Logan Hall: 2022 Draft profile vs NFL reality

[Jonny]

I did not pay much attention to draft prospects and their profiles during the Brady years, because that type of stuff is for fans of bad and mediocre teams.

But now that I'm back to being humble, I'm excited about the various IDL prospects this year. A bunch of them that could be had on day 2 that show tremendous upside to blossom into a Chris Jones for some team.

That brings me to Logan Hall. Never heard of the guy when we drafted him in 22. Now I'm reading his draft profile from various sites, his draft profile is as good as any IDL besides Murphy and Newton from this year's class. Most of them talk about his incredible explosiveness as an athlete, agility and violent hands.

Do you still see those traits show up in his play style and do you think he is being coached to play differently?
What do you see as glaring areas of improvement in his game currently? Is there a reason to be hopeful about his development?

[Snake]

@Doctor ring of honor, yeah?

[Grahamburn]

Pretty invisible so far. Not sure there’s too many reasons to be optimistic.

[IchabodCrane84]

I'm not even sure Hall shows up to some of the games let alone his traits.

[Bootz]

@Doctor ring of honor, yeah?

Not before Jose Ramirez!

[Doctor]

I get that half of all first rounders bust. And we're probably due for an L and he may be one but I don't get the impatience.

Say you have a kid, stays in school, come out 24 years old grown ass man body and has a great rookie year. We cheer.

Now say the kid comes out 2 years younger, choosing instead to develop his body and mind in the NFL. Still yet to turn 24, now grown and sharp, is pegged by teammates as the next dominant Buc figure. Why are we impatient? Can we not wait to see what he does this year and next?

And even if he isn't Mister dominant, he can still very much develop into a Gholston or a role player. Which is still a win of a second rounder.

[acmillis]

I get that half of all first rounders bust. And we're probador due for an L and he may be one but I don't get the impatience.

Say you have a kid, stays in school, come out 24 years old grown ass man buddy and has a great rookie year. We cheer.

Now say the kid comes out 2 years earlier, choosing instead to develop his body and mind in the NFL. Still yet to turn 24, now grown and sharp, is pegged by teammates as the next dominant Buc figure. Why are we impatient? Can we not wait to see what he does this year and next?

And even if he isn't Mister dominant, he can still very much develop into a Gholston or a role player. Which is still a win of a second rounder.

This is where I’m at. He’ll, think of it the other way; people thought Cadillac and Clayton were the second comings of Christ after their rookie campaigns.

[Bootz]

I get that half of all first rounders bust. And we're probador due for an L and he may be one but I don't get the impatience.

Say you have a kid, stays in school, come out 24 years old grown ass man buddy and has a great rookie year. We cheer.

Now say the kid comes out 2 years earlier, choosing instead to develop his body and mind in the NFL. Still yet to turn 24, now grown and sharp, is pegged by teammates as the next dominant Buc figure. Why are we impatient? Can we not wait to see what he does this year and next?

And even if he isn't Mister dominant, he can still very much develop into a Gholston or a role player. Which is still a win of a second rounder.

The issues you laid out here are valid. But none of them apply to Logan Hall. He didn't come out early. He did his 4 years in college, even graduated with his degree. 34 games played in college, he had a lot of experience. He actually grew into his frame in college.

I get that your delusional euphoria aka "hopium" has you believing we'll bat .1000 eventually on every pick we make at some point. But it's actually become arrogance because you automatically dismiss any and every concern people may have about this team or roster and you don't even allow yourself to objectively or honestly get a clear picture. Maybe it's part of your gimmick and you don't care. But I'll indulge.

Logan Hall regressed badly from year 1 to year 2 with an expanded role.

His rookie year he didnt start any games and played just 403 snaps. Statistically, he had 2.5 sacks, hits the QB 5 times, had 16 QB pressures, 5 TFLs. Not great or even good by any stretch, but he's a rookie.

2023 he started 13 of 16 games played and logged 543 snaps. Statistically it couldn't have been worse. He noted a half a sack all season, which accounted for his 1 QB hit all year long. Had 14 QB pressures, 2 TFLs.

It's not impatience, it's realism. What about his performance makes him deserving to keep his starting job? If you say he's not ready and shouldn't yet be starting, that's 1 thing. But to say we should throw him out there and just wait to see what happens simply because he's on THIS team is a dishonest take at best and a slap in the face to people who want actual production and improvement.

[Bootz]

I get that half of all first rounders bust. And we're probador due for an L and he may be one but I don't get the impatience.

Say you have a kid, stays in school, come out 24 years old grown ass man buddy and has a great rookie year. We cheer.

Now say the kid comes out 2 years earlier, choosing instead to develop his body and mind in the NFL. Still yet to turn 24, now grown and sharp, is pegged by teammates as the next dominant Buc figure. Why are we impatient? Can we not wait to see what he does this year and next?

And even if he isn't Mister dominant, he can still very much develop into a Gholston or a role player. Which is still a win of a second rounder.

This is where I’m at. He’ll, think of it the other way; people thought Cadillac and Clayton were the second comings of Christ after their rookie campaigns.

Hall is right on their heels honestly. He sharply declined in year 2.

[Jonny]

We should consider Hall as a first rounder. He was among numerous players Bucs front office very likely had a first round grade on, but not utterly giddy about, which is why they traded down from late 1st to beginning of 2nd.

