Rapid Reactions Week 8

[BLT]

TJ had a good game, caught everything except the 14 yarder when he thought to hard about getting out of bounds with 32 seconds left. I think he should get even more targets at a higher priority.

Uhhh no, he shouldn’t. He struggles in 1 on 1s against 4th CBs and safeties. Don’t want to see him against teams better corners.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that ALL of his catches have come in 3 or 4 WR sets?

Coincidence that all his catches come in the only formations he’s in? No not really

[King Bootz]

Uhhh no, he shouldn’t. He struggles in 1 on 1s against 4th CBs and safeties. Don’t want to see him against teams better corners.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that ALL of his catches have come in 3 or 4 WR sets?

Coincidence that all his catches come in the only formations he’s in? No not really

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

[Cheb]

Coincidence that all his catches come in the only formations he’s in? No not really

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

Tyler Johnson isn't there yet, but he's shown flashes of good play. Given how much he's seen the field, that's all you can really ask for.

TJ has 26 career touches. By comparison, Chris Godwin had 50 his rookie year, and he didn't really become who he is until that last game of his rookie season where he caught that game winner against the Saints and had his first 100 yard game.

No one is saying that TJ is a finished product, and to expect it at this point is naive.

Remember Scotty Miller's rookie year, where he was warm dogshit 90% of the time? Contrast that with his play prior to his injury.

Consistency will come with time, one way or another.

I'm bullish on Tyler Johnson moving forward.

Go Bucs.

[MJW]

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

Tyler Johnson isn't there yet, but he's shown flashes of good play. Given how much he's seen the field, that's all you can really ask for.

TJ has 26 career touches. By comparison, Chris Godwin had 50 his rookie year, and he didn't really become who he is until that last game of his rookie season where he caught that game winner against the Saints and had his first 100 yard game.

No one is saying that TJ is a finished product, and to expect it at this point is naive.

Remember Scotty Miller's rookie year, where he was warm dogshit 90% of the time? Contrast that with his play prior to his injury.

Consistency will come with time, one way or another.

I'm bullish on Tyler Johnson moving forward.

Go Bucs.

This.

He's young. His route running needs work. It doesn't always happen immediately. But "if you throw him the ball, he'll probably catch it" is a huge part of the math.

I don't understand TJ hate. Nobody is saying he's Godwin, beyond the fact that they have similar builds.

More to the point Bootz is making...there will be TOUGH decisions this offseason. There are a lot of guys I want to lock up before Godwin, in part because TJ is a good player and we're not going to implode without him.

Frankly, judging by the way Brady has struggled without AB, I think I'd rather give him 1-8 than Godwin 1-18, when I can use the savings elsewhere.

[King Bootz]

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

Tyler Johnson isn't there yet, but he's shown flashes of good play. Given how much he's seen the field, that's all you can really ask for.

TJ has 26 career touches. By comparison, Chris Godwin had 50 his rookie year, and he didn't really become who he is until that last game of his rookie season where he caught that game winner against the Saints and had his first 100 yard game.

No one is saying that TJ is a finished product, and to expect it at this point is naive.

Remember Scotty Miller's rookie year, where he was warm dogshit 90% of the time? Contrast that with his play prior to his injury.

Consistency will come with time, one way or another.

I'm bullish on Tyler Johnson moving forward.

Go Bucs.

And none of that equates to “he can replace Godwin”. Nope, don’t see it. It’s not on tape. It’s barely part of his game. You put him in Godwin’s position, you get what you deserve and you won’t like it.

A big part of evaluating TJ is taking off the pewter glasses. He’s clearly being judged with pewter shades on. Put him on any other roster, he’s still a #4. A receiver with nice size, good hands, but struggles to get separation, runs routes half speed and inconsistently, has almost no speed (seriously he got tracked down by a LB after he broke a tackle and had nothing but green in front of him).

[King Bootz]

Tyler Johnson isn't there yet, but he's shown flashes of good play. Given how much he's seen the field, that's all you can really ask for.

TJ has 26 career touches. By comparison, Chris Godwin had 50 his rookie year, and he didn't really become who he is until that last game of his rookie season where he caught that game winner against the Saints and had his first 100 yard game.

