2021 NFL Season

[CantonJester]

The Ravens are still a team that looks like a 3-8 team rather than 8-3. They play down to their competition so often you must wonder if they’re just not that good. You wouldn’t want to face them in the playoffs, but it’s not like it’d shock the world if they got ball-smacked by the Jaguars, either.

[MJW]

What the hell do the Browns do with Baker long-term?

It's legit one of the biggest lose-lose situations I've seen with a QB in some time.

The fans love him (at least most of the time.) He's still young. He was the #1 overall pick. He's played at a Pro Bowl level already in his career.

But he looks horrible. He can't stay healthy. He throws as many "bad balls" from clean pockets as any QB in the league. He's roughly the 20th best QB, and just by the nature of the economics, he's in-line for a huge extension.

If they don't re-sign him, they're gambling big on finding someone better without the benefit of all those top five draft picks.

If they do, it's entirely possible they'll be paying a top ten salary for a bottom ten quarterback going forward.

Interestingly, it's *kinda* like what happened with Bernie Kosar and Belichick, although Kosar was much older than Baker. The fans loved Kosar the same way the Broncos fans did Elway, only Kosar wasn't great. Belichick came in and unloaded him, which was both a) the absolute correct call and b) the beginning of the end of his time in Cleveland.

[Dread]

This is why you don't invest big money (or top 10 picks) into a Running Back. It's too volatile of a position due to injury. You can't count/rely on them to be in the line-up consistently which puts your team at a disadvantage.

It will be interesting see what the Giants do with Saquan once his 5th year option expires after next season.

[ATrain]

Unfortunately for McCaffrey he wasn't born with the genetic cheat code needed to allow his body to keep up with his uncharacteristic athleticism.

[The Outsider]

This is why you don't invest big money (or top 10 picks) into a Running Back. It's too volatile of a position due to injury. You can't count/rely on them to be in the line-up consistently which puts your team at a disadvantage.

It will be interesting see what the Giants do with Saquan once his 5th year option expires after next season.

It's also why you don't make one small-ish RB your entire offense to the point of giving him an absurd amount of touches every season. McCaffrey and Saquon are different beasts. Unfortunately Saquon just has injury issues, he never really had a chance to get run in to the ground. McCaffrey has been literally run in to the ground. Like text book case of overusing a great back.

[Dread]

What the hell do the Browns do with Baker long-term?

It's legit one of the biggest lose-lose situations I've seen with a QB in some time.

The fans love him (at least most of the time.) He's still young. He was the #1 overall pick. He's played at a Pro Bowl level already in his career.

But he looks horrible. He can't stay healthy. He throws as many "bad balls" from clean pockets as any QB in the league. He's roughly the 20th best QB, and just by the nature of the economics, he's in-line for a huge extension.

If they don't re-sign him, they're gambling big on finding someone better without the benefit of all those top five draft picks.

If they do, it's entirely possible they'll be paying a top ten salary for a bottom ten quarterback going forward.

Interestingly, it's *kinda* like what happened with Bernie Kosar and Belichick, although Kosar was much older than Baker. The fans loved Kosar the same way the Broncos fans did Elway, only Kosar wasn't great. Belichick came in and unloaded him, which was both a) the absolute correct call and b) the beginning of the end of his time in Cleveland.

I think Baker is done in Cleveland.

The Browns know he's not and likely never going to be 'the guy' there who can put the team on his shoulders and win games the way you need your QB to if you're going to pay him near the top of the market.

The Browns will be a very attractive destination for guys like Aaron Rodgers, Deshawn Watson, Russell Wilson, etc who may be available this offseason. They have a good young defense with a perennial DPOY edge rusher in Myles Garrett with young talent at every level of that defense.

On offense they have a really good Oline who is all signed for the next few years (they may need to address RT since Conklin can stay healthy anymore), Two stud RBs, and a great HC who runs a scheme that proven to be successful.

The Browns might be the best roster in the NFL if you take away the QB position.

[uscbucsfan]

It will be interesting see what the Giants do with Saquan once his 5th year option expires after next season.

He's not the type of RB that can just run and carry a team on his back, but he's so fast and versatile, he doesn't really need to be.

He's also missed more than 1/3 of his games and when he was drafted there were many reports in the Giants org that they thought it was a bad pick, because the team was so bad.

The Giants will likely keep him and he'll continue to struggle to stay on the field. Who else are they going to pay on that roster?

Regarding CMC, all rumors were that the Panthers tried to unload him in the offseason, but no one would bite. Everyone assumes they will trade him for Watson, but we'll see.

[ATrain]

Thoughts on Russell Wilson? Is he cooked? Or can his finger injury be the explanation for his bad play?

