The Falcons QB Controversy

[Grahamburn]

I love how cool and breezy fans whose jobs and careers aren't on the line just calmly declare they'll find a QB after Kirk so getting one now is dumb.

I was pissed when we did it with the 64th pick. I can’t imagine having done it with the 8th.

[BucsNBills]

The Falcons are like parents who took their kids college fund and bet it all on black at the roulette table instead of paying for school and helping their child.

It literally doesn't matter if they win the gamble, it was a retarded decision and will never not be a retarded decision.

This just adds to the legend of the Falcons who are quite clearly the GOATS when it comes to snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Doctor]

Funny, would think this would be seen as the investing in your future part of that metaphor.

[Selmon Rules]

If Penix wins them a Super Bowl, all will be forgiven and it will be seen as them playing 4D chess while the rest of the leagues is still trying to figure out the rules of checkers.




Yes, I realize those are some long odds and that is the only way this will ever be seen as a good idea even in hindsight

[Bootz]

This was figured out a long time ago.

How old was Brett Favre when the Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers? 36

How old was Aaron Rodgers when the Packers drafted Jordan Love? 36

How old was Kirk Cousins when the Falcons drafted Michael Penix? 36.

This is not rocket science.

[13F11B]

This was figured out a long time ago.

How old was Brett Favre when the Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers? 36

How old was Aaron Rodgers when the Packers drafted Jordan Love? 36

How old was Kirk Cousins when the Falcons drafted Michael Penix? 36.

This is not rocket science.

Yes, yes... that is the reason Jimmy Garoppolo was not successful. Tom was 37 when he was drafted. To be honest I don't think the age of the current starter has any impact on the success of a 1st round draft choice. What MIGHT be a factor is that any QB drafted into a situation with an established starter that they are not expected to push is going to a stable franchise. QBs drafted in the first round and rushed into starting are more often than not going to a bad franchise.

[CannonFire]

it was obvious how things were gonna fall 1-4, in terms of players selected. maybe not order. Even months out.

Falcons should’ve just not signed Cousins and traded up a bit to acquire the 6 year college QB and started him year 1, week 1. Spent the Kirk $ elsewhere.

There’s no reason for a 6 year college player + 24 year old to sit. Especially with a good roster and a mediocre division.

Now this, is absolutely an argument I can get behind.

[CannonFire]

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/8th-ov ... -nfl-draft

History of the 8th pick. Oof.

Not really sure "Oof" is an appropriate reaction.

I think Robinson and London are doing fine. Horn and Simmons were busts, but Hock is one of the better TE's in the league. McCaffrey is the best RB (possibly player), in the league. Roquon is making $20M AAV, Conklin is one of the best tackles in the league. Beasley was "good". Over the last 10 years, there's like only 2 busts.

[CannonFire]

I love how cool and breezy fans whose jobs and careers aren't on the line just calmly declare they'll find a QB after Kirk so getting one now is dumb.

I was pissed when we did it with the 64th pick. I can’t imagine having done it with the 8th.

Outside of Gator & Buccaneer homers, that was a bad pick because no one saw Trask as a franchise QB... Penix, by most pundits, is thought of as a franchise QB, so not really the same. A similar comparison would be the Bucs taking Jordan Love in 2020 instead of Wirfs. I've brought this up a few times to a few people... no one's answered my questions. So I'll ask you...

If the Bucs took Love in 2020 instead of Wirfs, do you think we still were Super Bowl contenders in 2020 & 2021? Do you think our team, today, would be in a better place than what it is now? I'll go on record and say my answer to both, are "yes".

[Grahamburn]

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/8th-ov ... -nfl-draft

History of the 8th pick. Oof.

Not really sure "Oof" is an appropriate reaction.

I think Robinson and London are doing fine. Horn and Simmons were busts, but Hock is one of the better TE's in the league. McCaffrey is the best RB (possibly player), in the league. Roquon is making $20M AAV, Conklin is one of the best tackles in the league. Beasley was "good". Over the last 10 years, there's like only 2 busts.

Yeah. I meant like, oof, look who the types of players they could have had.

[Grahamburn]

I was pissed when we did it with the 64th pick. I can’t imagine having done it with the 8th.

Outside of Gator & Buccaneer homers, that was a bad pick because no one saw Trask as a franchise QB... Penix, by most pundits, is thought of as a franchise QB, so not really the same. A similar comparison would be the Bucs taking Jordan Love in 2020 instead of Wirfs. I've brought this up a few times to a few people... no one's answered my questions. So I'll ask you...

If the Bucs took Love in 2020 instead of Wirfs, do you think we still were Super Bowl contenders in 2020 & 2021? Do you think our team, today, would be in a better place than what it is now? I'll go on record and say my answer to both, are "yes".

I think Wirfs solidified a line that allowed Brady to operate inside the pocket with impunity. And we won a championship.

The Packers DID take Love, and they did not win another championship.

The answer to your first question should surely be no if you’re being objective. You have the historical data to bear it out.

Would I take Love over Mayfield now in a vacuum? Sure. But, things don’t work that way. We won a Super Bowl. They didn’t. And, we beat them to get it.

[Grahamburn]

Oh. Contenders? Sure. They’d be contenders in the sense that they’d have made the playoffs.

We saw what happened in 2021 when Wirfs couldn’t play though.

[CannonFire]

Not really sure "Oof" is an appropriate reaction.

I think Robinson and London are doing fine. Horn and Simmons were busts, but Hock is one of the better TE's in the league. McCaffrey is the best RB (possibly player), in the league. Roquon is making $20M AAV, Conklin is one of the best tackles in the league. Beasley was "good". Over the last 10 years, there's like only 2 busts.

Yeah. I meant like, oof, look who the types of players they could have had.

Ok, gotchya.

[CannonFire]

Oh. Contenders? Sure. They’d be contenders in the sense that they’d have made the playoffs.

We saw what happened in 2021 when Wirfs couldn’t play though.

I think it's safe to say that the Bucs would've addressed the OLine in other ways if they had plans on drafting a QB.

I also saw what happened in 2021 when we lost both Antonio Brown (to retardation), AND Chris Godwin. It's not like Wirfs was the only reason. I also think that if Jordan Love showed true promise, that when Brady retired initially, Licht and Co would've come out and championed Love as the future. They'd have made it impossible for Brady to come back (to the Bucs).

That said, I don't know that they'd have drafted Winfield Jr in R2 in 2020, so there is that.

I understand that we could've lost out on the Super Bowl, but I also think we would have a lot of potential for multiple Super Bowls in the future with a franchise QB. Right now, I believe our potential is a high first round draft slot for years to come. I think a full re-build is literally, 24 months away... if not 12.

[Doctor]

The great thing about Wirfs is that he was a homerun contributor. A great addition. So was AWJ. And Gronk and Suh and JPP and Mike Edwards. Great contributors come from everywhere.

Did this one take our first? Yes. Cool.
The leap that every first, or any first GB would've taken that wasn't Love, would've been a Wirfs level homerun because hey he too was also a first is silly. Let alone lead to a chip.

[Grahamburn]

The great thing about Wirfs is that he was a homerun contributor. A great addition. So was AWJ. And Gronk and Suh and JPP and Mike Edwards. Great contributors come from everywhere.

Did this one take our first? Yes. Cool.
The leap that every first, or any first GB would've taken that wasn't Love, would've been a Wirfs level homerun because hey he too was also a first is silly. Let alone lead to a chip.

It was a perfect example of what you should do. You sign a vet QB to a lucrative deal you make sure you support THAT guy.

[Doctor]

Baker got a mid deal and Brady got less. But yeah, you always want to support your QB.

But most importantly is having one.

[Phantom]

@Doctor I believe the Falcons selected Penix as a precaution should anything happen to Cousins, allowing him to be prepared without relying on a backup quarterback who may perform poorly.

[Doctor]

Sure. All options are now covered. But we've seen the miserable "QB to win playoffs game for their drafted teams" posts. They're awful.

This assumption that there will just be all these wonderful QB options to turn to once Kirk hangs them up is wild to me. Just wild. If you have a shot at an option you do truly believe is wonderful, I get pocketing it now while it's there.

I don't think the Bears, Vikings, or Lions were laughing all that hard facing Rodgers for a decade because the poor packers chose two carry two starters for a few years. Rivers, Brees. Etc.

Point blank I'd hate to be in a division with Penix in a ideal fit system. Which Zac, imo, is.

[Buc2]

Point blank fuck the Falcons.

[CannonFire]

Point blank fuck the Falcons.

Probably the most accurate statement ever made on this board.

[Grahamburn]

Sure. All options are now covered. But we've seen the miserable "QB to win playoffs game for their drafted teams" posts. They're awful.

This assumption that there will just be all these wonderful QB options to turn to once Kirk hangs them up is wild to me. Just wild. If you have a shot at an option you do truly believe is wonderful, I get pocketing it now while it's there.

I don't think the Bears, Vikings, or Lions were laughing all that hard facing Rodgers for a decade because the poor packers chose two carry two starters for a few years. Rivers, Brees. Etc.

Point blank I'd hate to be in a division with Penix in a ideal fit system. Which Zac, imo, is.

You're kind of all over the place. In one thread you war against the rookie QB and advocate for the "retread" QB's that have been successful. But, in here defend the decision to draft a rookie QB top 10 when that same organization paid a free agent top tier $$.

I assume it's because you like the player (Penix) more than the actual logic behind the decision? We won't really know for a few years. But, if you're trying to win right now with the QB you just signed I don't understand a decision to take a QB in the top 10 when they have glaring pass rush needs and your pick of pass rushers.

