Thank the lord! Licht didn’t f up the 2014 pick

[CannonFire]

Not if you think Mayfield is a top 10 QB. People here whine and cry about it all the time. If that's the case, why hasn't Licht locked him in for a long term deal and just restructuring a short-term deal? Why was the 3-year deal a deal that was easy to move away from after 1 year? If he was good at evaluating QB's, he'd have realized that he had a top 10 QB and locked him in to a 5 or 6 year deal (at a very team friendly rate), not have to worry about any restructures.

Or is Mayfield not that good and Licht is right to give him a short deal that we can walk away from after this season?

Did you consider that maybe Mayfield didn't want a longer term deal locking him in when he felt that 1 year was just scratching the surface?

I think the 3 year deal worked for both parties as both liked the direction, and wanted to see where it would go while not being overly committed after a single year's performance.

The next contract will be interesting, as even mediocre QB's contracts are wild.

I find it highly unlikely that a guy who just got dumped by 3 teams in less than 12 months, would say no to a deal that locks him in to a long-term commitment. I put that possibility at about <1%.

The 3-year deal works for both parties if Licht isn't sold on Mayfield. Every GM, every coach, even every fan believes that the hardest and most important thing to find is, a franchise QB. If Licht thinks that Mayfield is a top 10 QB, then he should want to give him a long-term deal. If Mayfield thinks he's as good as he thinks he is, then he should want a long-term deal. Keep in mind, my post was in response to someone who thinks that Mayfield is a top 10 (possibly even better), QB AND thinks that Licht is only bad at evaluating "rookie" QB's. So, if Mayfield is a top 10 QB and Licht is good at evaluating veteran QB's, then why the restructure earlier this off-season. Mayfield's already here for this year and next. Mayfield was already set to make $80M over these 2 seasons. Why not just sign an extension? Mayfield would NOT turn down an extension if it came with a raise.

The next contract will be terrible because it'll be a Dak Prescott deal, essentially keeping us in the "pretender" group, just like the Cowboys.

[CannonFire]

Not if you think Mayfield is a top 10 QB. People here whine and cry about it all the time. If that's the case, why hasn't Licht locked him in for a long term deal and just restructuring a short-term deal? Why was the 3-year deal, a deal that was easy to move away from after 1 year? If he was good at evaluating QB's, he'd have realized that he had a top 10 QB and locked him in to a 5 or 6 year deal (at a very team friendly rate), not have to worry about any restructures.

Or is Mayfield not that good and Licht is right to give him a short deal that we can walk away from after this season?

Whether or not you think he's a top 10 QB or not, there's no denying he's been productive and has stabilized the QB position here. It could've been worse.

I don't disagree with this... in fact, I agree completely with this. But, it's not the point I'm making. I said Licht was bad at evaluating QB's. Graham altered it to be "rookies". My point was that if you think that's the case (meaning Licht is good at evaluating veterans), AND think that Mayfield is a top 10 QB, then Licht should know this as well and not have restructured Mayfield's deal, but extended it, a couple months ago. People who love Mayfield, shouldn't be happy that his deal only got restructured to give him a raise and not keep him here longer.

[Grahamburn]

Whether or not you think he's a top 10 QB or not, there's no denying he's been productive and has stabilized the QB position here. It could've been worse.

I don't disagree with this... in fact, I agree completely with this. But, it's not the point I'm making. I said Licht was bad at evaluating QB's. Graham altered it to be "rookies". My point was that if you think that's the case (meaning Licht is good at evaluating veterans), AND think that Mayfield is a top 10 QB, then Licht should know this as well and not have restructured Mayfield's deal, but extended it, a couple months ago. People who love Mayfield, shouldn't be happy that his deal only got restructured to give him a raise and not keep him here longer.

Then isn't just about every GM in the league bad at evaluating QB's? How many GM's have never missed on a QB? Or, is it moreso that it's the most difficult position in sports to play at a high level and at any given time there are only a handful of guys that can actually do it?

