Thank the lord! Licht didn’t f up the 2014 pick

[Phantom]

Thank the lord!!!

Can you imagine?!

Buccaneers GM Jason Licht said he was eyeing QB Johnny Manziel in the 2014 NFL Draft, but was ultimately too impressed by Mike Evans to pass him up.

“Back to Mike, my first pick, I really went into that draft wanting to draft a quarterback, so I really wanted to draft Johnny Manziel,” Licht said.

“I locked myself in my office watching quarterbacks that year and I watched, you know, I’d wake up again. Ok, I gotta watch Johnny Manziel again, so let me watch it again and everytime I was watching it, it was just Mike would just make these spectacular catches… it just became apparent that Mike was the guy that we wanted.”

The Buccaneers selected Evans 7th overall, while Manziel went 22nd to the Browns.

[Snake]

Good insight. The midget running around bombing it downfield was getting saved by future Hall of Famer.

[acmillis]

Ehhh..Manziel probably gets two seasons to prove he's useless on the field, bypassing us picking JW in 2015 and setting us up to draft Goff or Wentz in 2016, or if we give Manziel three seasons, we may have drafted Trubisky, Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, or, knowing Licht, Harrison Butker in the first.

[Bootz]

Unfortunately, his issues extended well beyond the football field. Mental health disorde4s, depression, I believe he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder as well. Then you had the suicide attempt, domestic violence, drug problems, police run ins. Football isn't as important when you're dealing with real life problems.

Hopefully he's in a better place personally.

[Cheb]

Even if you take out Manziel's personal demons, which were manyfold; he wasn't a great football player. Dynamic in college, absolutely. But he would bail on the play and run out of clean pockets ALL THE TIME. There are certain players who cannot play within structure without feeling that structure choke them, and Manziel was one of those. And while those scrambles and improvisations can look good when you are juking future insurance salesmen, unless you name is Vick or Lamar, you probably aren't going to be doing that in the men's league with any degree of regularity. Manziel was just baaarely athletic enough to pull that off in college, and couldn't do the same as a professional.

I am glad that Licht saw the light and instead drafted the greatest offensive Buc of all-time, bar none.

[__Chef__]

Unfortunately, his issues extended well beyond the football field. Mental health disorde4s, depression, I believe he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder as well. Then you had the suicide attempt, domestic violence, drug problems, police run ins. Football isn't as important when you're dealing with real life problems.

Hopefully he's in a better place personally.

To be fair though, getting drafted by the Browns has to be one of the most depressing outcomes any draftee could face, only surpassed by showing up, and living with that reality everyday.

It's a miracle Baker was able to shake it, but it almost did him in too.

[Doctor]

Ehhh..Manziel probably gets two seasons to prove he's useless on the field, bypassing us picking JW in 2015 and setting us up to draft Goff or Wentz in 2016, or if we give Manziel three seasons, we may have drafted Trubisky, Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, or, knowing Licht, Harrison Butker in the first.

Oh how the dominoes fall.

[Doctor]

Unfortunately, his issues extended well beyond the football field. Mental health disorde4s, depression, I believe he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder as well. Then you had the suicide attempt, domestic violence, drug problems, police run ins. Football isn't as important when you're dealing with real life problems.

Hopefully he's in a better place personally.

To be fair though, getting drafted by the Browns has to be one of the most depressing outcomes any draftee could face, only surpassed by showing up, and living with that reality everyday.

It's a miracle Baker was able to shake it, but it almost did him in too.

By his own words he played the game for fun, like a kid in the back yard running out of clean pockets to make plays.

Once it became a job, once the fun cost you and people livelihoods with real stakes, it wasn't for him.

[Terry Tate]

Even if you take out Manziel's personal demons, which were manyfold; he wasn't a great football player. Dynamic in college, absolutely. But he would bail on the play and run out of clean pockets ALL THE TIME. There are certain players who cannot play within structure without feeling that structure choke them, and Manziel was one of those. And while those scrambles and improvisations can look good when you are juking future insurance salesmen, unless you name is Vick or Lamar, you probably aren't going to be doing that in the men's league with any degree of regularity. Manziel was just baaarely athletic enough to pull that off in college, and couldn't do the same as a professional.