If a team is going to trade for Wilson this type of season may be good for the trading team since his price may tumble a bit. Maybe.

Assuming he's not done physically, I'd really like to see him on her Browns. They would be very formidable with Wilson under center who can lean on their running attack but can also win when things go off schedule.

They Browns are very much like we were pre-Brady. Extremely talented across the board but just needs The Guy to get them over the hump.

Probably won't happen but it would be cool for the city of Cleveland to finally have a real QB and genuine hope to compete against the best

[CantonJester]

So...who kicks a chip shot FG to seal the game away in the waning seconds in the event Ryan Succup gets obliterated on a blocked FG earlier in the game?

[IchabodCrane84]

So...who kicks a chip shot FG to seal the game away in the waning seconds in the event Ryan Succup gets obliterated on a blocked FG earlier in the game?

Vita Vea knows about chip shots.

[Grahamburn]

So...who kicks a chip shot FG to seal the game away in the waning seconds in the event Ryan Succup gets obliterated on a blocked FG earlier in the game?

Pinion had an attempt earlier this season from 50+

Almost made it too.

[CantonJester]

Was watching last night in real time and got to thinking how vulnerable a roster of 46 suited-up players can be if there's only one legit kicker on the squad.

[Cheb]

So...who kicks a chip shot FG to seal the game away in the waning seconds in the event Ryan Succup gets obliterated on a blocked FG earlier in the game?

Vita Vea knows about chip shots.

Reading that made my teeth hurt.

[MJW]

What the hell do the Browns do with Baker long-term?

It's legit one of the biggest lose-lose situations I've seen with a QB in some time.

The fans love him (at least most of the time.) He's still young. He was the #1 overall pick. He's played at a Pro Bowl level already in his career.

But he looks horrible. He can't stay healthy. He throws as many "bad balls" from clean pockets as any QB in the league. He's roughly the 20th best QB, and just by the nature of the economics, he's in-line for a huge extension.

If they don't re-sign him, they're gambling big on finding someone better without the benefit of all those top five draft picks.

If they do, it's entirely possible they'll be paying a top ten salary for a bottom ten quarterback going forward.

Interestingly, it's *kinda* like what happened with Bernie Kosar and Belichick, although Kosar was much older than Baker. The fans loved Kosar the same way the Broncos fans did Elway, only Kosar wasn't great. Belichick came in and unloaded him, which was both a) the absolute correct call and b) the beginning of the end of his time in Cleveland.

I think Baker is done in Cleveland.

The Browns know he's not and likely never going to be 'the guy' there who can put the team on his shoulders and win games the way you need your QB to if you're going to pay him near the top of the market.

The Browns will be a very attractive destination for guys like Aaron Rodgers, Deshawn Watson, Russell Wilson, etc who may be available this offseason. They have a good young defense with a perennial DPOY edge rusher in Myles Garrett with young talent at every level of that defense.

On offense they have a really good Oline who is all signed for the next few years (they may need to address RT since Conklin can stay healthy anymore), Two stud RBs, and a great HC who runs a scheme that proven to be successful.

The Browns might be the best roster in the NFL if you take away the QB position.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying. If I'm GM of the Browns, I'm treating him like Jameis. Next year is his 5th year option season. If he develops as hoped, I tag him if necessary and try to work out a deal. If he doesn't, he walks after that 5th year. I don't see any scenario where they're not married to him through next season though.

But I've been around long enough to see how bad teams treat guys they've embraced. And the Browns fans have embraced Baker. In other words, the Browns will need big brass cajones to do what we're discussing.

What probably happens (not to be confused with the above "what I'd do") is, Baker will get a fake long-term deal with big flash numbers. In reality, it'll be a 1 or 2 year extension the Browns can get out from under with minimal cap implications.

[MJW]

Thoughts on Russell Wilson? Is he cooked? Or can his finger injury be the explanation for his bad play?

If a team is going to trade for Wilson this type of season may be good for the trading team since his price may tumble a bit. Maybe.

Assuming he's not done physically, I'd really like to see him on her Browns. They would be very formidable with Wilson under center who can lean on their running attack but can also win when things go off schedule.

They Browns are very much like we were pre-Brady. Extremely talented across the board but just needs The Guy to get them over the hump.

Probably won't happen but it would be cool for the city of Cleveland to finally have a real QB and genuine hope to compete against the best

I don't know if he's cooked. I don't believe he's forgotten how to play, or his body has degraded so much in a season that he has nothing left.

I do know they could have scored 3 First Rounders for him last offseason, and they'll be lucky to get 2 if they shop him now.