If anything Licht is incredibly gifted at evaluating QB's because he's won a Super Bowl with a veteran QB his own team didn't want anymore and has now pulled another broken QB that nobody wanted as a starter off the scrap heap and he has blossomed into a franchise QB here.

As far as an extension goes maybe neither party wanted one? There are still two years left on the deal.

[CannonFire]

I don't disagree with this... in fact, I agree completely with this. But, it's not the point I'm making. I said Licht was bad at evaluating QB's. Graham altered it to be "rookies". My point was that if you think that's the case (meaning Licht is good at evaluating veterans), AND think that Mayfield is a top 10 QB, then Licht should know this as well and not have restructured Mayfield's deal, but extended it, a couple months ago. People who love Mayfield, shouldn't be happy that his deal only got restructured to give him a raise and not keep him here longer.

Then isn't just about every GM in the league bad at evaluating QB's? How many GM's have never missed on a QB? Or, is it moreso that it's the most difficult position in sports to play at a high level and at any given time there are only a handful of guys that can actually do it?

If anything Licht is incredibly gifted at evaluating QB's because he's won a Super Bowl with a veteran QB his own team didn't want anymore and has now pulled another broken QB that nobody wanted as a starter off the scrap heap and he has blossomed into a franchise QB here.

As far as an extension goes maybe neither party wanted one? There are still two years left on the deal.

I don't think that just about every GM is bad at evaluating QB's, I think they ALL are more focused on keeping their job. They almost always would rather play it safe than trust their evaluations. The only times they really go for it, is when they have no choice. I think Andy Reid and Ozzie Newsome have proven that they are great at evaluating QB's to name a couple that don't fit that criteria.

We're told by every coach and GM, both current and former, that the most important thing in football is to find a franchise QB, right? They always say "If you see a guy who's a franchise QB, you go get him at any cost". If that's the case, how come we'll see teams draft one player, trade down, and draft a QB? Or, draft a player, then trade up and draft a QB? How come teams just sit pat and wait for a guy to get to them? How come teams will sit on a guy instead of being proactive to go get one? How come we see guys go from one team, to another, to another, and then get a long-term deal? The answer to all of those questions is: They're scared. GM's while they talk a big game about QB's, they're all scared (because they don't know what they're doing), and take the safe out. They'd rather play it safe and keep their jobs than actively target and acquire guys.

Licht isn't gifted... I gave you 8 or 9 examples of failure and your ONE example of success is him signing the greatest QB of all-time. That's not being gifted, it's him not being stupid. I never said he was dumb, just not good at evaluating QB's.

If what you say is true, that Mayfield is a top 10, then there's NO reason either wouldn't want a new deal (if Licht is a good GM - or at least good at evaluating QB's). The only reason why they wouldn't, is if both know that Mayfield isn't that good. Give me a list of examples where a GM and QB both agree on the situation (obviously we're talking about how good the player is), but they both decide to let things run into the QB's last year of his contract. Every QB who thinks their good, talks about a long term deal. Every GM who thinks their QB is good, gives that guy a long term deal. You and others are telling me that Mayfield is in the bottom 10 in QB salary. Why wouldn't he want to be paid Top 10? You told me he's top 10. Why would Licht want to wait to give him a new deal that would both pay Mayfield, keep him around, AND help the team? The objective is to find a franchise QB, right? He's got one, by your standards (Mayfield's a top 10 QB, right), so give him a new long-term deal. The only reason Mayfield wouldn't want one is because the money isn't enough. If that's the case, then Licht, by your definition (because he doesn't think Mayfield's a top 10 QB, like you do), is not good at evaluating any QB... not just rookies.

To note, the last I saw, the average tenure of a GM is 3.5 years. By that metric, I'd say yes, just about every GM is bad at evaluating QB's.

[Doctor]

Cannon, how old are you? Just curious.

[Bootz]

Cannon, how old are you? Just curious.

That would actually make sense. I'm guessing 25-26 at the oldest.

