The expectations for Mahomes are so ridiculously high and unrealistic. His accuracy and ball placement was great as always. You can't account for receivers dropping passes that hit them in the hands while they are running in stride.
The more you post the more you prove you didn't watch the game OR you watched it with a very biased view.
You don't know ball
It seems that everyone outside of Lugz disagrees with you. Even the coach of the Lions said Mahomes was basically the only thing they needed to stop and it's not possible to do.
Not sure what to say to you, he had like 4 balls that weren't perfect, 2 were because he was being hit. They had a ton of drops, the most in an NFL game. The pick 6 was perfect ball placement in relation to the route and defender and it bounced off the hands of Toney.
It seems that everyone outside of Lugz disagrees with you. Even the coach of the Lions said Mahomes was basically the only thing they needed to stop and it's not possible to do.
Not sure what to say to you, he had like 4 balls that weren't perfect, 2 were because he was being hit. They had a ton of drops, the most in an NFL game. The pick 6 was perfect ball placement in relation to the route and defender and it bounced off the hands of Toney.
He had a deep pass in the first half that went through a defender's hands. CJGJ dropped a pick on 3rd down during the final drive. He was off-target on the deep pass that got called for PI. He was slightly off target on some other passes.
Yea, some passes were straight-up drops (like on the pick-six).
Playing QB isn't about running around and looking cool.
It seems that everyone outside of Lugz disagrees with you. Even the coach of the Lions said Mahomes was basically the only thing they needed to stop and it's not possible to do.
Not sure what to say to you, he had like 4 balls that weren't perfect, 2 were because he was being hit. They had a ton of drops, the most in an NFL game. The pick 6 was perfect ball placement in relation to the route and defender and it bounced off the hands of Toney.
He had a deep pass in the first half that went through a defender's hands. CJGJ dropped a pick on 3rd down during the final drive. He was off-target on the deep pass that got called for PI. He was slightly off target on some other passes.
Yea, some passes were straight-up drops (like on the pick-six).
Playing QB isn't about running around and looking cool.
That deep pass was 4 feet over the defenders head and was a throw away. It looked close at first, but it wasn't on the side angle replay and he was hit on the throw.
You've basically listed the 4 passes...it's odd that people expect perfection when he had no protection for much of the night. Brady in his prime was bad with that sort of pressure.
He had a deep pass in the first half that went through a defender's hands. CJGJ dropped a pick on 3rd down during the final drive. He was off-target on the deep pass that got called for PI. He was slightly off target on some other passes.
Yea, some passes were straight-up drops (like on the pick-six).
Playing QB isn't about running around and looking cool.
That deep pass was 4 feet over the defenders head and was a throw away. It looked close at first, but it wasn't on the side angle replay and he was hit on the throw.
You've basically listed the 4 passes...it's odd that people expect perfection when he had no protection for much of the night. Brady in his prime was bad with that sort of pressure.
No protection? 4 feet over the defenders? That ball went of his fingertips buddy.
I don't expect perfection, I'm pointing out he wasn't perfect (or good).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
That deep pass was 4 feet over the defenders head and was a throw away. It looked close at first, but it wasn't on the side angle replay and he was hit on the throw.
You've basically listed the 4 passes...it's odd that people expect perfection when he had no protection for much of the night. Brady in his prime was bad with that sort of pressure.
No protection? 4 feet over the defenders? That ball went of his fingertips buddy.
I don't expect perfection, I'm pointing out he wasn't perfect (or good).
And others are saying you are incorrect. You can pick out 4 passes out of 39 throws and then say "He wasn't good", you aren't being realistic. The opposite view showed that there was no chance at a catch there.
You are speaking about it like he threw it into a defenders hands.
If you take away the drops he threw for 65% with some absolutely insane throws, high level plays and escaped multiple sacks and amassed 270 yards and 2 TDs.
If that wasn't a "good" performance, I'm not sure what is considered "good"?
No protection? 4 feet over the defenders? That ball went of his fingertips buddy.
I don't expect perfection, I'm pointing out he wasn't perfect (or good).
And others are saying you are incorrect. You can pick out 4 passes out of 39 throws and then say "He wasn't good", you aren't being realistic. The opposite view showed that there was no chance at a catch there.
You are speaking about it like he threw it into a defenders hands.
If you take away the drops he threw for 65% with some absolutely insane throws, high level plays and escaped multiple sacks and amassed 270 yards and 2 TDs.
If that wasn't a "good" performance, I'm not sure what is considered "good"?
Others are wrong.
You are wrong.
*Not hands, apparently
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
And others are saying you are incorrect. You can pick out 4 passes out of 39 throws and then say "He wasn't good", you aren't being realistic. The opposite view showed that there was no chance at a catch there.
You are speaking about it like he threw it into a defenders hands.
If you take away the drops he threw for 65% with some absolutely insane throws, high level plays and escaped multiple sacks and amassed 270 yards and 2 TDs.
If that wasn't a "good" performance, I'm not sure what is considered "good"?
Others are wrong.
You are wrong.