I loved it, because hey, fuck the Falcons. If Kirk is still Kirk they wasted the pick because Penix won't play for at least 3 years. If Kirk isn't right they wasted a ton of money on him and will lose games while needing to also go through Penix' growing pains.

In my opinion the Falcons lit their short term future on fire for a coin flip long term one.

[Grahamburn]

According to Raheem Morris... he believes the Falcons are in a position to win right now. I know, some of you guys are laughing, but people here think the Bucs are ready to win with Baker Mayfield.

With that, if you think your team is ready to win now, you don't expect to be in position to draft a QB for the next 3 to 4 years (based on the length of Cousins' contract). If that's how you feel, then go get your guy. I don't really know that Morris and the Falcons are wrong. Well, at least from their line of thinking... I don't really know much about Penix, but I liked things I saw of and heard from, him. He might be really good.


Let's look at it from Atlanta's perspective. Last year, their defense ranked 11th in yards allowed (18th in points allowed). With Ridder as their QB (and Heinicke), who was completely awful and made life difficult for their defense, they still managed 7 wins. People want to laugh, but it's not like we were light years better... if they beat us in ATL, we're both 8-8. That aside, they have a top tier offensive line, a star WR in the making (Drake London), a stud RB in the making (Bijan Robinson), and now a proven passer (Kirk Cousins)... that's not even counting the possibility that Kyle Pitts isn't a bust. What if he isn't? The Falcons are in position to be a 12+ win team this season. Again, some may want to laugh, but the Falcons substantially upgraded their QB situation with Cousins... don't care if people think he's a choker or not, he's still good. Where did we upgrade? All we did was re-sign players.

Kirk cousins has won more than 12+ games once in his 12 year career. Over double digits in wins just twice. He has one playoff win on his resume.

[Buc2]

Sure. All options are now covered. But we've seen the miserable "QB to win playoffs game for their drafted teams" posts. They're awful.

This assumption that there will just be all these wonderful QB options to turn to once Kirk hangs them up is wild to me. Just wild. If you have a shot at an option you do truly believe is wonderful, I get pocketing it now while it's there.

I don't think the Bears, Vikings, or Lions were laughing all that hard facing Rodgers for a decade because the poor packers chose two carry two starters for a few years. Rivers, Brees. Etc.

Point blank I'd hate to be in a division with Penix in a ideal fit system. Which Zac, imo, is.

You're kind of all over the place. In one thread you war against the rookie QB and advocate for the "retread" QB's that have been successful. But, in here defend the decision to draft a rookie QB top 10 when that same organization paid a free agent top tier $$.

I assume it's because you like the player (Penix) more than the actual logic behind the decision? We won't really know for a few years. But, if you're trying to win right now with the QB you just signed I don't understand a decision to take a QB in the top 10 when they have glaring pass rush needs and your pick of pass rushers.

I loved it, because hey, fuck the Falcons. If Kirk is still Kirk they wasted the pick because Penix won't play for at least 3 years. If Kirk isn't right they wasted a ton of money on him and will lose games while needing to also go through Penix' growing pains.

In my opinion the Falcons lit their short term future on fire for a coin flip long term one.

Logic? What logic are you assuming was made with this decision?

[CannonFire]

According to Raheem Morris... he believes the Falcons are in a position to win right now. I know, some of you guys are laughing, but people here think the Bucs are ready to win with Baker Mayfield.

With that, if you think your team is ready to win now, you don't expect to be in position to draft a QB for the next 3 to 4 years (based on the length of Cousins' contract). If that's how you feel, then go get your guy. I don't really know that Morris and the Falcons are wrong. Well, at least from their line of thinking... I don't really know much about Penix, but I liked things I saw of and heard from, him. He might be really good.


Let's look at it from Atlanta's perspective. Last year, their defense ranked 11th in yards allowed (18th in points allowed). With Ridder as their QB (and Heinicke), who was completely awful and made life difficult for their defense, they still managed 7 wins. People want to laugh, but it's not like we were light years better... if they beat us in ATL, we're both 8-8. That aside, they have a top tier offensive line, a star WR in the making (Drake London), a stud RB in the making (Bijan Robinson), and now a proven passer (Kirk Cousins)... that's not even counting the possibility that Kyle Pitts isn't a bust. What if he isn't? The Falcons are in position to be a 12+ win team this season. Again, some may want to laugh, but the Falcons substantially upgraded their QB situation with Cousins... don't care if people think he's a choker or not, he's still good. Where did we upgrade? All we did was re-sign players.

Kirk cousins has won more than 12+ games once in his 12 year career. Over double digits in wins just twice. He has one playoff win on his resume.

...and?

[Grahamburn]

Kirk cousins has won more than 12+ games once in his 12 year career. Over double digits in wins just twice. He has one playoff win on his resume.

...and?

Just that you hold other QB's prior failures with other franchises against them as if they're some sort of predictor of future failures with a new franchise. But, with Cousins you predict future success with a new franchise that he has never been able to consistently achieve in his past. Seems, hypocritical?