[acmillis]

Then isn't just about every GM in the league bad at evaluating QB's? How many GM's have never missed on a QB? Or, is it moreso that it's the most difficult position in sports to play at a high level and at any given time there are only a handful of guys that can actually do it?

If anything Licht is incredibly gifted at evaluating QB's because he's won a Super Bowl with a veteran QB his own team didn't want anymore and has now pulled another broken QB that nobody wanted as a starter off the scrap heap and he has blossomed into a franchise QB here.

As far as an extension goes maybe neither party wanted one? There are still two years left on the deal.

I don't think that just about every GM is bad at evaluating QB's, I think they ALL are more focused on keeping their job. They almost always would rather play it safe than trust their evaluations. The only times they really go for it, is when they have no choice. I think Andy Reid and Ozzie Newsome have proven that they are great at evaluating QB's to name a couple that don't fit that criteria.

We're told by every coach and GM, both current and former, that the most important thing in football is to find a franchise QB, right? They always say "If you see a guy who's a franchise QB, you go get him at any cost". If that's the case, how come we'll see teams draft one player, trade down, and draft a QB? Or, draft a player, then trade up and draft a QB? How come teams just sit pat and wait for a guy to get to them? How come teams will sit on a guy instead of being proactive to go get one? How come we see guys go from one team, to another, to another, and then get a long-term deal? The answer to all of those questions is: They're scared. GM's while they talk a big game about QB's, they're all scared (because they don't know what they're doing), and take the safe out. They'd rather play it safe and keep their jobs than actively target and acquire guys.

Licht isn't gifted... I gave you 8 or 9 examples of failure and your ONE example of success is him signing the greatest QB of all-time. That's not being gifted, it's him not being stupid. I never said he was dumb, just not good at evaluating QB's.

If what you say is true, that Mayfield is a top 10, then there's NO reason either wouldn't want a new deal (if Licht is a good GM - or at least good at evaluating QB's). The only reason why they wouldn't, is if both know that Mayfield isn't that good. Give me a list of examples where a GM and QB both agree on the situation (obviously we're talking about how good the player is), but they both decide to let things run into the QB's last year of his contract. Every QB who thinks their good, talks about a long term deal. Every GM who thinks their QB is good, gives that guy a long term deal. You and others are telling me that Mayfield is in the bottom 10 in QB salary. Why wouldn't he want to be paid Top 10? You told me he's top 10. Why would Licht want to wait to give him a new deal that would both pay Mayfield, keep him around, AND help the team? The objective is to find a franchise QB, right? He's got one, by your standards (Mayfield's a top 10 QB, right), so give him a new long-term deal. The only reason Mayfield wouldn't want one is because the money isn't enough. If that's the case, then Licht, by your definition (because he doesn't think Mayfield's a top 10 QB, like you do), is not good at evaluating any QB... not just rookies.

To note, the last I saw, the average tenure of a GM is 3.5 years. By that metric, I'd say yes, just about every GM is bad at evaluating QB's.

Screams in Joe Flacco

[Doctor]

Cannon, how old are you? Just curious.

That would actually make sense. I'm guessing 25-26 at the oldest.

Some of the takes do seem that kind of youthful "if you love him so much you'd marry him". But also the idea of giving some 10 years contract wreaks of something from the 90s. Its just not good business anymore. Baby GOAT Mahomes being the except, not the rule. Even the great Brady did constant 3-4 year deals. It's just how you stay agile in the NFL.

This backwards thinking of the contract being proof positive no one believes in each other is an absolutely unhinged.

[CannonFire]

I don't think that just about every GM is bad at evaluating QB's, I think they ALL are more focused on keeping their job. They almost always would rather play it safe than trust their evaluations. The only times they really go for it, is when they have no choice. I think Andy Reid and Ozzie Newsome have proven that they are great at evaluating QB's to name a couple that don't fit that criteria.