I'm pretty skeptical of D-line coaching in Bowles era in general (one could argue since Rod Marinelli but that is irrelevant to this discussion). We have not really developed any young talent so far despite investing quite a bit on the D-line. JTS still seems to know only speed rush. Diaby's statline looks decent, but quite a few of his sacks were hustle plays and almost none of them were him beating his man straight up. In my opinion Kancey is a special talent that has had his share of flashes and struggles, but the flashes mostly from his supremely refined pass rush tendencies from his time in college along with that insane quickness. I doubt Bucs D-line coaching has had much to do with it.

Watching Hall's college highlights vs NFL, it feels like the aggression and physical play style of his in college are completely gone. He plays passive, tentative, with no reckless abandon or desire to impose his will. I remember watching RoJo as a rookie and even sophomore. Looked very tentative, indecisive etc. And then out of nowhere he started to run with authority and the 100 yd rushing games started to come in bunches. I'm hoping that type of an awakening happens with Hall as well. Goedeke also went through that phase. Rooting for the kid, but it is unfortunate that we have seen so little, I'm rooting for Bucs to draft a Brandon Dorlus or Jenkins Jr in 2nd or 3rd.

[Doctor]

Bowles can scheme jags into goods position in good rotations to be effective. Give him a real talent and you have a sack king like Shaq.

But those are hard to come by. Maybe we land a Latu or Verse in this draft. Plenty of great day 2 guys too.

[Doctor]

https://thepewterplank.com/posts/logan- ... hp2jgxgv9r

Will Gholston thinks Logan Hall is going to be 'a dominant figure' for Buccaneers

Talking up the young defensive stars in Tampa Bay, Gholston name-checked guys like Calijah Kancey, Vita Vea (who he said is young compared to him), and Yaya Diaby but singled out Logan Hall as a guy to start buying stock in before it's too late.

"There was a guy who wasn't a rookie who stood and held his own, my guy Logan [Hall]," Gholston said. "I gotta shout Logan out because next year he's going to be a dominant figure in the NFL. You're going to know who that is."

[Cheb]

Will Gholston also said Logan Hall would have at least six sacks as a rookie, and comped him to "an even more athletic J.J. Watt in his prime” before Hall had even put on pads or played a professional down of ball. As a reminder, Logan Hall has three sacks in two years.

I wouldn't take Will's optimistic prognostications as gospel.

---

Here's what I wrote about Logan Hall the day after we drafted him, after I actually sat down to watch him play:

Here he is versus Cincinnati last year:



I mean, there's things to like. He's strong, he can take on a double team without embarrassing himself, and he can flash as a pass rusher on rare occasions.

But his inability to deal with mid-major offensive linemen is concerning. He doesn't use his length well, he's slow off the line, plays upright, his tools are nonexistent, and he handfights like a Greco-Roman wrestler, which is to say he doesn't at all. He gets caught up in the trash instead of disengaging from it and making plays.

You know who he reminds me of? A young Will Gholston.

I can see what we like though. He's a moldable piece of clay. If we taught him to play football instead of the MMA fighting he seems to prefer, I think he could be a decent rotational piece in the interior.

I stand by that. We are 1000+ snaps in Logan Hall's career and he has shown us the kind of player he is, which is the same kind of player he was in college.

The goal of an offensive lineman, if he cannot dominate his opponent directly, is to tie up his defender and waste his time so he can't make a play. Logan Hall seems content to have his time wasted.

Logan is not an active liability on most downs which is nice, but he lives in the trash so much he's practically a raccoon at this point. Playmakers make plays, and Logan Hall doesn't make many. He averages a tackle a game and a sack every 11 games. For the top pick of the second round, that's unacceptable.

Could Logan Hall turn it on in year 3? Of course he could, especially with Vea and Kancey and Yaya taking attention away from him. Nobody is staying up late worrying about blocking Logan Hall. He's low on our totem pole of DL talent, lower than JTS for my money, so maybe tied for fifth with Greg Gaines, though if we draft a young Edge in a few weeks that may push Logan down even further, making him what, our sixth or seventh best player on the DL?

Logan is going to get alot of single blocks because of that, and he ain't playing nose where he's going to expect tons of doubles due to positional alignment. That's about all you can ask for as a defensive lineman, just give me a single block and a chance and let me make some plays. But even when he gets those favorable looks, and last year he got plenty of them, he doesn't take advantage or flash dominant traits. He flashes boring JAGiness, and he shows the same deficiencies in the pros as he did in college.

Last year, Logan had 22 total tackles (11 solo and 11 assists) and half a sack in over 600 snaps. I expect more of the same.

[Snake]

It was a bad pick.

Gholston further proved that players suck ass at player evaluation as a general rule.

[Backside]

JTS and Hall busted so that YaYa and Kancey could thrive.

[Jonny]

JTS and Hall busted so that YaYa and Kancey could thrive.

I'm sort of lukewarm on Diaby. I think he will turn up being a faster stronger version of Anthony Nelson and a solid complimentary piece. He is too stiff of an athlete in my opinion.

I like that pass rush has been on Licht's mind for a while and he doesn't hesitate to invest in that position year after year after year.

Even though too much has been invested on defense, I would rather our first round be on a pass rusher they have high grades on than any offensive player.