No one is saying that TJ is a finished product, and to expect it at this point is naive.

Remember Scotty Miller's rookie year, where he was warm dogshit 90% of the time? Contrast that with his play prior to his injury.

Consistency will come with time, one way or another.

I'm bullish on Tyler Johnson moving forward.

Go Bucs.

This.

He's young. His route running needs work. It doesn't always happen immediately. But "if you throw him the ball, he'll probably catch it" is a huge part of the math.

I don't understand TJ hate. Nobody is saying he's Godwin, beyond the fact that they have similar builds.

More to the point Bootz is making...there will be TOUGH decisions this offseason. There are a lot of guys I want to lock up before Godwin, in part because TJ is a good player and we're not going to implode without him.

Frankly, judging by the way Brady has struggled without AB, I think I'd rather give him 1-8 than Godwin 1-18, when I can use the savings elsewhere.

You know who comes to mind? Sammie Stroughter. Remember the major man-crush everyone had over him? Different type of receiver than TJ, but a handful of quality plays clouded people’s judgment and had them believing he had “it”.

[MJW]

This.

He's young. His route running needs work. It doesn't always happen immediately. But "if you throw him the ball, he'll probably catch it" is a huge part of the math.

I don't understand TJ hate. Nobody is saying he's Godwin, beyond the fact that they have similar builds.

More to the point Bootz is making...there will be TOUGH decisions this offseason. There are a lot of guys I want to lock up before Godwin, in part because TJ is a good player and we're not going to implode without him.

Frankly, judging by the way Brady has struggled without AB, I think I'd rather give him 1-8 than Godwin 1-18, when I can use the savings elsewhere.

You know who comes to mind? Sammie Stroughter. Remember the major man-crush everyone had over him? Different type of receiver than TJ, but a handful of quality plays clouded people’s judgment and had them believing he had “it”.

Maybe? You could be right. Time will tell. But I don't remember Sammie doing anything like what TJ did on third and long against the Saints in the playoffs. Nor did Sammie have Tom Brady around, making every "pretty good" receiver look like a stud.

Part of the "Brady Effect" is you don't have to spend $35 mil on your receiver room for just this reason. Tom Brady won an NFL MVP throwing to David Patten.

There's a bit of a chicken and the egg here. Did Brady find the fountain of youth here because Evans/Godwin/AB/Scotty/TJ were that good? Or did he elevate those guys a bit by throwing accurate, on-time passes? Dunno.

Regardless, there will be tough decisions this offseason. If my choices are, "A difference-making defensive player" or "an A weapon for Tom, with a B weapon in the wings" I'm going for the defender.

[King Bootz]

You know who comes to mind? Sammie Stroughter. Remember the major man-crush everyone had over him? Different type of receiver than TJ, but a handful of quality plays clouded people’s judgment and had them believing he had “it”.

Maybe? You could be right. Time will tell. But I don't remember Sammie doing anything like what TJ did on third and long against the Saints in the playoffs. Nor did Sammie have Tom Brady around, making every "pretty good" receiver look like a stud.

Part of the "Brady Effect" is you don't have to spend $35 mil on your receiver room for just this reason. Tom Brady won an NFL MVP throwing to David Patten.

There's a bit of a chicken and the egg here. Did Brady find the fountain of youth here because Evans/Godwin/AB/Scotty/TJ were that good? Or did he elevate those guys a bit by throwing accurate, on-time passes? Dunno.

Regardless, there will be tough decisions this offseason. If my choices are, "A difference-making defensive player" or "an A weapon for Tom, with a B weapon in the wings" I'm going for the defender.

Stroughter’s defining moment was a 4th & 11 catch he made while falling down. It was an amazing catch and that pewter sparkle started growing brighter.

Pretty obvious why Brady came here. He came here with 2 young All-Pro WRs already on the roster and under contract. But that’s not to say he didn’t help elevate them. Mike Evans has turned into more than a 50/50 WR. Godwin was already trending up and continued that trend under Brady. Scotty didn’t get many chances his rookie year but he looked pretty good in limited action before injuries hit him. AB and TJ got here after Brady.