We're told by every coach and GM, both current and former, that the most important thing in football is to find a franchise QB, right? They always say "If you see a guy who's a franchise QB, you go get him at any cost". If that's the case, how come we'll see teams draft one player, trade down, and draft a QB? Or, draft a player, then trade up and draft a QB? How come teams just sit pat and wait for a guy to get to them? How come teams will sit on a guy instead of being proactive to go get one? How come we see guys go from one team, to another, to another, and then get a long-term deal? The answer to all of those questions is: They're scared. GM's while they talk a big game about QB's, they're all scared (because they don't know what they're doing), and take the safe out. They'd rather play it safe and keep their jobs than actively target and acquire guys.

Licht isn't gifted... I gave you 8 or 9 examples of failure and your ONE example of success is him signing the greatest QB of all-time. That's not being gifted, it's him not being stupid. I never said he was dumb, just not good at evaluating QB's.

If what you say is true, that Mayfield is a top 10, then there's NO reason either wouldn't want a new deal (if Licht is a good GM - or at least good at evaluating QB's). The only reason why they wouldn't, is if both know that Mayfield isn't that good. Give me a list of examples where a GM and QB both agree on the situation (obviously we're talking about how good the player is), but they both decide to let things run into the QB's last year of his contract. Every QB who thinks their good, talks about a long term deal. Every GM who thinks their QB is good, gives that guy a long term deal. You and others are telling me that Mayfield is in the bottom 10 in QB salary. Why wouldn't he want to be paid Top 10? You told me he's top 10. Why would Licht want to wait to give him a new deal that would both pay Mayfield, keep him around, AND help the team? The objective is to find a franchise QB, right? He's got one, by your standards (Mayfield's a top 10 QB, right), so give him a new long-term deal. The only reason Mayfield wouldn't want one is because the money isn't enough. If that's the case, then Licht, by your definition (because he doesn't think Mayfield's a top 10 QB, like you do), is not good at evaluating any QB... not just rookies.

To note, the last I saw, the average tenure of a GM is 3.5 years. By that metric, I'd say yes, just about every GM is bad at evaluating QB's.

Screams in Joe Flacco

Pretty much, yeah.

[CannonFire]

Cannon, how old are you? Just curious.

Just turned 50 in March.

[CannonFire]

That would actually make sense. I'm guessing 25-26 at the oldest.

Some of the takes do seem that kind of youthful "if you love him so much you'd marry him". But also the idea of giving some 10 years contract wreaks of something from the 90s. Its just not good business anymore. Baby GOAT Mahomes being the except, not the rule. Even the great Brady did constant 3-4 year deals. It's just how you stay agile in the NFL.

This backwards thinking of the contract being proof positive no one believes in each other is an absolutely unhinged.

I never said anything about 10 years, I said 7, meaning a 5 year extension (eating up the voidables and adding 3 more). Or it was instead of the original 3-year deal. Had they done that, that would be last year, these next 2 on his current deal, the 3 voidable's, and one more.

Also, that was in reference to me not having a problem with him, that people seem to think I do. I'm fine with him being here on a 7-year deal, just make it for the money he's actually worth, not what the NFL seems to be insane about the worth of QB's.

[Doctor]

I guess I just don't get the why. Why have you decided to make this Cannon's KPI for loving and believing in each other.

The Baker deal is literally perfect for all parties.

[Bootz]

@CannonFire isnt wrong about the contract. People can argue over what their opinions are. However let’s no pretend there’s no precedent set when it comes to franchise QBs and their contract. Teams don’t let younger franchise QBs sniff free agency. The obvious exception being Lamar Jackson 2 years ago, but even still there was no threat of him leaving and ultimately he got the mega extension he was looking for.

Now, Baker signing just a 3 year deal was a sign of many things. 1st, he didn’t have the equity established to warrant the trust of a long term deal. In fact, only the 1st year was fully guaranteed. OBP proceeded with caution. He also wasn’t likely to have any major suitors in the FA market, so they had no need to over pay. They got him at a fair price for what he’s capable of doing. He got a nice bump in salary without going overboard.