FWIW, if I'm the Seahawks, I'm blowing it up after this season. Pete Carroll "retires," John Schneider gets hardcore fired (look at his draft record the last 5 years, it's grotesque.) I'm shopping Wilson, devauled and all. I'm selling off what I can. Rebuilding. It's a bad roster.

[ATrain]

Thoughts on Russell Wilson? Is he cooked? Or can his finger injury be the explanation for his bad play?

If a team is going to trade for Wilson this type of season may be good for the trading team since his price may tumble a bit. Maybe.

Assuming he's not done physically, I'd really like to see him on her Browns. They would be very formidable with Wilson under center who can lean on their running attack but can also win when things go off schedule.

They Browns are very much like we were pre-Brady. Extremely talented across the board but just needs The Guy to get them over the hump.

Probably won't happen but it would be cool for the city of Cleveland to finally have a real QB and genuine hope to compete against the best

I don't know if he's cooked. I don't believe he's forgotten how to play, or his body has degraded so much in a season that he has nothing left.

I do know they could have scored 3 First Rounders for him last offseason, and they'll be lucky to get 2 if they shop him now.

FWIW, if I'm the Seahawks, I'm blowing it up after this season. Pete Carroll "retires," John Schneider gets hardcore fired (look at his draft record the last 5 years, it's grotesque.) I'm shopping Wilson, devauled and all. I'm selling off what I can. Rebuilding. It's a bad roster.

Agreed. Let's just hope he doesn't end up in the Saints....

[King Bootz]

A ton of knee-jerk going on about the Seahawks.

Let's keep things in perspective. People say blow up the operation, fire Carrol & Schnider, and trade Russell Wilson because this team is about to have their 1st losing season since 2011?

You wanna know how many other teams can say that? 1. Pittsburgh. And they've had 8-8 seasons unlike Seattle that had never been below 9-7.

It's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. It would be like suggesting that the Packers should've traded Rodgers years ago and blown up the team. What exactly is the end game? Gather a bunch of picks, a new coach and GM and HOPE that over a 10 year period they go to the playoffs 8 times including 2 Super Bowls? Please.

[BLT]

Yeah, but that's how the NFL works. Nothing that happened before this year matters anymore and Pittsburgh also needs a complete refresh, is the worst team in their division after ruling it for a decade, and their QB is done.... so bad example.

[King Bootz]

Yeah, but that's how the NFL works. Nothing that happened before this year matters anymore and Pittsburgh also needs a complete refresh, is the worst team in their division after ruling it for a decade, and their QB is done.... so bad example.

If that were how the NFL worked, Drew Brees would've never finished his career in New Orleans. Rodgers would've been moved a long time ago. Same with Roethlisberger. Tomlin, Harbaugh, Belichick even would be out of a job or with new teams. That's not at all how the NFL works.

[BLT]

Uhhhhhh..... no?

[BLT]

From what you're saying Brett Favre should still be ballin' out there, and Drew Brees does still play for the Saints...

[King Bootz]

From what you're saying Brett Favre should still be ballin' out there, and Drew Brees does still play for the Saints...

You’re certainly not dumb enough to come to that conclusion are you? There’s no way that you truly believe that right? This can go 1 of 2 ways for you and it completely depends on your response.

[BLT]

You just came up with a response that could be applied to every one of your posts.

[King Bootz]

You just came up with a response that could be applied to every one of your posts.

Smart choice to let go of the ridiculous point you were about to make. Glad I talked you out of that stupidity.

[BLT]

You mean like making the point that no one is ever done and teams don't need to be rebuilt because they were good before?

Cuz that was all you my man.

[MJW]

A ton of knee-jerk going on about the Seahawks.

Let's keep things in perspective. People say blow up the operation, fire Carrol & Schnider, and trade Russell Wilson because this team is about to have their 1st losing season since 2011?

You wanna know how many other teams can say that? 1. Pittsburgh. And they've had 8-8 seasons unlike Seattle that had never been below 9-7.

It's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. It would be like suggesting that the Packers should've traded Rodgers years ago and blown up the team. What exactly is the end game? Gather a bunch of picks, a new coach and GM and HOPE that over a 10 year period they go to the playoffs 8 times including 2 Super Bowls? Please.

Making decisions based on the past value of your assets and not their future is bad management 101. Certainly you realize this? I shouldn't have to expand on this point, should I? The 2021 Seahawks - the ones who take the field on Sunday - are bad. They won't be assisted in their efforts to defeat Sunday's opponent by either younger versions of themselves (in the cases of guys like Wilson or Wagner) or the guys who won a Superbowl like eight years ago. It doesn't work like that. It's a bad roster with only a few relative strengths and not a relative amount of good young talent. There are not many players who one could objectively say, "Once HE comes into his prime, they'll be competing again." Way too many draft misses in recent years. Way too many marginal players in major roles.