You’ve been making a false equivalence between Godwin and some unknown defender at an unknown position for a while. Signing Godwin to a new deal does not equal missing out on this unknown
player that will likely never reach FA. Continuing to overpay aging veterans might. Continuing to push dead cap money into the future might. Godwin helps more than he hurts. Smart teams find a way to keep great young players.

[Cheb]

This upcoming off-season isn't going to be about whether to pay Godwin or some unnamed defender. We have fifteen key players who are going to be free agents, and the vast majority of them will leave Tampa. Godwin would likely command the highest price on the open market of that bunch, and if we choose to pay him, we do so at the cost of being unable to resign another handful of those dudes.

[mdb1958]

TJ had a good game, caught everything except the 14 yarder when he thought to hard about getting out of bounds with 32 seconds left. I think he should get even more targets at a higher priority.

Uhhh no, he shouldn’t. He struggles in 1 on 1s against 4th CBs and safeties. Don’t want to see him against teams better corners.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that ALL of his catches have come in 3 or 4 WR sets?

Not true.

[mdb1958]

Tyler Johnson isn't there yet, but he's shown flashes of good play. Given how much he's seen the field, that's all you can really ask for.

TJ has 26 career touches. By comparison, Chris Godwin had 50 his rookie year, and he didn't really become who he is until that last game of his rookie season where he caught that game winner against the Saints and had his first 100 yard game.

No one is saying that TJ is a finished product, and to expect it at this point is naive.

Remember Scotty Miller's rookie year, where he was warm dogshit 90% of the time? Contrast that with his play prior to his injury.

Consistency will come with time, one way or another.

I'm bullish on Tyler Johnson moving forward.

Go Bucs.

This.

He's young. His route running needs work. It doesn't always happen immediately. But "if you throw him the ball, he'll probably catch it" is a huge part of the math.

I don't understand TJ hate. Nobody is saying he's Godwin, beyond the fact that they have similar builds.

More to the point Bootz is making...there will be TOUGH decisions this offseason. There are a lot of guys I want to lock up before Godwin, in part because TJ is a good player and we're not going to implode without him.

Frankly, judging by the way Brady has struggled without AB, I think I'd rather give him 1-8 than Godwin 1-18, when I can use the savings elsewhere.

Both int's were trying to force it to Godwin. On the first int if he hits Johnson - he's still running. He has Gardner Johnson beat and he drops off when he sees Brady locked on Godwin.

So many times Brady has Johnson so far down his list of reads I would say every target Johnson didnt catch wasnt even catchable. Cept for the last one in my first post.


Neither time should the ball have been thrown to Godwin. It had me asking Tom why?
The 2nd int Brady should have given Johnson the chance of beating his man on the other side of the field.

[mdb1958]

Hear is another great idea, lets let Darden run all the short WR plays our other WR's have run because he's shifty.

I guess it doesnt matter that the plays have been heavily studied. Result, nine crappy plays and three targets.

[mdb1958]

Offensive line: Saints (more physical) (dictated the game)
Defensive line: Saints (more physical) (dictated the game)
RB: Saints (look above)
DB's: Saints (look above)
WR's Saints proved they didnt even need them. (hardly)

QB: Saints: (look above)

I'm amazed how much escapability our defensive pressure allows (very poor)

Now we got a week off so Atl can give NO the #1 rushing defense and put us in 2nd place in our division. Or? Maybe Atl will show us World Champions how it's done.

[mdb1958]

I left out how we are a poor tackling, non hard hitting defense. (really bad)

[mdb1958]

Also make note that the Bucs kinda took my advice and got TJ more involved, should have looked for him more because of single coverage.

Bucs first punt, TJ did his job with the Bucs first catch. Problem is Lenny and the o-line failed and Tom missed a 3rd down to Godwin.

The very first optimism handed quickly to the Saints saying we can be beat. Can't even convert a 3rd and three.


Sad times.

[mdb1958]

Did they leave Mickens on the practice squad for this game?

[nybf]

Coincidence that all his catches come in the only formations he’s in? No not really

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

Because he's the #3. Even mdb can tell you #3 is not part of a 2 man set.