@__Chef__ brought up the point that maybe Baker wanted a short term deal with only 1 guaranteed year……Meh, not sure I buy that. Players and their agents generally want either long term deals with rolling guarantees OR if it’s a short time deal, as much of it guaranteed as possible. This is a violent sport where your career could be over in an instant. It’s irresponsible and bad business to ignore that fact.

@Grahamburn brought up the fact that maybe neither side wants an extension. Not sure how that would make sense from either perspective, unless you believe 1 or both parties want to move on. From the Bucs perspective, or any team for that matter, if you have your guy why would you even want to flirt with the idea of him leaving? Looking around the landscape of the NFL, Baker is the only young “franchise” QB on a 2nd contract or more with just 2 years on his deal. Next closest is Lamar Jackson with 3 years left on his deal, although unlike Baker his next 2 years are guaranteed. It helps keep the current and future price tag down because as we see, those numbers are only going to go up. From Baker’s perspective, are we to believe he’s betting on himself 3 years in advanced? Not sure I’d buy that. Players want security and commitment because they know it can all be gone in a blink.

[Phantom]

I am absolutely certain that the Bucs will extend Mayfield contract during the season. The only question is when.


He ain’t leaving

[__Chef__]

@CannonFire isnt wrong about the contract. People can argue over what their opinions are. However let’s no pretend there’s no precedent set when it comes to franchise QBs and their contract. Teams don’t let younger franchise QBs sniff free agency. The obvious exception being Lamar Jackson 2 years ago, but even still there was no threat of him leaving and ultimately he got the mega extension he was looking for.

Now, Baker signing just a 3 year deal was a sign of many things. 1st, he didn’t have the equity established to warrant the trust of a long term deal. In fact, only the 1st year was fully guaranteed. OBP proceeded with caution. He also wasn’t likely to have any major suitors in the FA market, so they had no need to over pay. They got him at a fair price for what he’s capable of doing. He got a nice bump in salary without going overboard.

@__Chef__ brought up the point that maybe Baker wanted a short term deal with only 1 guaranteed year……Meh, not sure I buy that. Players and their agents generally want either long term deals with rolling guarantees OR if it’s a short time deal, as much of it guaranteed as possible. This is a violent sport where your career could be over in an instant. It’s irresponsible and bad business to ignore that fact.

@Grahamburn brought up the fact that maybe neither side wants an extension. Not sure how that would make sense from either perspective, unless you believe 1 or both parties want to move on. From the Bucs perspective, or any team for that matter, if you have your guy why would you even want to flirt with the idea of him leaving? Looking around the landscape of the NFL, Baker is the only young “franchise” QB on a 2nd contract or more with just 2 years on his deal. Next closest is Lamar Jackson with 3 years left on his deal, although unlike Baker his next 2 years are guaranteed. It helps keep the current and future price tag down because as we see, those numbers are only going to go up. From Baker’s perspective, are we to believe he’s betting on himself 3 years in advanced? Not sure I’d buy that. Players want security and commitment because they know it can all be gone in a blink.

I completely get this mindset about players (and agents) wanting long-term fully guaranteed contracts for safety concerns.

Now, having watched Baker play here for the last 2 years ... do you think that thought is anywhere in his mind? Dude plays with reckless abandon all the time. To the point where the coaching staff had to sit him down this offseason to tell him to tone it down, and only do that when absolutely necessary.

No, I do not believe Baker negotiated that contract with those thoughts in mind. He thought (rightly) "I can play better than I did last year, and I don't want to be locked into a long-term deal based on an okay performance".

On the other hand, OBP said, "I don't know exactly what we have here, but we like what we've seen so far. Let's see where it goes." A 1 year contract after he already signed a 1 year "prove it" deal would be insulting, and he'd have gone somewhere else. 2 year, somewhat less insulting, but again, not exactly saying you're our guy. 3 years is a good length of time for both sides to show a level of commitment, with wiggle room for both.

