Bowles Defense - Make it Better

[__Chef__]

Okay listen. Sabby would thrive here. In a Todd Bowles system I bet he.....

What 'ol Sabby's been up to ...

[BucsNBills]

So essentially, the 2025 season is pointless? We're not contenders. We're not competitive. Baker Mayfield is a top 15-20 QB. Licht is a mid GM that is just settling for Good Enough. The Oline isn't that good, it was only masked by the prodigy Coen and his scheme.

Right? I mean outside of 31 plane crashes, the Bucs ain't winning the SB this year....so what the fuck are we even doing here?

[Central_Buc]

So essentially, the 2025 season is pointless? We're not contenders. We're not competitive. Baker Mayfield is a top 15-20 QB. Licht is a mid GM that is just settling for Good Enough. The Oline isn't that good, it was only masked by the prodigy Coen and his scheme.

Right? I mean outside of 31 plane crashes, the Bucs ain't winning the SB this year....so what the fuck are we even doing here?

Whats funny us we usually complain about the national media disrespect but for the first time since Brady left we are getting recognized for the good things we have and are, we've improved each year. It's only thus board that is all misery baby.

[Bootz]

So essentially, the 2025 season is pointless? We're not contenders. We're not competitive. Baker Mayfield is a top 15-20 QB. Licht is a mid GM that is just settling for Good Enough. The Oline isn't that good, it was only masked by the prodigy Coen and his scheme.

Right? I mean outside of 31 plane crashes, the Bucs ain't winning the SB this year....so what the fuck are we even doing here?

Jesus fucking Christ, cue the violin. You're such a drama queen. If you weren't you'd do us all a favor and actually abide by the bullshit here ("so what the fuck are we even doing here") and go away since it's all pointless.

You melting down because adults are having serious conversations about the team beyond "Everything is perfect and we're winning the SB" only makes you look like a fool.

[BucsNBills]

So essentially, the 2025 season is pointless? We're not contenders. We're not competitive. Baker Mayfield is a top 15-20 QB. Licht is a mid GM that is just settling for Good Enough. The Oline isn't that good, it was only masked by the prodigy Coen and his scheme.

Right? I mean outside of 31 plane crashes, the Bucs ain't winning the SB this year....so what the fuck are we even doing here?

Jesus fucking Christ, cue the violin. You're such a drama queen. If you weren't you'd do us all a favor and actually abide by the bullshit here ("so what the fuck are we even doing here") and go away since it's all pointless.

You melting down because adults are having serious conversations about the team beyond "Everything is perfect and we're winning the SB" only makes you look like a fool.

You're the one that's spent the entire offseason crashing out in every fucking thread. I'm also just repeating shit YOU said, so if that sounds like "drama queen" talk, then you're only calling yourself out.

[__Chef__]

So essentially, the 2025 season is pointless? We're not contenders. We're not competitive. Baker Mayfield is a top 15-20 QB. Licht is a mid GM that is just settling for Good Enough. The Oline isn't that good, it was only masked by the prodigy Coen and his scheme.

Right? I mean outside of 31 plane crashes, the Bucs ain't winning the SB this year....so what the fuck are we even doing here?

I didn't say that at all.

By the end of the year, I hope Bowles is rubbing it in my smug comfortable face. Dennis ends the year not on IR, but in the SB after notching 5 ints and 10 PBUs. Reddick leaves us and signs a 50 mil 2 year contract after racking up 16 sacks as comeback player of the year. The rookie corners are so good, we trade dean before the deadline and pickup a 3rd for him.

I hope all of it comes true, but it would require a change from somewhere over what this defense has been showing since Bowles got here.

[Central_Buc]

You gotta have faith in the process sometimes. If you're wrong then you're wrong, admit it and go back to the drawing board.

Seems like some just want to blow it up and hit the drawing board sooner which seems unnecessary at this time.

