The OFFICIAL 2024 Bucs off-season thread

[Snake]

He lied.

[CannonFire]

Wow, I hope that's not the case, LOL

Which part? It was definitely the case.

Bowles wanted him with the Jets, but he was the #1 pick, and he got stuck with Darnold. Licht is on record saying he was their #1 QB that year. Arians prior to coming here said he was interested in a return to coaching in Cleveland due to Mayfield.

So, I think when he came available that put their heads together and said, "why not?" Clearly was a wise choice.

Because that means that Licht screwed up many more times than I thought when it comes to QB evaluations.

First, he wiffed on Winston, not once, not twice, but 3 times. He dropped the ball pre-2015 draft, and took him #1. Then, in 2018 when he had a chance to replace him (we had the #7 pick and traded it to Buffalo so that they can take Josh Allen), he chose to trade the pick... then he picked up the

Now, you're saying he liked Mayfield... which means he screwed up there too. On top of that, had the chance to take Josh Allen, and screwed up there, by not taking him.

In Nov of 2017, news came out about Winston and the Uber driver. He also had a subpar 2017 season, his 3rd out of 3. Licht had the chance to use that along with the play of Winston to say, "Hey, we're going to look in another direction because the 2018 draft gave us that chance", and while the FSU homers would've been mad, the rest of the Bucs fan base would've been happy. He didn't... he doubled, no TRIPLED down on Winston, by instead of replacing him, he picked up the 5th year option.

On top of that, he drafts Trask in 2021. Now, @mdb1958 does say he thinks that Trask was probably Arians' guy and I'm inclined to believe him, but Licht agreed with him.

So, since 2015, Licht has been wrong about QB's in...
2015 - Drafting Winston
2018 - Liking Mayfield more than Allen
2018 - Liking Winston more than Allen
2018 - Not replacing Winston at all
2018 - Picking up Winston's 5th year option
2021 - Drafting Trask

I think you're right... we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's. I think he should hire an assistant who's job it is to evaluate QB's, and leave those decisions to that person.

[Grahamburn]

You forgot a QB in there somewhere. Can't quite put my finger on it.

[CannonFire]

Trask did seem to have the traits that Arians would prefer in a QB. I will add that if Arians was still the HC, I believe for that reason that Mayfield wouldn't be here, so I'm inclined to think you are correct.

From 2018 after Arians retired from AZ:

Bruce Arians said the 2018 draft class might have the best group of quarterbacks in 20 years. At the top of his list is Baker Mayfield.

"There are so many big, tall, talented guys," Arians said Friday. "I like Baker. His enthusiasm, because it’s real, not false. Got to curb it a little, maybe, but maybe not. Guys respect 'real' in the locker room. If that’s who you really are, they’ll follow you."

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/new ... wzk1wfqd3f

That's a bit surprising. He doesn't fit the mold of any QB he ever had. He always had the tall/big-arm pocket passer with good field vision. Mayfield is NONE of those.

[CannonFire]

You forgot a QB in there somewhere. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Mariota? Well, I mean that's good that he didn't draft him I guess. What other QB prospects did he miss? Or, are you pretending that Brady is a college QB prospect that Licht deserves credit for?

[Phantom]

Boom! Good job@Grahamburn

[CannonFire]

Trask did seem to have the traits that Arians would prefer in a QB. I will add that if Arians was still the HC, I believe for that reason that Mayfield wouldn't be here, so I'm inclined to think you are correct.

Well I'm not saying he didnt like Mayfield also - it just happened.

Fair enough.

[Grahamburn]

You forgot a QB in there somewhere. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Mariota? Well, I mean that's good that he didn't draft him I guess. What other QB prospects did he miss? Or, are you pretending that Brady is a college QB prospect that Licht deserves credit for?

Because that means that Licht screwed up many more times than I thought when it comes to QB evaluations.

Convenient to shift it to prospects only.

[Grahamburn]

And by most standards Baker Mayfield would be considered a hit as far as draft evaluations go. I bet Browns' fans would welcome him back with open arms.

[CannonFire]

Mariota? Well, I mean that's good that he didn't draft him I guess. What other QB prospects did he miss? Or, are you pretending that Brady is a college QB prospect that Licht deserves credit for?

Because that means that Licht screwed up many more times than I thought when it comes to QB evaluations.

Convenient to shift it to prospects only.

What do you mean? The post you were replying to was 100% directed at college QB prospects. It only included Winston, Mayfield, Allen, & Trask.

Are you saying because Brady wanted to come here, that means that Licht is good at recognizing QB talent? I mean, I think virtually everyone in the world knew that Brady was a pretty good QB. Even people who think Baker Mayfield is good, knew that Brady was rather great. If Licht didn't know that, then he doesn't belong in the NFL. LOL

[CannonFire]

And by most standards Baker Mayfield would be considered a hit as far as draft evaluations go. I bet Browns' fans would welcome him back with open arms.

You would lose that bet. Not saying they all love Watson, but they don't miss Mayfield. Oh, I'm sure you can find an article by someone where they're mad with the Browns moving on, just like I'm sure you can probably find articles after the 2019 season wondering why we didn't extend Winston.
But I have a lot of family in the Cleveland area (Westlake, Elyria, Bay Village), and in tune with the Cleveland area as a whole, and I can tell you, they're not upset he's gone. By and large, their issue would be that Mayfield was replaced by Watson, not that he was replaced.

That's not to say the fans didn't like Baker Mayfield the person. He's a very likeable person... I like him, and the vast majority just think the Browns handled the situation poorly.

After we got Mayfield, I texted some cousins and asked them what they thought. After laughing and saying "enjoy mediocrity", they said he'll be good enough to make you think there's more, but there isn't. Pretty spot on I'd say. After the season was over, last month he sent me this article, and said, "notice how there are no quotes from any fans?"

[CannonFire]

Boom! