Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:03 am
Again, there you are with delusion. Details do matter or at least they should. That's why decisions aren't made in a vacuum.
The only piece here worth discussing is Mauch's profile. He's short armed, yes. But he's very slender and lanky. And wasn't seen as being very strong in his base. That's not one who profiles to move inside. What about Mauch makes you think he projects as a quality G at the NFL level?
Zach Martin - 315
Quenton Nelson - 330
Joel Bitonio - 320
Chris Lindstrom - 307
Cody Mauch - 302
Shaq Mason - 310
So, you perfer a heavy guard more like Nelson? So, potentially if Mauch comes in to TC this season at 315-330 that would impress you?
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:34 am
I say that to say this. Many of us who watch the games and know what we're seeing have provided numerous explanations as to the limitations and problems Mauch has playing G. Your explanation is "be patient" and "Licht's Olinemen do better in year 2". You don't know how or why Mauch would be better in year 2. You don't even know the tools he possesses that would make him better in year 2. Ironically enough Mauch has some of the same issues Goedeke had playing guard. Lacks girth, doesn't redirect well at all. We saw that and moved Goedeke. Might need to do the same with Mauch.
"Many of us who watch the games and know what we're seeing"
ROFLOL
You just excluded yourself.
I am not sure why you wanted to give Jameis more time, but don't want to give Mauch more time. Could you explain that?
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:03 am
Again, there you are with delusion. Details do matter or at least they should. That's why decisions aren't made in a vacuum.
The only piece here worth discussing is Mauch's profile. He's short armed, yes. But he's very slender and lanky. And wasn't seen as being very strong in his base. That's not one who profiles to move inside. What about Mauch makes you think he projects as a quality G at the NFL level?
Zach Martin - 315
Quenton Nelson - 330
Joel Bitonio - 320
Chris Lindstrom - 307
Cody Mauch - 302
Shaq Mason - 310
So, you perfer a heavy guard more like Nelson? So, potentially if Mauch comes in to TC this season at 315-330 that would impress you?
It's not about a preference. Again, you're showing that you don't watch the games. Mauch got thrown around quite frequently. He's very lanky. 6'6" with long legs. And he's on the slimmer side. That doesn't bode well for IOL. Would an extra 15 to 30 pounds impact his already limited athletism? No way of knowing.
Zach Martin - 315
Quenton Nelson - 330
Joel Bitonio - 320
Chris Lindstrom - 307
Cody Mauch - 302
Shaq Mason - 310
So, you perfer a heavy guard more like Nelson? So, potentially if Mauch comes in to TC this season at 315-330 that would impress you?
It's not about a preference. Again, you're showing that you don't watch the games. Mauch got thrown around quite frequently. He's very lanky. 6'6" with long legs. And he's on the slimmer side. That doesn't bode well for IOL. Would an extra 15 to 30 pounds impact his already limited athletism? No way of knowing.
So, you are saying he could improve in year two. I am glad to see you finally agree with that. I am positive that the people in the best position to know how that is progressing are on the Buccaneers coaching staff. I am also positive that you are not one of those people.
It's not about a preference. Again, you're showing that you don't watch the games. Mauch got thrown around quite frequently. He's very lanky. 6'6" with long legs. And he's on the slimmer side. That doesn't bode well for IOL. Would an extra 15 to 30 pounds impact his already limited athletism? No way of knowing.
So, you are saying he could improve in year two. I am glad to see you finally agree with that. I am positive that the people in the best position to know how that is progressing are on the Buccaneers coaching staff. I am also positive that you are not one of those people.
So then you'd agree that you actually have no clue what you're talking about or seeing. You simply yield to whatever it is the people in charge do and your opinion isn't one with any knowledge or basis for anything at all. We agree on THAT.
And honestly, no. I don't believe he improves at guard in year 2. It would be no different than drafting a cornerback and moving him to LB and expected improvement automatically.
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:31 am
So then you'd agree that you actually have no clue what you're talking about or seeing. You simply yield to whatever it is the people in charge do and your opinion isn't one with any knowledge or basis for anything at all. We agree on THAT.
I said those people are in a better position than I am. You are fucking delusional to think you are in a better position that the team coaches. Your have zero facts for what is happening in the off-season with Mauch. When training camp comes, when preseason games come, perhaps then you can have an observation about this upcoming season. You tried to disagree with Graham based on your own fantastical imagination. You provided ZERO facts. You demanded facts when a person provided an opinion that we should WAIT AND SEE since previous OL picked by the Buccaneers were better in their second season. You did not even realize that there was NOTHING for you to argue about. You just decided that you don't like Mauch. You don't want him to get better. You want to trash talk the dude. You are a grand example of an Internet troll.
I just decided to feed you and let you run around to get some exercise.
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 11:31 am
And honestly, no. I don't believe he improves at guard in year 2. It would be no different than drafting a cornerback and moving him to LB and expected improvement automatically.
I think CB to LB is not really a good comparison. Perhaps CB to S would be more accurate for OT to G. You can have your opinion though. Just go back to stalking people from under your bridge now. I am done making you dance for entertainment.
Zach Martin - 315
Quenton Nelson - 330
Joel Bitonio - 320
Chris Lindstrom - 307
Cody Mauch - 302
Shaq Mason - 310
So, you perfer a heavy guard more like Nelson? So, potentially if Mauch comes in to TC this season at 315-330 that would impress you?
It's not about a preference. Again, you're showing that you don't watch the games. Mauch got thrown around quite frequently. He's very lanky. 6'6" with long legs. And he's on the slimmer side. That doesn't bode well for IOL. Would an extra 15 to 30 pounds impact his already limited athletism? No way of knowing.
As an athlete Mauch was 5th in his class. I think he’ll learn the nuances of interior technique and be better next year. He can’t get worse, right?
It's not about a preference. Again, you're showing that you don't watch the games. Mauch got thrown around quite frequently. He's very lanky. 6'6" with long legs. And he's on the slimmer side. That doesn't bode well for IOL. Would an extra 15 to 30 pounds impact his already limited athletism? No way of knowing.
As an athlete Mauch was 5th in his class. I think he’ll learn the nuances of interior technique and be better next year. He can’t get worse, right?
IIRC Goedeke was benched early in his rookie year when the Bucs realized OG wasn't for him. If we're using @Grahamburn and @13F11B logic, the Bucs were in fact wrong in benching him and should have been more patient, right?
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:41 pm
IIRC Goedeke was benched early in his rookie year when the Bucs realized OG wasn't for him. If we're using @Grahamburn and @13F11B logic, the Bucs were in fact wrong in benching him and should have been more patient, right?
To be fair to Goedecke, he was never supposed to be a starter in 2022. Stinnie was going to be LG and was hurt in the Spring. We then moved Mason who was going to play RG to LG. That is why Goedecke started. They clearly knew he wasn't ready, which is why Licht shouldn't have just crossed his fingers and instead grabbed a vet or made a trade
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:41 pm
IIRC Goedeke was benched early in his rookie year when the Bucs realized OG wasn't for him. If we're using @Grahamburn and @13F11B logic, the Bucs were in fact wrong in benching him and should have been more patient, right?
How do we know he wouldn’t have improved as a guard? Isn’t RT more difficult?
Was it bad fit or just desperation on the Bucs’ part?
You take the guys you’ve got and try to put them in positions to succeed. Try to play your best 5.
Wirfs has moved around. Marpet went from guard to center to guard.
Moving college tackles inside isn’t some new practice invented by Jason Licht.
Fact is Goedeke improved in year 2. Was it just because of the position change? I doubt it.
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:41 pm
IIRC Goedeke was benched early in his rookie year when the Bucs realized OG wasn't for him. If we're using @Grahamburn and @13F11B logic, the Bucs were in fact wrong in benching him and should have been more patient, right?
How do we know he wouldn’t have improved as a guard? Isn’t RT more difficult?
Was it bad fit or just desperation on the Bucs’ part?
You take the guys you’ve got and try to put them in positions to succeed. Try to play your best 5.
Wirfs has moved around. Marpet went from guard to center to guard.
Moving college tackles inside isn’t some new practice invented by Jason Licht.
Fact is Goedeke improved in year 2. Was it just because of the position change? I doubt it.
So my question again, were the Bucs wrong in moving him to RT? Also what proof do you have that he would've gotten better at LG?
Is tackle harder than guard? It's not that simple.
There's different responsibilities that go with each job. People assume that because you see college OTs routinely moved inside it means that OT is harder. A lot of times teams want more athletism inside than they usually have. OTs are generally better athletes. In Goedeke's case he was a TE before he moved to Oline. So he's more athletic than you'd normally get with most guards.
On the contrary, ideally your guards will have a more sturdy build and better core strength. Take Marpet for example since he seems to be the blueprint for what Licht does. Marpet was solidly built especially in his lower base. He was strong, not the strongest. But technically speaking he was very good. Goedeke, while athletic, is not solidly built or overly strong. Mauch has the same issue. That hurts in the run game. They can't consistently open and sustain blocks that create running lanes. It was painful obvious in Goedeke's performance inside.
Now I doubt you'll understand most of this as you're set on the premise that all players improve in their 2nd year automatically. But as Licht admitted and you won't, they didn't do right by Goedeke when they put him inside.
How do we know he wouldn’t have improved as a guard? Isn’t RT more difficult?
Was it bad fit or just desperation on the Bucs’ part?
You take the guys you’ve got and try to put them in positions to succeed. Try to play your best 5.
Wirfs has moved around. Marpet went from guard to center to guard.
Moving college tackles inside isn’t some new practice invented by Jason Licht.
Fact is Goedeke improved in year 2. Was it just because of the position change? I doubt it.
So my question again, were the Bucs wrong in moving him to RT? Also what proof do you have that he would've gotten better at LG?
They were clearly correct in moving him back to RT instead of keeping him at G. He looked much more comfortable there when he filled in late in 2022.
I honestly can't remember if the expectation was for him to move inside permanently and/or start at guard that year in the first place. IIRC, they put him there because Stinnie and Jensen got hurt so Hainsey had to start at center. Then Goedeke had to go up against some monster 3-techs early. It was a cluster eff from the jump.
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:11 am
Is tackle harder than guard? It's not that simple.
There's different responsibilities that go with each job. People assume that because you see college OTs routinely moved inside it means that OT is harder. A lot of times teams want more athletism inside than they usually have. OTs are generally better athletes. In Goedeke's case he was a TE before he moved to Oline. So he's more athletic than you'd normally get with most guards.
On the contrary, ideally your guards will have a more sturdy build and better core strength. Take Marpet for example since he seems to be the blueprint for what Licht does. Marpet was solidly built especially in his lower base. He was strong, not the strongest. But technically speaking he was very good. Goedeke, while athletic, is not solidly built or overly strong. Mauch has the same issue. That hurts in the run game. They can't consistently open and sustain blocks that create running lanes. It was painful obvious in Goedeke's performance inside.
Now I doubt you'll understand most of this as you're set on the premise that all players improve in their 2nd year automatically. But as Licht admitted and you won't, they didn't do right by Goedeke when they put him inside.
The first two paragraphs were great. Why do you fill the need to insult me in the last one? What purpose does that serve?
Yes, I believe Licht has been quoted as saying that situation was "unfair" to Goedeke.
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:11 am
Is tackle harder than guard? It's not that simple.
There's different responsibilities that go with each job. People assume that because you see college OTs routinely moved inside it means that OT is harder. A lot of times teams want more athletism inside than they usually have. OTs are generally better athletes. In Goedeke's case he was a TE before he moved to Oline. So he's more athletic than you'd normally get with most guards.
On the contrary, ideally your guards will have a more sturdy build and better core strength. Take Marpet for example since he seems to be the blueprint for what Licht does. Marpet was solidly built especially in his lower base. He was strong, not the strongest. But technically speaking he was very good. Goedeke, while athletic, is not solidly built or overly strong. Mauch has the same issue. That hurts in the run game. They can't consistently open and sustain blocks that create running lanes. It was painful obvious in Goedeke's performance inside.
Now I doubt you'll understand most of this as you're set on the premise that all players improve in their 2nd year automatically. But as Licht admitted and you won't, they didn't do right by Goedeke when they put him inside.
The first two paragraphs were great. Why do you fill the need to insult me in the last one? What purpose does that serve?
Yes, I believe Licht has been quoted as saying that situation was "unfair" to Goedeke.
It's not an insult if it's true. You basically never give any type of detailed or well thought out analysis for anything you say. That's why I say you're a poor man's Doc. He can to his credit combine his giddy optimism with knowledgeable explanation. Yours just comes with hope and wishes. That's not an insult it's just the truth.
The first two paragraphs were great. Why do you fill the need to insult me in the last one? What purpose does that serve?
Yes, I believe Licht has been quoted as saying that situation was "unfair" to Goedeke.
It's not an insult if it's true. You basically never give any type of detailed or well thought out analysis for anything you say. That's why I say you're a poor man's Doc. He can to his credit combine his giddy optimism with knowledgeable explanation. Yours just comes with hope and wishes. That's not an insult it's just the truth.
It's just interesting. You're clearly articulate and intelligent. You could be such an incredible poster if you'd acknowledge other people may have different ideas and strengths that could contribute to the board that may not always be in line with yours.
Telling me I won't understand something because I think ALL players improve automatically in their 2nd year is certainly insulting and of course is not true nor did I imply that in any post I've made in this thread or the other where we were discussing Mauch. Which, of course, you know. Does it somehow make you feel superior to treat people like this?
Bootz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:41 pm
IIRC Goedeke was benched early in his rookie year when the Bucs realized OG wasn't for him. If we're using @Grahamburn and @13F11B logic, the Bucs were in fact wrong in benching him and should have been more patient, right?
Bootz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:11 am
On the contrary, ideally your guards will have a more sturdy build and better core strength. Take Marpet for example since he seems to be the blueprint for what Licht does. Marpet was solidly built especially in his lower base. He was strong, not the strongest. But technically speaking he was very good. Goedeke, while athletic, is not solidly built or overly strong. Mauch has the same issue. That hurts in the run game. They can't consistently open and sustain blocks that create running lanes. It was painful obvious in Goedeke's performance inside.
Exactly how much time do you spend caressing players thighs to learn how solidly they are built and strong they are?
The first two paragraphs were great. Why do you fill the need to insult me in the last one? What purpose does that serve?
Yes, I believe Licht has been quoted as saying that situation was "unfair" to Goedeke.
It's not an insult if it's true. You basically never give any type of detailed or well thought out analysis for anything you say. That's why I say you're a poor man's Doc. He can to his credit combine his giddy optimism with knowledgeable explanation. Yours just comes with hope and wishes. That's not an insult it's just the truth.
You never give any real detail either. You make shit up and hope people don't expose you. Your best contribution to the board is quoting 'X' posts.
Sorry gang. I had not planned on today being 'beat the shit out of @Bootz day'. It just ended up being that way because he started typing nonsense again.
13F11B wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:25 pm
Sorry gang. I had not planned on today being 'beat the shit out of @Bootz day'. It just ended up being that way because he started typing nonsense again.
Trust me, there's no need to apologize. You didn't plan on that being the theme today and it wasn't by any means. Your idiot takes confirmed how little you know. Especially the one about play strength and build. Any idiot who doesn't know that teams evaluate ALL of these aspects needs to find another sport, which clearly you do.
I already knew you were a fucking idiot. Now we all know it.
13F11B wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:25 pm
Sorry gang. I had not planned on today being 'beat the shit out of @Bootz day'. It just ended up being that way because he started typing nonsense again.
Trust me, there's no need to apologize. You didn't plan on that being the theme today and it wasn't by any means. Your idiot takes confirmed how little you know. Especially the one about play strength and build. Any idiot who doesn't know that teams evaluate ALL of these aspects needs to find another sport, which clearly you do.
I already knew you were a fucking idiot. Now we all know it.
I wonder how much disappointment will be on your face when you wake up from your dream.
No need to be an asshole just because someone has a different opinion. Say what you want to say but all any of us contribute on here is opinion as very few of us know what it is like to actually play at that level as most of us peaked at sports in high school.
No need to be an asshole just because someone has a different opinion. Say what you want to say but all any of us contribute on here is opinion as very few of us know what it is like to actually play at that level as most of us peaked at sports in high school.