I am glad that Licht saw the light and instead drafted the greatest offensive Buc of all-time, bar none.

I didn't really care about Manziel but I watched a lot of their predraft tape. We needed a WR and I read a Steve White article that really talked up Mike Evans. He totally sold me and when I watched the film, it cemented it. Evans was the guy I coveted because it was plain as day that Manziel's numbers were a result of "Fuck it, Mike's down there somewhere" and Big Mike making it work.

With a little digging, I found that Steve White article.
https://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/1/55342 ... ing-report

[Buc2]

Even if you take out Manziel's personal demons, which were manyfold; he wasn't a great football player. Dynamic in college, absolutely. But he would bail on the play and run out of clean pockets ALL THE TIME. There are certain players who cannot play within structure without feeling that structure choke them, and Manziel was one of those. And while those scrambles and improvisations can look good when you are juking future insurance salesmen, unless you name is Vick or Lamar, you probably aren't going to be doing that in the men's league with any degree of regularity. Manziel was just baaarely athletic enough to pull that off in college, and couldn't do the same as a professional.

I am glad that Licht saw the light and instead drafted the greatest offensive Buc of all-time, bar none.

I didn't really care about Manziel but I watched a lot of their predraft tape. We needed a WR and I read a Steve White article that really talked up Mike Evans. He totally sold me and when I watched the film, it cemented it. Evans was the guy I coveted because it was plain as day that Manziel's numbers were a result of "Fuck it, Mike's down there somewhere" and Big Mike making it work.

With a little digging, I found that Steve White article.
https://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/1/55342 ... ing-report

Then, when you compare Evans stats to Sammy Watkins (the guy Steve White preferred), we have to be super happy Buffalo took Watkins #4 in their draft...Evans with almost twice as many yards over the same number of seasons and well over twice as many TDs. Although, I imagine at the time, many saw Watkins as the better WR prospect.
.
Watkins:

Watkins.jpg

.
Evans:

Evans.jpg

[Snake]

A great college player. Who didn’t translate to the pros. More cases than not.

[Terry Tate]

A great college player. Who didn’t translate to the pros. More cases than not.

I think he got hurt a lot early on.

[CannonFire]

Licht has proven over 10 years, he doesn't know anything about evaluating QB's. I have no doubt that Licht wanted to take Manziel, but was trumped by Lovie saying Hell-to-the-focking-NO! I would bet a year's salary against "Licht coming to the realization that Evans was the pick over Manziel". It was definitely someone else saying "We are NOT taking him".

[Bootz]

Drafted 2 QBs in 12 drafts...On a team that has had a need for QBs. He's gotten lucky in FA since 2020.

[Doctor]

Both of those are... interestingly negative POVs to take opt into taking. But to each their own.

[Bootz]

Both of those are... interestingly negative POVs to take opt into taking. But to each their own.

So the same as the results for QBs Licht has drafted..Negative.

[Doctor]

Sure pal.

[__Chef__]

... trumped by Lovie saying Hell-to-the-focking-NO! ...

Only to be trumped further by fielding a team so atrocious as to find itself at the top of the draft again the following year, and taking Winston ...

[Bootz]

Are people trying to rewrite history now? That 2014 team was supposed to be bad. We made Josh McCown of all people the starting QB. That team was a mess after Schiano. Licht, Lovie, Glazers, they all knew what it was.

[__Chef__]

Are people trying to rewrite history now? That 2014 team was supposed to be bad. We made Josh McCown of all people the starting QB. That team was a mess after Schiano. Licht, Lovie, Glazers, they all knew what it was.

I think the idea was the team would be improved after hiring Smith ... not getting embarrassed on a regular basis. Anyway, I'm just glad they recognized the need for improvement, and lured the Kangol out of retirement, who lured the Goat, who lured Gronk, AB, and Lenny for the Ring.

[Bootz]

Are people trying to rewrite history now? That 2014 team was supposed to be bad. We made Josh McCown of all people the starting QB. That team was a mess after Schiano. Licht, Lovie, Glazers, they all knew what it was.

