawks had (finally) made Canales their OC and we traded WRs. Then they signed Baker. Would you be comparing the new Seahawks offense to the 2020 Bucs? No. That'd be absurd, it's a completely different situation. This is much closer to that than this narrative of "well we're going from Tom to Baker".

What we know: Tom Brady is better than Baker Mayfield.
What we don't know: If Dave Canales is better than anyone.

I don't know... Did you see leftwich last year?

[Buc2]

What we know: Tom Brady is better than Baker Mayfield.
What we don't know: If Dave Canales is better than anyone.

I don't know... Did you see leftwich last year?

You must have one helluva memory to keep up with a random player's off-field behavior since they entered the league.

[Doctor]

Sports Illustrated's Albert Breer believes the Bucs coaching staff is "excited to see what they can do with Baker Mayfield and Kyle Trask."

Breer said he's not buying rumors about Tampa trading up in the 2023 NFL Draft to acquire a quarterback of the future. It's conceivable that Bucs coaches think they can work with Mayfield after the improvements he showed in the final month of the 2022 season with the Rams, along with his system-based success in 2020, when he led the Browns to the postseason. Trask, meanwhile, has almost no regular season experience and lacks mobility and arm strength (much like Mayfield). It seems the Bucs will wait until 2024 to take a franchise QB.

[Snake]

If I’m Bowles, I need reassurances that they’re not gonna can my ass after giving me Kyle Trask, Baker Mayfield, and 1/4 missing cap space for my “win or die trying” season.

[Doctor]

I doubt Bowles needs that or is even too worried baring something crazy fracturing OBP. This notion that year 2 is some "do or die season" and all that is just pissy fan talk that has no actual basis in reality. OBP is going to do what its going to do just like every FO have.

Jason isn't blind. He sees what's going on. Even if we miss the playoffs, which I doubt, the idea that its some unforgivable sin and clear telltale sign is purely fan nonsense from outside OBP. As long as OBP feels they are on the same page and moving in the right direction they'll keep it going.

Seriously, we're on cusp of the best playoff streak in team history and people are talking do or die. And wtf is "do" anyway? Playoffs? Division 3peat? SB?

The chicken littles are gonna hate this but the reality is Bowles is very much likely our HC next year and probably beyond.

[uscbucsfan1]

I doubt Bowles needs that or is even too worried baring something crazy fracturing OBP. This notion that year 2 is some "do or die season" and all that is just pissy fan talk that has no actual basis in reality. OBP is going to do what its going to do just like every FO have.

Jason isn't blind. He sees what's going on. Even if we miss the playoffs, which I doubt, the idea that its some unforgivable sin and clear telltale sign is purely fan nonsense from outside OBP. As long as OBP feels they are on the same page and moving in the right direction they'll keep it going.

Seriously, we're on cusp of the best playoff streak in team history and people are talking do or die. And wtf is "do" anyway? Playoffs? Division 3peat? SB?

The chicken littles are gonna hate this but the reality is Bowles is very much likely our HC next year and probably beyond.

You said the same thing about Leftwich last year and he's gone.

It's quite obvious that if the team isn't good next year Bowles is gone...potentially Licht as well.

That's not chicken little, it's the NFL.

I know you love to play cheerleader and no one expects you to ever be a pessimist (even a realist) about anything Buc related. We know whoever is picked you will think is the best pick ever (see your Aguayo take), but there is a rational middle ground.

Devin White is a long shot for 100 million dollar contract. In fact he's a bottom tier LB right now with insane athletic upside.

Neither Licht nor Bowles (or anyone) is safe after next year.

Baker and Trask have heavy odds against them to be average starters in the league.

These are all reality...doesn't mean it's impossible for White, Baker/Trask, Bowles, and Licht to succeed. We are...or should all be hoping for it.

[Doctor]

And what happened? A huge freaking fracture between Bowles and Leftwich, neither felt respected, a total lack of trust. If that happens between Todd and Jason, yeah, sure thing, he can get canned. But I just don't see that happening. Do you think Jason doesn't know what Todd is working with? He gave it to him, he knows!

One of the best things to come from this regime has been an appreciation for candor. It's the foundation of trust and respect. Jason also has a good ear in the locker room, it's a big part of why he hired Koetter. Koetter had huge support and admiration from the players who were texting JL. Players seem to be bought into what Bowles is selling. That's a big deal.

Could a fracture happen? Sure. Heck, the Glazers could come in and override Licht (or fire him too) if they decide to. Though they seem more than happy with Licht running things while they focus on their team across the pond. But hey, it could happen.

[Babeinbucland]

If I’m Bowles, I need reassurances that they’re not gonna can my ass after giving me Kyle Trask, Baker Mayfield, and 1/4 missing cap space for my “win or die trying” season.

100% fair statement.

[Doctor]

I don't know how much y'all go on other teams message boards but I do. Let me tell you a big difference between the winning franchises and the losing ones. The winning ones believe they can win. Things change, QBs change, the odds and chances change, but at the end of the day it's "if __ keeps this up" and "if we can just get a little more from __" then maybe things can happen, maybe we have a shot. It's about winning the next battle just to live another day.
The losing franchises are always doom and gloom, pessimistic with out of wack ideas of what being a winning team even looks like.

Pat fans actually thought they be "back in the SB in no time". Steelers are revving for Kenny. 49ers rally around any QB with a pulse. Cowboys... well, we don't need to go there.