[mdb1958]

Compiled stats since Bowles got here paint a picture of disappointing mediocrity with a few notable standouts:

Year	Sks (r)	Int (r)	PBU	Yards (r)	Pass (r)	Points (r)
2019	47 (16)	12 (29)	95	5503 (15)	4647 (29)	449 (29)
2020	48 (8)	15 (8)	76	5234 (6)	4311 (22)	355 (6)
2021	47 (5)	17 (5)	74	5635 (13)	4347 (21)	353 (5)
2022	45 (13)	10 (13)	56	5513 (9)	3792 (11)	358 (13)
2023	48 (16)	13 (7)	64	5852 (23)	4568 (29)	325 (7)
2024	46 (16)	7 (16)	60	5810 (18)	4464 (29)	385 (16)

Top ten in sacks twice, but consistently between 45 and 48 annually, just a matter of what we're giving up in coverage to get them.

Ints and PBUs have seen a dramatic fall off.

Yards overall have been consistently mediocre, but passing yards allowed have only been near top ten once. The rest of the time, it's been the bottom 10.

Points allowed from bottom 10, to top 10, back to mediocre.

We've got who we got as far as roster is concerned. I don't think we'll see much change there.

What schematically could we change to see these numbers improve and have a legitimate shot at fielding a championship caliber defense?

I'd install my defense. In brief:

- Mostly one gap run fits with a single two-gapper to steal a gap, either at nose or strong side edge depending on the tape and call.
- Spin a safety down to get advantageous numbers on early downs to win the numbers game in the box, leaning towards Cover-3 pattern matching. Back off to Cover-2 on longer down/distance, getting eyes on the ball so we can get our hands on the ball to rally to it when the ball leaves the QBs hands and get turnovers.
- Make the conscious decision to tell my defensive lineman to play through gaps on passing downs, not within them. This will make us weaker versus the run by allowing more vertical seams, but will turn up the pass rush with the front four.

Nothing fancy. Basically what Monte Kiffin and Pete Carroll did/do.

Can we have a Ronde corner blitz, that may seal the deal.

[Barnzy]

It's going to depend mostly on the talent where there is lots of question marks. I think it's unfair to ask Bowles to magically turn water into wine through scheme. He can make them look better than what they're and hide some weakness, but is that enough to win a SB?

That SB winning defense had a ton more proven players and vets especially on the front 7. I really think this defense is still too thin at a number of positions and there's too many question marks at others relying on every positive outcome happening all at once. I know that's not what you want to hear but it might just be the reality.

Why can't we do any of these things: Sign Von Miller (12 rated pass rusher in the league last year). Maybe he is too old now and doesn't work but at least you're not only relying on just Reddick as a guy who can mimic Shaq and win the edge quickly. Za'Darius Smith I like less but he was still the 21st rated edge in pass rushing grade last season.

Sign Justin Simmons for proven vet safety depth or Julian Blackmon. Trade for a LB (Devin Lloyd. Jags would take a mid round pick as they aren't re-signing him). Push for a Ramsey or Hendrickson trade.

Licht could still be aggressive right now to sure up defensive some holes and increase winning probability. But he won't. The defensive performance this season is probably more on Licht not Bowles. If it fails it will be because Licht didn't do enough roster wise and relied on way too many outlier scenarios happening all at once.

[mdb1958]

Will those five players accept being on our practice squad?

[Pirate Life]

Since the division realignment in 2002, it's happened 19 times if you include division winners who only won 7 games. So, a not so insignificant amount of times. In 2022, there were two teams that won their divisions with 8-9 wins, us and the Jaguars.

So 10% of the time. And how many of those are winning championships? I count 1.

1 Championship, two SB appearances (Cardinals were very close to making it 2 for 2). The one championship, the Giants, also holds the distinction of being the only SB team to have been outscored by their opponents during the season. '79 Rams also went to the SB with a 9-7 record for what it's worth, giving Pittsburgh two championships against 9-7 teams.

Fun fact: A 9 win team has won a SB more recently than a 15 win team, last one to do so was the '85 Bears. 6 teams since 2002 (Vikings also did in '98) have won 15 games - two did it last season. Only half of the 15 win teams made it to the Super Bowl (3/7 if we include the '98 Vikings) with two of the teams getting blown out by their opponent (Panthers in '15 and Chiefs last season). Seems the 9 game winners have better odds of getting the championship in the current era. So, to sum up since realignment: 9 win teams getting the ring: 1 15 win teams getting it: 0.