Now, with hindsight, we can all look back and question it. But both sides had reason to be cautious in not wanting to overcommit based on a very small sample size.

[Grahamburn]

I think both sides likely want an extension after the upcoming season but there’s no rush to do it with two years left on the deal.

[Bootz]

@CannonFire isnt wrong about the contract. People can argue over what their opinions are. However let’s no pretend there’s no precedent set when it comes to franchise QBs and their contract. Teams don’t let younger franchise QBs sniff free agency. The obvious exception being Lamar Jackson 2 years ago, but even still there was no threat of him leaving and ultimately he got the mega extension he was looking for.

Now, Baker signing just a 3 year deal was a sign of many things. 1st, he didn’t have the equity established to warrant the trust of a long term deal. In fact, only the 1st year was fully guaranteed. OBP proceeded with caution. He also wasn’t likely to have any major suitors in the FA market, so they had no need to over pay. They got him at a fair price for what he’s capable of doing. He got a nice bump in salary without going overboard.

@__Chef__ brought up the point that maybe Baker wanted a short term deal with only 1 guaranteed year……Meh, not sure I buy that. Players and their agents generally want either long term deals with rolling guarantees OR if it’s a short time deal, as much of it guaranteed as possible. This is a violent sport where your career could be over in an instant. It’s irresponsible and bad business to ignore that fact.

@Grahamburn brought up the fact that maybe neither side wants an extension. Not sure how that would make sense from either perspective, unless you believe 1 or both parties want to move on. From the Bucs perspective, or any team for that matter, if you have your guy why would you even want to flirt with the idea of him leaving? Looking around the landscape of the NFL, Baker is the only young “franchise” QB on a 2nd contract or more with just 2 years on his deal. Next closest is Lamar Jackson with 3 years left on his deal, although unlike Baker his next 2 years are guaranteed. It helps keep the current and future price tag down because as we see, those numbers are only going to go up. From Baker’s perspective, are we to believe he’s betting on himself 3 years in advanced? Not sure I’d buy that. Players want security and commitment because they know it can all be gone in a blink.

I completely get this mindset about players (and agents) wanting long-term fully guaranteed contracts for safety concerns.

Now, having watched Baker play here for the last 2 years ... do you think that thought is anywhere in his mind? Dude plays with reckless abandon all the time. To the point where the coaching staff had to sit him down this offseason to tell him to tone it down, and only do that when absolutely necessary.

No, I do not believe Baker negotiated that contract with those thoughts in mind. He thought (rightly) "I can play better than I did last year, and I don't want to be locked into a long-term deal based on an okay performance".

On the other hand, OBP said, "I don't know exactly what we have here, but we like what we've seen so far. Let's see where it goes." A 1 year contract after he already signed a 1 year "prove it" deal would be insulting, and he'd have gone somewhere else. 2 year, somewhat less insulting, but again, not exactly saying you're our guy. 3 years is a good length of time for both sides to show a level of commitment, with wiggle room for both.

Now, with hindsight, we can all look back and question it. But both sides had reason to be cautious in not wanting to overcommit based on a very small sample size.

Never said anything about FULLY guaranteed deals. That isn't happening.

You, more than anyone else, seems to understand where @CannonFire is coming from as you've basically reinforced the points he's made. The trust simply isn't there. Actions do speak louder than words. You don't sign top 10 franchise QBs in their 20s to short term deals if you truly believe in them. As much as @Grahamburn wants to believe that the Bucs and Baker are both somehow rogue entities that operate on a different plain than the rest of the league and agents, they aren't. The Bucs are treating Baker exactly like what he is and Baker knows what he is. Neither side knows if this will work out long term. That's all Cannon is saying.

[Bootz]

I think both sides likely want an extension after the upcoming season but there’s no rush to do it with two years left on the deal.

Its not about the rush to get it done. It's about using every economic advantage you have at your disposal. The longer you wait, it's only going to get more expensive. Forget that 2026 year. Baker isn't playing on a 1 year contract. Again, you act as if the Bucs and Baker both dont operate in the same NFL as every other team and player.