Are you that fucking bored looking for things to argue with everyone about that you're doubling down on this dumb shit?

[nybf]

Did they leave Mickens on the practice squad for this game?

I try to say something nice about you and then this.

[King Bootz]

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

Because he's the #3. Even mdb can tell you #3 is not part of a 2 man set.

Are you that fucking bored looking for things to argue with everyone about that you're doubling down on this dumb shit?

This isn't Madden. WRs rotate in and out much of the game. AB plays in a lot of our 2 man personnel packages. You know who else does/has this year? Tyler Johnson. And Jaelin Darden. I said Johnson has never been targeted in 2 man sets but he does play in them. Personnel groupings not based on the arbitrary numbers associated with how you rank them on the depth chart. Players actually get tired and OCs actually try to mix things up. Mike Evans and Chris Godwin are not the only WRs who play in our 2 man sets because they are the #1 and #2 WRs.

Maybe if you spent more time actually watching football and stop trying to chump up drama you'd realize this.

[King Bootz]

Uhhh no, he shouldn’t. He struggles in 1 on 1s against 4th CBs and safeties. Don’t want to see him against teams better corners.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that ALL of his catches have come in 3 or 4 WR sets?

Not true.

100% true.

[Dread]

Maybe if you spent more time actually watching football and stop trying to chump up drama you'd realize this.

I miss delt at times like this.

[King Bootz]

Maybe if you spent more time actually watching football and stop trying to chump up drama you'd realize this.

I miss delt at times like this.

I bet you do. Drama queens gotta stick together. You know where he is, go follow him.

[nybf]

Drama queens

The guy who made a post calling me out to meet them in some bitch ass no moderation forum and then didn't have shit to say when I got there calling ANYONE a drama queen is fucking rich. Now run along to the report button and cry to the mod team.

[King Bootz]

Drama queens

The guy who made a post calling me out to meet them in some bitch ass no moderation forum and then didn't have shit to say when I got there calling ANYONE a drama queen is fucking rich. Now run along to the report button and cry to the mod team.

Get back on track here. You're wrong about how WRs are used. You claim @mdb1958 would say that #3 WRs don't play in 2 man sets. Mdb says the exact opposite. He actually claims Johnson has made catches out of 2 man sets, making you incorrect that #3 WRs don't play in 2 man sets.

[Dread]

Between the historical obligation where the Bucs have to lose twice to the Saints in the regular season to win a Super Bowl and now this Manningcast curse, I'm not feeling too bad about the loss Sunday.

Divine intervention, fate, destiny... call it what you will but there was obvious some shenanigans at play Sunday they didn't want the Bucs to win b/c something better is coming

[mdb1958]

The guy who made a post calling me out to meet them in some bitch ass no moderation forum and then didn't have shit to say when I got there calling ANYONE a drama queen is fucking rich. Now run along to the report button and cry to the mod team.

Get back on track here. You're wrong about how WRs are used. You claim @mdb1958 would say that #3 WRs don't play in 2 man sets. Mdb says the exact opposite. He actually claims Johnson has made catches out of 2 man sets, making you incorrect that #3 WRs don't play in 2 man sets.

Did I say that? If he did get a pass thrown to him in a two man set, he would be the very last option.
So a run (he blocks)
RB pass (he blocks)
TE Pass
Other TE pass
WR pass
TJ



Now if that is right, what I'm saying is break tradition and make TJ the first option or 2nd option sometimes. Being last would be cool to if our O-line protected better.

I want him to be #3 sometimes and #4 sometimes and not always be the last option. If he performs and they decide to throw to him in 2WR 2TE that will work too.

LIke I said every pass he has not caught was not catchable. Watched them all and his last one was his first drop.

He is not getting 2 target a game yet for his career. 22 games 39 targets.

When teams have 5 guys or more back we have to be able to get a look at all eligible players.

[BLT]

Coincidence that all his catches come in the only formations he’s in? No not really

Why do you think a guy who’s been the #3 WR since AB has been out is never in or targeted in 2 WR sets?

Look at the Gardner-Johnson pick. He had time to go after the ball because of the half speed route Johnson ran. He was supposed to take the defender with him on the route and never got out of 1st gear.