Interestingly, since going to 17 game seasons the pace of 9 win teams making the playoffs and/or winning their division has increased with a total of 8 teams in four seasons (twice by the Bucs). There were five in the previous four seasons.

Initial goal is usually to win your division and make the playoffs, can't pursue the ultimate goal of a championship without that first step.

[__Chef__]

That SB winning defense had a ton more proven players and vets especially on the front 7.

The question is why after 5 years are we still looking for FA vets to fix the front 7? I get it on the DBs. Bowles came into the league as an undrafted DB, he then went on to coach DBs for years. I expect Bowles to be a DB mastermind and know exactly what he's looking for in a DB and how to get them playing at a consistently high level.

The front 7 he's not an expert in. Fine.

GO FIND PROVEN COACHES WHO'VE SHOWN THE ABILITY TO FIND & DEVELOP THEM.

Better yet, go find a DC so Bowles can focus on being the HC. Tell that DC to go find the best young position coaches they can find, who have a passion for the game and can get our guys playing well beyond what most thought they were capable of. Keep his old pals around as consultants or whatever.

[Doctor]

If you build it they will come eh?

Sorry, that only works in the movie. This idea of "why haven't we just manifested a super star at ___ by now?" Is for the birds.

For one, those stars some rarely and you don't often have the even the chance to draft them. Sometimes they are rare free agents, again, rich finds.

I think they've taken good swings where they've seen good opportunities in the draft and FA with Shaq, Hassan, Yaya, JTS, Hall, Braswell, Walker, etc. Maybe there is something great in the works, maybe we just got to stay patient and let it emerge.

[Buc2]

If you build it they will come eh?

Sorry, that only works in the movie. This idea of "why haven't we just manifested a super star at ___ by now?" Is for the birds.

For one, those stars some rarely and you don't often have the even the chance to draft them. Sometimes they are rare free agents, again, rich finds.

I think they've taken good swings where they've seen good opportunities in the draft and FA with Shaq, Hassan, Yaya, JTS, Hall, Braswell, Walker, etc. Maybe there is something great in the works, maybe we just got to stay patient and let it emerge.

No, no, no! Licht should find all the best players at every position and bring them aboard or he's a failure.

[Bootz]

If you build it they will come eh?

Sorry, that only works in the movie. This idea of "why haven't we just manifested a super star at ___ by now?" Is for the birds.

For one, those stars some rarely and you don't often have the even the chance to draft them. Sometimes they are rare free agents, again, rich finds.

I think they've taken good swings where they've seen good opportunities in the draft and FA with Shaq, Hassan, Yaya, JTS, Hall, Braswell, Walker, etc. Maybe there is something great in the works, maybe we just got to stay patient and let it emerge.

No, no, no! Licht should find all the best players at every position and bring them aboard or he's a failure.

If you ask some here, finding the best players at every position is exactly what he's done.

[__Chef__]

Sorry, that only works in the movie.

We just saw it work in Philly.

Pass Defense
2023: 4551 28th 35 TDs 97.6 QB Rate
2024: 3266 2nd 22TDs 82.5 QB rate

Rush Defense
2023: 4.3avg 1758 13 TDs
2024: 4.3avg 1771 9 TDs

Vic Fangio in one year changed the mindset of that defense. They were top 10 both years against the run, but against the pass they went from bottom 5 to top 5 in one year.

Heck we saw the same drastic 1 year turnaround here on offense.

Yes, coaching can have a MAJOR impact on team performance.

[Doctor]

My favorite, "here's the one example that proves it can and should be done here".... At least it's not long Stroud and the savior zealots....

Defense scheme and coaching was absolutely big for them yes, but personnel fell perfectly too. Everyone said it for them since their draft.

I think you're going to see a huge change here. Even without home run personnel changes.

[Snake]

What huge changes here?

[BucsNBills]

We've made coaching changes and added a bunch of talent to the defense. Who knows what kind of turnaround we'll have, but I have no doubt that we'll be noticeably better on the defensive side of the ball.

[__Chef__]

My favorite, "here's the one example that proves it can and should be done here".... At least it's not long Stroud and the savior zealots....