Point is, yes, I do try to see how things can fall into place so that they break our way. I'm not out here beating a drum like it's 2020 (which was still RIDDLED with pessimists). I realize there's more of a chance that Baker or Trask DON'T work out than do, but I'm also aware that's true for literally every QB of any hype. However, I've seen teams that had no business hoisting a Lombardi trophy do just that. And as long as we have these players, with this talent, that have shown this kind of heart, and are bought in this much, I'm not jumping ship. They have absolutely earned that much from me in every way possible. But hey, that's just me.

[BuccaNOLEer]

I don't know how much y'all go on other teams message boards but I do. Let me tell you a big difference between the winning franchises and the losing ones. The winning ones believe they can win. Things change, QBs change, the odds and chances change, but at the end of the day it's "if __ keeps this up" and "if we can just get a little more from __" then maybe things can happen, maybe we have a shot. It's about winning the next battle just to live another day.
The losing franchises are always doom and gloom, pessimistic with out of wack ideas of what being a winning team even looks like.

Pat fans actually thought they be "back in the SB in no time". Steelers are revving for Kenny. 49ers rally around any QB with a pulse. Cowboys... well, we don't need to go there.

Point is, yes, I do try to see how things can fall into place so that they break our way. I'm not out here beating a drum like it's 2020 (which was still RIDDLED with pessimists). I realize there's more of a chance that Baker or Trask DON'T work out than do, but I'm also aware that's true for literally every QB of any hype. However, I've seen teams that had no business hoisting a Lombardi trophy do just that. And as long as we have these players, with this talent, that have shown this kind of heart, and are bought in this much, I'm not jumping ship. They have absolutely earned that much from me in every way possible. But hey, that's just me.

If you heard what Tristan Wirfs said to the media, you'd know that a lot of guys on this team aren't bought in anymore. They got fat and happy after winning that title and didn't respect it.

[Doctor]

That's a gross misrepresentation of what he said, go back and listen to HIS words, not your own.

[Four Verticals]

I don't know how much y'all go on other teams message boards but I do. Let me tell you a big difference between the winning franchises and the losing ones. The winning ones believe they can win. Things change, QBs change, the odds and chances change, but at the end of the day it's "if __ keeps this up" and "if we can just get a little more from __" then maybe things can happen, maybe we have a shot. It's about winning the next battle just to live another day.
The losing franchises are always doom and gloom, pessimistic with out of wack ideas of what being a winning team even looks like.

Pat fans actually thought they be "back in the SB in no time". Steelers are revving for Kenny. 49ers rally around any QB with a pulse. Cowboys... well, we don't need to go there.

Point is, yes, I do try to see how things can fall into place so that they break our way. I'm not out here beating a drum like it's 2020 (which was still RIDDLED with pessimists). I realize there's more of a chance that Baker or Trask DON'T work out than do, but I'm also aware that's true for literally every QB of any hype. However, I've seen teams that had no business hoisting a Lombardi trophy do just that. And as long as we have these players, with this talent, that have shown this kind of heart, and are bought in this much, I'm not jumping ship. They have absolutely earned that much from me in every way possible. But hey, that's just me.

Correct. It's clear that the better franchises with the optimistic fans are winning because of those fan bases.

[Doctor]

Is that what I said?

You wanna have a loser mentality that's on you. But you take a hike trying to sell it as "objective reality".

[13F11B]

"objective reality".

Objective reality is really quite subjective.

[Four Verticals]

Is that what I said?

You wanna have a loser mentality that's on you. But you take a hike trying to sell it as "objective reality".

Who said anyone has a loser mentality and what does that mean for a fan anyway?

If you want to turn every move into a positive that's great but that doesn't mean you can't be called out on it. Some of the hoops you jump through to view a situation as positive are pretty impressive.

Your fandom is no better than the Lugz type who walk around with a "kick me I"m a Bucs fan" sign stapled to their ass.

[13F11B]

Baker will make a fantastic clipboard holder. Good replacement for Gabbert.

[Babeinbucland]

Baker will make a fantastic clipboard holder. Good replacement for Gabbert.

Does that mean you think Trask will be our starter?

[Doctor]

Wouldn't that be something.

See, here's a great example. The Canales system is a bit of a unknown. Trask himself is a mystery box and his fit in the system moreso. Given it's a mystery I can't help but to be excited about the possible outcome, while some have already deemed the entire offense a trash fire irregardless.

[Babeinbucland]

Wouldn't that be something.

See, here's a great example. The Canales system is a bit of a unknown. Trask himself is a mystery box and his fit in the system moreso. Given it's a mystery I can't help but to be excited about the possible outcome, while some have already deemed the entire offense a trash fire irregardless.

I will never comprehend how so many on this board get off on being so negative and downright petty. Smh

[_MB_]

Wouldn't that be something.

See, here's a great example. The Canales system is a bit of a unknown. Trask himself is a mystery box and his fit in the system moreso. Given it's a mystery I can't help but to be excited about the possible outcome, while some have already deemed the entire offense a trash fire irregardless.

If Trask comes out like Fitzmagic to Desean I will piss, shit, and cum all at once.

[Doctor]

Ah, the triple crown

[real bucs fan]

I’m full on the Baker bandwagon, but there seems to be a lot of pre draft smoke that we are looking at QBs in the first. Some think AR15 could fall to us and I think that’s unlikely, but Hooker could/should be on the board.

IMHO this is not the year to take a QB. Let Trask and Mayfield battle it out.

[Doctor]

Why not a 3 way battle? As long as it results in a FQB emerging, that's all that matters.