I think the idea was the team would be improved after hiring Smith ... not getting embarrassed on a regular basis. Anyway, I'm just glad they recognized the need for improvement, and lured the Kangol out of retirement, who lured the Goat, who lured Gronk, AB, and Lenny for the Ring.

Please. That season was doomed from the start. 1st there was the Jeff Tedford saga where he got sick and we had to thrust Marcus Arroyo in as OC with no help or input from Tedford. As I mentioned previously, McCown was our starting QB. That flash in the pan 5 game performance he had in 2013 with the Bears proved to be as such and we benched him for Glennon, who wasn't any good himself. Couple that with what's arguably Lichts worst FA class consisting of Anthony Collins, Alteraun Verner, Clint McDonald and Michael Johnson, that season was doomed from the start.

No chance in hell were we competing with Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton. But ultimately I'm glad we changed course, even though it took 6 years and 3 HCs.

[__Chef__]

I think the idea was the team would be improved after hiring Smith ... not getting embarrassed on a regular basis. Anyway, I'm just glad they recognized the need for improvement, and lured the Kangol out of retirement, who lured the Goat, who lured Gronk, AB, and Lenny for the Ring.

Please. That season was doomed from the start. 1st there was the Jeff Tedford saga where he got sick and we had to thrust Marcus Arroyo in as OC with no help or input from Tedford. As I mentioned previously, McCown was our starting QB. That flash in the pan 5 game performance he had in 2013 with the Bears proved to be as such and we benched him for Glennon, who wasn't any good himself. Couple that with what's arguably Lichts worst FA class consisting of Anthony Collins, Alteraun Verner, Clint McDonald and Michael Johnson, that season was doomed from the start.

No chance in hell were we competing with Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton. But ultimately I'm glad we changed course, even though it took 6 years and 3 HCs.

So was this a case of the HC getting a raw deal in your opinion? Smith was actually a great coach who put together a great coaching staff, it was the players fault they won fewer games than when Schiano was the HC? Why did Smith only get 3 wins as the Texans HC?

[Terry Tate]

I think the idea was the team would be improved after hiring Smith ... not getting embarrassed on a regular basis. Anyway, I'm just glad they recognized the need for improvement, and lured the Kangol out of retirement, who lured the Goat, who lured Gronk, AB, and Lenny for the Ring.

Please. That season was doomed from the start. 1st there was the Jeff Tedford saga where he got sick and we had to thrust Marcus Arroyo in as OC with no help or input from Tedford. As I mentioned previously, McCown was our starting QB. That flash in the pan 5 game performance he had in 2013 with the Bears proved to be as such and we benched him for Glennon, who wasn't any good himself. Couple that with what's arguably Lichts worst FA class consisting of Anthony Collins, Alteraun Verner, Clint McDonald and Michael Johnson, that season was doomed from the start.

No chance in hell were we competing with Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton. But ultimately I'm glad we changed course, even though it took 6 years and 3 HCs.

Jeff Tedford, Mike Evans and ASJ were the only things I was excited about and two out of three turned into abject disasters. Otherwise, I was very meh about that season. I had no faith in Lovie Smith, our QB situation was a mess and the first thing Lovie did was run Darrelle Revis out of town. The man tried to bring back the T2 as a primary defense and gave up fairly Prime Revis in favor of Alteraun "I'm still not sure who this guy is Verner.

I need to go sit down

[Bootz]

Please. That season was doomed from the start. 1st there was the Jeff Tedford saga where he got sick and we had to thrust Marcus Arroyo in as OC with no help or input from Tedford. As I mentioned previously, McCown was our starting QB. That flash in the pan 5 game performance he had in 2013 with the Bears proved to be as such and we benched him for Glennon, who wasn't any good himself. Couple that with what's arguably Lichts worst FA class consisting of Anthony Collins, Alteraun Verner, Clint McDonald and Michael Johnson, that season was doomed from the start.

No chance in hell were we competing with Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton. But ultimately I'm glad we changed course, even though it took 6 years and 3 HCs.

So was this a case of the HC getting a raw deal in your opinion? Smith was actually a great coach who put together a great coaching staff, it was the players fault they won fewer games than when Schiano was the HC? Why did Smith only get 3 wins as the Texans HC?