Defense scheme and coaching was absolutely big for them yes, but personnel fell perfectly too. Everyone said it for them since their draft.

I think you're going to see a huge change here. Even without home run personnel changes.

I gave you two.

The 2nd was our offense's meteoric rise under Coen.

Bowles has proven to be capable of picking and molding great offensive coaches where he isn't attached emotionally.
Now he needs to do the same on the defensive side of the ball. HC Bowles should fire DC Bowles because DC Bowles' coaching staff is killing HC Bowles chances at making a championship run.

[BucsNBills]

Larry Foote moved to OLB coach
Mike Caldwell hired as ILB coach
Charlie Strong hired as Dline coach
Zach Beistline hired to assist with clock management and situational decisions
The secondary now share a meeting room instead of corners and safeties each having their own.
Signed Hassan Reddick
Signed Vildor and Walker for depth
Drafted Morrison
Drafted Parrish
Drafted Walker
Drafted Elijah Roberts
Added multiple promising UDFAs
AWJ and SD will both be healthy entering the season, raising both our floor and ceiling on defense.
Tykee is moving to safety so he'll be on the field much more with AWJ and back to playing his natural position
Bowles also indicated that he had a breakthrough on some defensive issues, so who knows what that will yield.

The point of all that is to hopefully put to bed the idea that we haven't made a genuine effort to address the defense, because we absolutely have.

Could we have done more? I mean, sure. I'd certainly be more comfortable if we add another ILB. Maybe we bring in Pratt or make a move down the road. But even if we do, that doesn't change the fact that our defense will be impacted more by the above long list of additions and changes we made vs adding another linebacker.

I mean nothing is guaranteed, but I'm really liking the talent we have on defense now.

[__Chef__]

Larry Foote moved to OLB coach
Mike Caldwell hired as ILB coach
Charlie Strong hired as Dline coach
Zach Beistline hired to assist with clock management and situational decisions
The secondary now share a meeting room instead of corners and safeties each having their own.
Signed Hassan Reddick
Signed Vildor and Walker for depth
Drafted Morrison
Drafted Parrish
Drafted Walker
Drafted Elijah Roberts
Added multiple promising UDFAs
AWJ and SD will both be healthy entering the season, raising both our floor and ceiling on defense.
Tykee is moving to safety so he'll be on the field much more with AWJ and back to playing his natural position
Bowles also indicated that he had a breakthrough on some defensive issues, so who knows what that will yield.

The point of all that is to hopefully put to bed the idea that we haven't made a genuine effort to address the defense, because we absolutely have.

Could we have done more? I mean, sure. I'd certainly be more comfortable if we add another ILB. Maybe we bring in Pratt or make a move down the road. But even if we do, that doesn't change the fact that our defense will be impacted more by the above long list of additions and changes we made vs adding another linebacker.

I mean nothing is guaranteed, but I'm really liking the talent we have on defense now.

How many of these coaching moves were proactive vs reactive?

[Central_Buc]

Larry Foote moved to OLB coach
Mike Caldwell hired as ILB coach
Charlie Strong hired as Dline coach
Zach Beistline hired to assist with clock management and situational decisions
The secondary now share a meeting room instead of corners and safeties each having their own.
Signed Hassan Reddick
Signed Vildor and Walker for depth
Drafted Morrison
Drafted Parrish
Drafted Walker
Drafted Elijah Roberts
Added multiple promising UDFAs
AWJ and SD will both be healthy entering the season, raising both our floor and ceiling on defense.
Tykee is moving to safety so he'll be on the field much more with AWJ and back to playing his natural position
Bowles also indicated that he had a breakthrough on some defensive issues, so who knows what that will yield.

The point of all that is to hopefully put to bed the idea that we haven't made a genuine effort to address the defense, because we absolutely have.

Could we have done more? I mean, sure. I'd certainly be more comfortable if we add another ILB. Maybe we bring in Pratt or make a move down the road. But even if we do, that doesn't change the fact that our defense will be impacted more by the above long list of additions and changes we made vs adding another linebacker.

I mean nothing is guaranteed, but I'm really liking the talent we have on defense now.

How many of these coaching moves were proactive vs reactive?