The real reason its not getting done now, again, is because the Bucs aren't 100% sure of what they have and Baker can't command the contract others are getting. You may ignore everything hes done prior to 2023. But OBP does not and they shouldn't.

[Central_Buc]

The only short term possibility of a wrench thrown in Baker's future here would be Michael Pratt going out there doing his best Brock Purdy impersonation or better.

[Babeinbucland]

Are people trying to rewrite history now? That 2014 team was supposed to be bad. We made Josh McCown of all people the starting QB. That team was a because of Schiano. Licht, Lovie, Glazers, they all knew what it was.

FIFY

[Babeinbucland]

Get your head out of your hindsight. Every single GM would've taken Winston. Would've been a fireable offense not to.

Ummm no. Many on this board wanted Mariota. I was not one of them. I kept saying he was fragile and would not last as a QB because of it. I was correct. I don’t know enough about college players to predict regularly but this one there was no doubt for me.

But had we taken him it would not have been a fireable offense as many throughout the sports world and on this board, thought we were nuts for taking JW.

[Babeinbucland]

I am absolutely certain that the Bucs will extend Mayfield contract during the season. The only question is when.


He ain’t leaving

And if he falls out the first six games, it will happen sooner rather than later

[Doctor]

Get your head out of your hindsight. Every single GM would've taken Winston. Would've been a fireable offense not to.

Ummm no. Many on this board wanted Mariota. I was not one of them. I kept saying he was fragile and would not last as a QB because of it. I was correct. I don’t know enough about college players to predict regularly but this one there was no doubt for me.

But had we taken him it would not have been a fireable offense as many throughout the sports world and on this board, thought we were nuts for taking JW.

Congrats, you're in the 5% that thought themselves smarter than everyone else and were trying as wrong. 95% were for the QB whose last game was his only lost, who was a national champion, and won the hiesman and every other possible award.

[__Chef__]

Ummm no. Many on this board wanted Mariota. I was not one of them. I kept saying he was fragile and would not last as a QB because of it. I was correct. I don’t know enough about college players to predict regularly but this one there was no doubt for me.

But had we taken him it would not have been a fireable offense as many throughout the sports world and on this board, thought we were nuts for taking JW.

Congrats, you're in the 5% that thought themselves smarter than everyone else and were trying as wrong. 95% were for the QB whose last game was his only lost, who was a national champion, and won the hiesman and every other possible award.

I wanted neither. I wanted trade back and use those extra picks to load up the team.

[Grahamburn]

I think both sides likely want an extension after the upcoming season but there’s no rush to do it with two years left on the deal.

Its not about the rush to get it done. It's about using every economic advantage you have at your disposal. The longer you wait, it's only going to get more expensive. Forget that 2026 year. Baker isn't playing on a 1 year contract. Again, you act as if the Bucs and Baker both dont operate in the same NFL as every other team and player.

The real reason its not getting done now, again, is because the Bucs aren't 100% sure of what they have and Baker can't command the contract others are getting. You may ignore everything hes done prior to 2023. But OBP does not and they shouldn't.

Isn’t that why Baker restructured after this year? For the economic advantage.

All team/player relationships typically work this way. Especially at QB and especially when you know the QB isn’t going anywhere. Deals aren’t typically done two years out and guys don’t typically play the last year of the deal.

He already signed the “prove it again” contract after 2023. He proved it. I think Baker and OBP certainly see eye to eye on that, but there’s no reason to force anything. He’s under contract.

[CannonFire]

Congrats, you're in the 5% that thought themselves smarter than everyone else and were trying as wrong. 95% were for the QB whose last game was his only lost, who was a national champion, and won the hiesman and every other possible award.

I wanted neither. I wanted trade back and use those extra picks to load up the team.

Ditto

[Central_Buc]

Causing me to remember that opening day vs Mariota at home. Yikes.