I don't think you remember what went down that year. Tedford was OC and then left the team the week before the 4th PS game. Arroyo was thrust into the OC slot overnight in his 1st year coaching NFL football. If anyone got a raw deal it was him. Overall though, 2014 was a rebuild year for the Bucs and everyone knew it. That's why Licht and Smith returned for 2015.

[CannonFire]

... trumped by Lovie saying Hell-to-the-focking-NO! ...

Only to be trumped further by fielding a team so atrocious as to find itself at the top of the draft again the following year, and taking Winston ...

Agreed. Thus proving that Licht is terrible at evaluating QBs.

[Doctor]

Get your head out of your hindsight. Every single GM would've taken Winston. Would've been a fireable offense not to.

[Grahamburn]

Only to be trumped further by fielding a team so atrocious as to find itself at the top of the draft again the following year, and taking Winston ...

Agreed. Thus proving that Licht is terrible at evaluating rookie QBs.

Fixed.

[Buc2]

I think the idea was the team would be improved after hiring Smith ... not getting embarrassed on a regular basis. Anyway, I'm just glad they recognized the need for improvement, and lured the Kangol out of retirement, who lured the Goat, who lured Gronk, AB, and Lenny for the Ring.

Please. That season was doomed from the start. 1st there was the Jeff Tedford saga where he got sick and we had to thrust Marcus Arroyo in as OC with no help or input from Tedford. As I mentioned previously, McCown was our starting QB. That flash in the pan 5 game performance he had in 2013 with the Bears proved to be as such and we benched him for Glennon, who wasn't any good himself. Couple that with what's arguably Lichts worst FA class consisting of Anthony Collins, Alteraun Verner, Clint McDonald and Michael Johnson, that season was doomed from the start.

No chance in hell were we competing with Drew Brees, Matt Ryan and Cam Newton. But ultimately I'm glad we changed course, even though it took 6 years and 3 HCs.

Oh wow. I totally forgot about the Jeff Tedford fiasco. But, yeah. 2014 was a throwaway year going in. We all knew it. Well, all of us that were capable of being honest about the team that is.

[CannonFire]

Both of those are... interestingly negative POVs to take opt into taking. But to each their own.

Strike 1 - Licht admitted he wanted Manziel
Strike 2 - Could've made a move to jump up 3 spots in 2014 to take Derek Carr.
Strike 3 - Drafted Jameis Winston
Strike 4 - In 2018, didn't realize that Winston was a bust
Strike 5 - Also in 2018, thought Mayfield was the best QB in the draft (he admitted that when signing Mayfield)
Strike 6 - AGAIN in 2018, had the 7th overall pick and felt that Winston was better than Josh Allen so he traded down.
Strike 7 - ALSO, AGAIN in 2018, had the same chance as Baltimore to trade back into R1 to get Lamar Jackson. He stuck with his pick and took Ronald Jones.
Strike 8 - He thought Kyle Trask would be able to succeed Brady.
Strike 9 - People here tell me that Mayfield is a top 10 QB, if Licht was good at evaluating QB's, he'd know that Mayfield is a top 10 QB and with locking in great QB's, he should know to give him a long term deal instead of re-structuring a short term deal.

It's not a negative point of view when the facts are obvious.

[CannonFire]

So was this a case of the HC getting a raw deal in your opinion? Smith was actually a great coach who put together a great coaching staff, it was the players fault they won fewer games than when Schiano was the HC? Why did Smith only get 3 wins as the Texans HC?

I don't think you remember what went down that year. Tedford was OC and then left the team the week before the 4th PS game. Arroyo was thrust into the OC slot overnight in his 1st year coaching NFL football. If anyone got a raw deal it was him. Overall though, 2014 was a rebuild year for the Bucs and everyone knew it. That's why Licht and Smith returned for 2015.

I think they were coming back regardless. As much as "meh" GM I think Licht is and horrible of a decision it was to hire Lovie in the first place, virtually no one deserves to be fired after 1 year. I agree with you though, I think the Glazers knew that was a rebuild year. We were coming off a 4-win season and just fired the GM and HC and had no QB of note to rely on.