*Not hands, apparently
The picture doesn't disprove anything else I've said beyond that 1 single pass that I've already mentioned as one of his poor throws. He had a tiny amount compared the body of work in the game. He was not off and did not have a bad game, but that picture is not what I remember, so I'll concede that. It doesn't shift the entire game.
Mahomes remind me of prime Rodgers. The game is in slow motion for him. He's fast enough to be a problem when there's grass in front of him. He'll snatch a 15 yard gain with his feet but always has his head downfield until he crosses LOS. The arm talent is insane but he doesn't even flaunt it or abuse it. Most of the time it feels like he's throwing at 65% velocity and just grooving it in there. Just effortless.
His pressure sense is crazy too. I was tempted to say he has a tendency to hold onto the ball too long. In reality, he only takes 1.5 sacks per game and averages like 1 fumble every 3rd game. Broken plays are his forte. Get guys moving sideways and he senses the creases. Can't really teach that.
For my money, I'm taking Brady because he's so clutch, precise, prepared, and the track record. But Mahomes is right behind him with Rodgers for me. 3rd and 15 feels like 1st and 5. I almost assume Reid and Mahomes on 3rd and Long is an automatic first down. Rodgers and Mahomes provide that athleticism, scheme flexibility, and improvisation.
If I'm playing the Chiefs, I'm going for it on every 4th and short, I'm chancing everything in the first half. Keep the ball away from Reid/Mahomes, embrace risk for the potential for more points over settling for FGs. Etc.
We will what happens with their WRs and if they make any adjustments.
Last edited by Snake on Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The picture doesn't disprove anything else I've said beyond that 1 single pass that I've already mentioned as one of his poor throws. He had a tiny amount compared the body of work in the game. He was not off and did not have a bad game, but that picture is not what I remember, so I'll concede that. It doesn't shift the entire game.
Throwing the ball to the defense twice means you didn't not have a good game.
Max wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:02 pm
Playing QB isn't about running around and looking cool.
Ah, so you did have an agenda.
It's pointless debating with people like this who don't objectively look at Mahomes game. Like you said, @uscbucsfan1 4 passes in 39 weren't good. There were at least twice as many that his receivers dropped and/or misplaced.
The bar for Mahomes is higher than anyone in the game. You put the other 31 QBs in this league in his situation last night I guarantee you it isn't a 1 point game. It's more likely a 10 point loss.
Max wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:02 pm
Playing QB isn't about running around and looking cool.
Ah, so you did have an agenda.
It's pointless debating with people like this who don't objectively look at Mahomes game. Like you said, @uscbucsfan1 4 passes in 39 weren't good. There were at least twice as many that his receivers dropped and/or misplaced.
The bar for Mahomes is higher than anyone in the game. You put the other 31 QBs in this league in his situation last night I guarantee you it isn't a 1 point game. It's more likely a 10 point loss.
It's pointless debating with people like this who don't objectively look at Mahomes game. Like you said, @uscbucsfan1 4 passes in 39 weren't good. There were at least twice as many that his receivers dropped and/or misplaced.
The bar for Mahomes is higher than anyone in the game. You put the other 31 QBs in this league in his situation last night I guarantee you it isn't a 1 point game. It's more likely a 10 point loss.
You don't know ball
It's a fact that you don't either. Especially if you think throw aways are passes that should've been picked and 4 bad throws constitute a bad outing.
It's a fact that you don't either. Especially if you think throw aways are passes that should've been picked and 4 bad throws constitute a bad outing.
You don't know ball
You can repeat this all you'd like. You've been proven completely wrong here and by your own admission biased. Use it as a coping mechanism if it makes you feel better. Fact is Mahomes was let down by his receiving group.
Rashee Rice dropped one in the opening minutes. Kadarius Toney had one bounce off his hands, get picked and returned 50 yards for a touchdown, all before dropping another long pass in the waning minutes. Skyy Moore had one bounce off his hands, as did backup tight end Noah Gray and Jerick McKinnon, a running back known for his dependable hands.
Snake wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:53 pm
Mahomes isn't perfect. No one is saying he is. He made some bad throws. Now what?
Perfect? Of course not. "Bad game" because of 4 off target passes out of 39? Fuck outta here. If that's the bar, then every QB in football has a bad game every single game.
Bootz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:58 pm
I don't even know who this receiver is Mahomes just threw a TD pass to.
And why didn't we get this Donovan Smith in Tampa?
Donovan Smith's issues in Tampa weren't related to being able to block someone...particularly in pass protection. It was the magnificent ability to have the one or two complete fuck ups per game which completely obliterated a positive performance. Nothings changed.
Snake wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:53 pm
Mahomes isn't perfect. No one is saying he is. He made some bad throws. Now what?
I responded to someone claiming he was playing "god mode".
He threw the ball to the defense two times. He had several other errant throws. His offense scored 20 points against a defense that ranked 31st in EPA/play in 30th in scoring last season.
That was true for both teams. I said it earlier that if this trend holds true, there's going to be fewer holding penalties called. You mentioned Smith & Taylor. Their interior line also held quite a bit. No one held more though than the Lions RT. And they knew it too because they kept running his way.
I personally don't mind it because it allows the game to flow better without numerous penalties being called. There wasn't a single roughing call last night but both QBs got banged around a bit. Those hits were drawing flags in recent years.