Godwin lite he is not.

I definitely don't think he's a Godwin replacement. He's solid for a later round pick 4th WR yeah.

[King Bootz]

Get back on track here. You're wrong about how WRs are used. You claim @mdb1958 would say that #3 WRs don't play in 2 man sets. Mdb says the exact opposite. He actually claims Johnson has made catches out of 2 man sets, making you incorrect that #3 WRs don't play in 2 man sets.

Did I say that? If he did get a pass thrown to him in a two man set, he would be the very last option.
So a run (he blocks)
RB pass (he blocks)
TE Pass
Other TE pass
WR pass
TJ



Now if that is right, what I'm saying is break tradition and make TJ the first option or 2nd option sometimes. Being last would be cool to if our O-line protected better.

I want him to be #3 sometimes and #4 sometimes and not always be the last option. If he performs and they decide to throw to him in 2WR 2TE that will work too.

LIke I said every pass he has not caught was not catchable. Watched them all and his last one was his first drop.

He is not getting 2 target a game yet for his career. 22 games 39 targets.

When teams have 5 guys or more back we have to be able to get a look at all eligible players.

But you agree, he does play in 2 man sets, right? @nybf is making the case that he NEVER plays 2 man sets because he's the #3 WR right now.

[mdb1958]

Did I say that? If he did get a pass thrown to him in a two man set, he would be the very last option.
So a run (he blocks)
RB pass (he blocks)
TE Pass
Other TE pass
WR pass
TJ



Now if that is right, what I'm saying is break tradition and make TJ the first option or 2nd option sometimes. Being last would be cool to if our O-line protected better.

I want him to be #3 sometimes and #4 sometimes and not always be the last option. If he performs and they decide to throw to him in 2WR 2TE that will work too.

LIke I said every pass he has not caught was not catchable. Watched them all and his last one was his first drop.

He is not getting 2 target a game yet for his career. 22 games 39 targets.

When teams have 5 guys or more back we have to be able to get a look at all eligible players.

But you agree, he does play in 2 man sets, right? @nybf is making the case that he NEVER plays 2 man sets because he's the #3 WR right now.

It was never a secret Bruce wanted him to elevate his blocking. I don't have any pay stats that would tell me what WR's get their targets in that set.

That in itself could give a defense something to go by. You have to use what arent high percentage reads by the defense. Brady is acting like he dont know that (see acting on google). If Gronk wasnt an early out Johnson's targets would have been even lower.

[Buc2]

I hate how Bready "Cam Newton"ed the fumble... Gazing at the ball lying on the ground as if to think, "Wow! Where did that come from?"

Tbh, I’m okay with Brady doing that with fumbles. I’d rather turn the ball over in a regular season game than have our 44 year old QB at the bottom of a pile.

Yep. I basically said the same thing in the game day thread. I don't want my QB scumming for fumbled footballs. Live to fight another day.

[King Bootz]

Fans: "The league has become so soft! Might as well say you can't QBs anymore"

Also fans: "No way I want my QB going after a ball he fumbled. I'm okay with the turnover".

Don't you love it?

[Buc2]

Fans: "The league has become so soft! Might as well say you can't QBs anymore"

Also fans: "No way I want my QB going after a ball he fumbled. I'm okay with the turnover".

Don't you love it?

Oh, stfu. No one is saying that and you know it. Go back to your spat with @nybf, dipshit.

[King Bootz]

Fans: "The league has become so soft! Might as well say you can't QBs anymore"

Also fans: "No way I want my QB going after a ball he fumbled. I'm okay with the turnover".

Don't you love it?

Oh, stfu. No one is saying that and you know it. Go back to your spat with @nybf, dipshit.

I guess "live to fight another day" didn't mean what you implied it meant. But the anger told the true story, kiddo. Never change.

[Buc2]

Oh, stfu. No one is saying that and you know it. Go back to your spat with @nybf, dipshit.

I guess "live to fight another day" didn't mean what you implied it meant. But the anger told the true story, kiddo. Never change.

Fuck off, dick.

[King Bootz]

Fuck off, dick.