Looking at the helmet and saying, "But the Seahawks are usually good!" is not an argument. They're not good now. Honestly this is an incredibly shallow argument on your part.

There are only two acceptable states a football team should operate in - as a legitimate title contender trying to bolster those odds, or as a team maximizing future assets by unloading players who won't be around for when the first group happens, while giving valuable roster spots and reps to players who will hopefully develop. That's it. If you're doing neither, you're wasting everyone's time. Bringing back these Seahawks and pretending they're just a few good moves away from competing from a title will just delay the inevitable: accepting they should be operating in that second group and behaving accordingly. Dealing veterans past or near the end of their primes. Stockpiling resources, including cap room and draft picks, but also opportunities for young players to develop. If you want to keep an expensive 33 year old QB who appears to be in decline (but still has real trade value), you still haven't accepted you're in the second group. You think you're secretly in that first group. It was stupid last offseason when the Falcons did it with Matt Ryan. All they did was delay the inevitable by a year and waste everyone's time.

RE: Carroll, maybe they should keep him? Or maybe, at 70, he's not the ideal coach to lead a major rebuild. But there's no way you'll convince we John Schneider shouldn't go, and presumably a new GM will want his own coach.

[BLT]

The reason people say Trade Russ is because the Seahawks need so much to be fixed, don't have a first rounder next year to even start the process, and by the time they rebuild the trenches of that team Russell will be dead or retired.

The trade would be mutually beneficial for a complete team needing better QB play, Russel Wilson, and the future of the Seahawks.

[King Bootz]

Again, to both of you @MJW @BLT if the NFL operated that way, Brees would have never been in New Orleans as long as he was. By your logic, Payton and Brees should've been gone after 2008 because they missed the playoffs the 2 seasons prior. Aaron Rodgers should've traded the same year McCarthy was fired because of the 6-9-1 season that followed the 7-9 season.

Not at all how the NFL works. But if it pleases you to live in your own alternate reality, then by all means.

[BLT]

K

[Moozician]

Somewhat relevant to this discussion... We have a 44-year-old QB that WILL decline at some point. Sure, use Brady while he's good. But is Blaine Gabbert "the future?" Or is Kyle Trask? I ask this because I have heard absolutely NOTHING about Trask's progress. That leads me to believe that the staff thinks that he may be a bust.

Thoughts?

[King Bootz]

Somewhat relevant to this discussion... We have a 44-year-old QB that WILL decline at some point. Sure, use Brady while he's good. But is Blaine Gabbert "the future?" Or is Kyle Trask? I ask this because I have heard absolutely NOTHING about Trask's progress. That leads me to believe that the staff thinks that he may be a bust.

Thoughts?

He's a 3rd stringer. At best he's getting scout team reps in practice. But otherwise it's doubtful he's getting much progress from a physical standpoint. All of his progress is mental preparation, film study, etc.

[Xandtar]

I for one am glad that we DON'T hear anything about Trask, that they're willing to bring him along slowly behind the curtain.

Some will say he's a waste of a second round pick and they may be right, but he could also be a sponge learning from the GOAT while getting ready to at least replace Gabbie in 2022 and be able to start if needed by 2023 at the latest. And maybe, just maybe, all that GOAT essence he's trying to absorb will turn the rest of the NFL into we-coulda-had-him's. On the other hand, if he's still buried in the depth chart in September 2023, then yes he's another Griff who was a little too expensive in draft capital. But we're years away from knowing for sure, playing behind the GOAT who is rarely off the field when the O is on might have something to do with that.

[Buc2]

This may be a dumb question. Are inactive players allowed to be on the sideline on game day?

[BLT]

No questions are dumb questions.

It's just dumb to type them here instead of in Google.

[King Bootz]

I for one am glad that we DON'T hear anything about Trask, that they're willing to bring him along slowly behind the curtain.

Some will say he's a waste of a second round pick and they may be right, but he could also be a sponge learning from the GOAT while getting ready to at least replace Gabbie in 2022 and be able to start if needed by 2023 at the latest. And maybe, just maybe, all that GOAT essence he's trying to absorb will turn the rest of the NFL into we-coulda-had-him's. On the other hand, if he's still buried in the depth chart in September 2023, then yes he's another Griff who was a little too expensive in draft capital. But we're years away from knowing for sure, playing behind the GOAT who is rarely off the field when the O is on might have something to do with that.

Matt Cassel. Ryan Mallet. Jimmy G. Jacoby Brissett. Brian Hoyer. Kevin O'Connell. Zack Robinson. There's more than enough evidence to suggest that sitting behind Brady means very little to a QBs long term career.