Not calling illegal formation on Taylor when he’s lining up behind the tight end practically every play was ridiculous. Holding can get called every play (on both sides), but I get letting them play to a degree in that circumstance. Illegal formation/offsides should be called every time though.
He also false started a couple of times which were not called. I didn't get letting him line up off the ball the entire game either. Terry McAulay pointed this out during the game. I wonder if this gets altered one way or another by the next game either by the Chiefs addressing it before he's called for it or it is forced upon them by the officials.
Also Mike Tirico stating that the victory for the Lions comes with an asterisk because Kelce and Jones were out is simply bullshit. The entire season is full of games affected by injury and is he going to state the same for each of those games. He's a good broadcaster but out of line there.
Not calling illegal formation on Taylor when he’s lining up behind the tight end practically every play was ridiculous. Holding can get called every play (on both sides), but I get letting them play to a degree in that circumstance. Illegal formation/offsides should be called every time though.
Not sure if this is true, but they said on the broadcast that there's a new rule about lineman regarding how they can lineup where what he was doing was not illegal as long as their front foot is on the line.
edit: So I googled it. The rule was new last season. The crown of his helmet has to break the waistline of the center. According to the NFL, he was in the correct position all game and him and Trent Williams were the two that took the most advantage of this rule last year.
IMO he did jump a bunch of snaps.
McAulay referenced the rule properly and said that he wasn't close to meeting the requirement. "remotely close" were his words.
Mahomes played well last night. As bad as Toney was last night, without seeing it more than the replays shown last night, I thought the pass for the pick 6 was a bit behind Toney which is always dangerous on a crossing route.
Four Verticals wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:17 pm
Mahomes played well last night. As bad as Toney was last night, without seeing it more than the replays shown last night, I thought the pass for the pick 6 was a bit behind Toney which is always dangerous on a crossing route.
The ball placement wasn't perfect on some of the drops. That said, if an NFL WR can get both hands on a ball, I expect them to catch it.
Four Verticals wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:17 pm
Mahomes played well last night. As bad as Toney was last night, without seeing it more than the replays shown last night, I thought the pass for the pick 6 was a bit behind Toney which is always dangerous on a crossing route.
This is an image before it hit his hands and after. It was thrown in front of him. He may have had to slow a bit, but it was in front of him.
This was another drop:
Toney was terrible.
Actually didn't look like he had to slow up at all:
BuccaNOLEer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:01 am
Congratulations Kadarius Toney, the pride of the Gators. You singlehandedly won the game for the Lions thanks to your hands of stone.
How was he ever a 1st round pick?
Because Toney is/was fast and explosive, and he flashed those elite traits in college.
Also, both Toney and Kyle Pitts were first round picks due to their college production and have since flamed out in the pros thus far, although both players are still young and they have time to turn things around. As I recall, they had this stud of a QB throwing them balls at Florida. Maybe he made them look better than they actually were.
Because Toney is/was fast and explosive, and he flashed those elite traits in college.
Also, both Toney and Kyle Pitts were first round picks due to their college production and have since flamed out in the pros thus far, although both players are still young and they have time to turn things around. As I recall, they had this stud of a QB throwing them balls at Florida. Maybe he made them look better than they actually were.
If only I could remember that guy's name.
I think Pitts was the second rookie TE with 1,000 yards in NFL history and almost set the record.
He missed 7 games last year and wasn't great when he played, but he had Mariota and Ridder at QB.
I don't know if you can say he's flamed out, yet, but could.
Because Toney is/was fast and explosive, and he flashed those elite traits in college.
Also, both Toney and Kyle Pitts were first round picks due to their college production and have since flamed out in the pros thus far, although both players are still young and they have time to turn things around. As I recall, they had this stud of a QB throwing them balls at Florida. Maybe he made them look better than they actually were.
If only I could remember that guy's name.
Coaches will always overdraft explosiveness. Toney was a lotto ticket that didn't pay off for the Giants initially but the Chiefs decided to try the numbers again at a discount, to their detriment. You could see from watching him in college he wasn't playing an NFL game.
Pitts...I have no idea what Atlanta is doing. Way too much blocking on pass routes. Way too few progressions where he's the primary or even secondary option. I wouldn't be happy right now if I were a Falcons fan, but I would be far from giving up on him.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Four Verticals wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:17 pm
Mahomes played well last night. As bad as Toney was last night, without seeing it more than the replays shown last night, I thought the pass for the pick 6 was a bit behind Toney which is always dangerous on a crossing route.
This is an image before it hit his hands and after. It was thrown in front of him. He may have had to slow a bit, but it was in front of him.
This was another drop:
Toney was terrible.
Actually didn't look like he had to slow up at all:
Yeah. Now watching the replay, the ball was right where it should be.
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:00 am
The Chiefs just might have the worst group of receivers in football.
Andy Reid has won a ton of games in the league, mostly with the Eagles, with sub-par receivers. But last night, we saw what happens when even a great coach tries to execute an offense with no difference makers (outside the QB) and nobody the QB can trust. It's impressive to me they scored 4 times honestly.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