I would think a mix of both. In some ways I don't envy Bowles or Licht in that regard because in NFL life is pretty stressful going through changes and then trying to get the right people.

But honestly and on the other hand as a GM or coach you absolutely have to be active and cut throat to get what you need or want.

[mdb1958]

I should be able to tell early on if Reddick is here because he wants to win a Superbowl. It just may be infectious and spread around our defense. He hasnt had that many playoff experiences and he knows the clock is ticking.

[mdb1958]

What happened with Bryce Hall in 2021 (16 PD's) to 2022 5 games (zero stats)?

[mdb1958]

Deion Jones also hasnt had a real taste of playoffs since his rookie year in 2016 and then 2017, he is another that could provide something in key situations. He had 5 defensive TD's in his first five years.

[mdb1958]

Desmond Watson will be 23 on June 15th.

[Bootz]

What happened with Bryce Hall in 2021 (16 PD's) to 2022 5 games (zero stats)?

2 things.

1st, in 2022 the Jets signed DJ Reed & drafted Sauce Gardner. Hall, who wasn't very good despite 16 PDs was moved to the bench. If the guys in front of you don't get hurt at corner, it's rare their backups get on the field. Hall had 15 defensive snaps in 5 games in 2022.

2nd thing, he was a healthy scratch for most of the year. He's not very good to begin with so all you'd want him for is depth and ST if there are injuries.

[mdb1958]

What happened with Bryce Hall in 2021 (16 PD's) to 2022 5 games (zero stats)?

2 things.

1st, in 2022 the Jets signed DJ Reed & drafted Sauce Gardner. Hall, who wasn't very good despite 16 PDs was moved to the bench. If the guys in front of you don't get hurt at corner, it's rare their backups get on the field. Hall had 15 defensive snaps in 5 games in 2022.

2nd thing, he was a healthy scratch for most of the year. He's not very good to begin with so all you'd want him for is depth and ST if there are injuries.

Yeah I see where they went from 4 wins in 2021 to 7 in 2022, so I'm guessing they just decided to go in a different direction.
It also looks like the Jets had a safety problem in 2021 and Hall was the beneficiary. I'd like to think the Jets were not the place to go to find out out good you are.

Just searching for better back up snaps that could be productive and if you miss camp, injury is probably the only chance you got to get on the field. I guess a team/ring friendly deal might could come along with a mass amount of experience.

[mdb1958]

Hall had 5 of the 122 missed tackles in 2021, in 2022 it improved to 68.

That looks like a lack of trying.

[Pirate Life]

Hassan Reddick at OTAs today. Him, Diaby, Vea and Kancey seen working with new DL coach Charlie Strong.

[Central_Buc]

Just got the notification that TJ Watt and Hendrickson are holding out of mini camp for new deals.

I expect the Steelers to sign him but here it is...if the Steelers fail here, I'd rather go after him over Hendrickson

[Bootz]

Just got the notification that TJ Watt and Hendrickson are holding out of mini camp for new deals.

I expect the Steelers to sign him but here it is...if the Steelers fail here, I'd rather go after him over Hendrickson

Licht doesn't need to do that. He's already built the best EDGE rusher room in the league. Plus, who we getting rid of to accommodate 1 of them?

[Buc2]

Just got the notification that TJ Watt and Hendrickson are holding out of mini camp for new deals.

I expect the Steelers to sign him but here it is...if the Steelers fail here, I'd rather go after him over Hendrickson

Licht doesn't need to do that. He's already built the best EDGE rusher room in the league. Plus, who we getting rid of to accommodate 1 of them?

/s

[Central_Buc]

Hendrickson is a legit all in move though and a true possibility.

Sounds like the Bengals want a 1st and Trey wants $35M+ a year and a long term deal. He’s 30 when the season starts.

Worth it?

You posted this earlier in the thread. I was listening to a Schefter podcast regarding the recent news both are holding out. I might have underrated Hendrickson, Basically both are 1 and 2 the best in the league right now.

Schefter also pointed out that Hendrickson is out of the 2 most likely to get moved because his relationship with the Bengals is more strained than Watt and the Steelers.

But you also have that corner floating from GB that @Barnzy pointed out. Which I think would be a great idea as well.