[Bootz]

Agreed. Thus proving that Licht is terrible at evaluating rookie QBs.

Fixed.

This.

Again, there's a reason he's drafted just 2 QBs in 12 drafts and neither one panned out. But in terms of FA, he's been extremely lucky. Tom Brady falling into his lap because he had no other option and Baker coming here for peanuts and performing well.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good and Licht has had lady luck on his side since 2020 when it comes to FA QBs.

[CannonFire]

Agreed. Thus proving that Licht is terrible at evaluating rookie QBs.

Fixed.

Not if you think Mayfield is a top 10 QB. People here whine and cry about it all the time. If that's the case, why hasn't Licht locked him in for a long term deal and just restructuring a short-term deal? Why was the 3-year deal, a deal that was easy to move away from after 1 year? If he was good at evaluating QB's, he'd have realized that he had a top 10 QB and locked him in to a 5 or 6 year deal (at a very team friendly rate), not have to worry about any restructures.

Or is Mayfield not that good and Licht is right to give him a short deal that we can walk away from after this season?

[__Chef__]

Fixed.

Not if you think Mayfield is a top 10 QB. People here whine and cry about it all the time. If that's the case, why hasn't Licht locked him in for a long term deal and just restructuring a short-term deal? Why was the 3-year deal a deal that was easy to move away from after 1 year? If he was good at evaluating QB's, he'd have realized that he had a top 10 QB and locked him in to a 5 or 6 year deal (at a very team friendly rate), not have to worry about any restructures.

Or is Mayfield not that good and Licht is right to give him a short deal that we can walk away from after this season?

Did you consider that maybe Mayfield didn't want a longer term deal locking him in when he felt that 1 year was just scratching the surface?

I think the 3 year deal worked for both parties as both liked the direction, and wanted to see where it would go while not being overly committed after a single year's performance.

The next contract will be interesting, as even mediocre QB's contracts are wild.

[Bootz]

Fixed.

Not if you think Mayfield is a top 10 QB. People here whine and cry about it all the time. If that's the case, why hasn't Licht locked him in for a long term deal and just restructuring a short-term deal? Why was the 3-year deal, a deal that was easy to move away from after 1 year? If he was good at evaluating QB's, he'd have realized that he had a top 10 QB and locked him in to a 5 or 6 year deal (at a very team friendly rate), not have to worry about any restructures.

Or is Mayfield not that good and Licht is right to give him a short deal that we can walk away from after this season?

Whether or not you think he's a top 10 QB or not, there's no denying he's been productive and has stabilized the QB position here. It could've been worse.

[__Chef__]

Both of those are... interestingly negative POVs to take opt into taking. But to each their own.

Strike 1 - Licht admitted he wanted Manziel
Strike 2 - Could've made a move to jump up 3 spots in 2014 to take Derek Carr.
Strike 3 - Drafted Jameis Winston
Strike 4 - In 2018, didn't realize that Winston was a bust
Strike 5 - Also in 2018, thought Mayfield was the best QB in the draft (he admitted that when signing Mayfield)
Strike 6 - AGAIN in 2018, had the 7th overall pick and felt that Winston was better than Josh Allen so he traded down.
Strike 7 - ALSO, AGAIN in 2018, had the same chance as Baltimore to trade back into R1 to get Lamar Jackson. He stuck with his pick and took Ronald Jones.
Strike 8 - He thought Kyle Trask would be able to succeed Brady.
Strike 9 - People here tell me that Mayfield is a top 10 QB, if Licht was good at evaluating QB's, he'd know that Mayfield is a top 10 QB and with locking in great QB's, he should know to give him a long term deal instead of re-structuring a short term deal.

It's not a negative point of view when the facts are obvious.

Good points overall, but Josh Allen wasn't JOSH ALLEN when he entered the league. It wasn't until his 3rd year when people held him in any regard as a gamechanger.

Rookie year comps:
3,725 27/14 93.7
2,074 10/12 67.9

Pretty remarkable considering this result was with the Cleveland freaking Browns who over the prior 3 years won a total of 4 games.