[Doctor]

So a good GM would've taken Allen, passed on Winston, and not even looked at Manziel.

Can you breathe through all that hindsight?

[Bootz]

Its not about the rush to get it done. It's about using every economic advantage you have at your disposal. The longer you wait, it's only going to get more expensive. Forget that 2026 year. Baker isn't playing on a 1 year contract. Again, you act as if the Bucs and Baker both dont operate in the same NFL as every other team and player.

The real reason its not getting done now, again, is because the Bucs aren't 100% sure of what they have and Baker can't command the contract others are getting. You may ignore everything hes done prior to 2023. But OBP does not and they shouldn't.

Isn’t that why Baker restructured after this year? For the economic advantage.

All team/player relationships typically work this way. Especially at QB and especially when you know the QB isn’t going anywhere. Deals aren’t typically done two years out and guys don’t typically play the last year of the deal.

He already signed the “prove it again” contract after 2023. He proved it. I think Baker and OBP certainly see eye to eye on that, but there’s no reason to force anything. He’s under contract.

You negate that economic advantage by pushing the interest into the future. More savvy approach would've been to extend the deal, lower the price tag today and for future years.

"Deals aren't typically done 2 years out". For true franchise QBs they are. Josh Allen had 4 years and $130mil left on his contract. Buffalo signed him to a brand new $330mil deal over 6 seasons. KC is constantly adding guaranteed money to Mahomes deal. That's how things are done when it comes to franchise QBs.

We know he's under contract. Players are usually under contract when their teams extend them. You have allowed yourself to believe that Licht's approach is somehow a norm when it isn't. The earlier you get things done the, the better because you save millions. Again, it's not forcing anything. It's navigating the business side of things correctly. If you dont understand that, just say so.

[Bootz]

So a good GM would've taken Allen, passed on Winston, and not even looked at Manziel.

Can you breathe through all that hindsight?

QB should've been strongly considered after 2017. OBP wanted Winston to work out so badly they ignored a ton of on field and off field issues with him. There was no real progress whatsoever.

The 2018 draft had numerous options. Allen was right there. Also Josh Rosen and of course Lamar Jackson. But Licht and OBP were afraid of what they didn't know so they stayed the course.

[Buc2]

Congrats, you're in the 5% that thought themselves smarter than everyone else and were trying as wrong. 95% were for the QB whose last game was his only lost, who was a national champion, and won the hiesman and every other possible award.

I wanted neither. I wanted trade back and use those extra picks to load up the team.

Yes! Me, you, and @MJW. A couple others as well. Oh well. Things worked out in the end regardless.

[Doctor]

Yeah, those are mechanism for managing unwieldy rolling guarantees of high risk, crippling contacts. We don't need those. We have a fantastically friendly deal in place.

Again, I don't get the gripe here. We're mad we aren't paying Baker an abusive contract?

[Babeinbucland]

Ummm no. Many on this board wanted Mariota. I was not one of them. I kept saying he was fragile and would not last as a QB because of it. I was correct. I don’t know enough about college players to predict regularly but this one there was no doubt for me.

But had we taken him it would not have been a fireable offense as many throughout the sports world and on this board, thought we were nuts for taking JW.

Congrats, you're in the 5% that thought themselves smarter than everyone else and were trying as wrong. 95% were for the QB whose last game was his only lost, who was a national champion, and won the hiesman and every other possible award.

I don’t think you understood my post. But just in case you did - remind me how did Mariota do in the nfl (which was my correct point lol) AND name the year he didn’t miss games due to injuries.

[Grahamburn]

Yeah, those are mechanism for managing unwieldy rolling guarantees of high risk, crippling contacts. We don't need those. We have a fantastically friendly deal in place.

Again, I don't get the gripe here. We're mad we aren't paying Baker an abusive contract?

They’re saying the organization isn’t sure what they’ve got with Mayfield so they aren’t extending him early.

I disagree which somehow makes me clueless and wrong.

[Grahamburn]

And the list of guys who weren’t signed early is way longer than two.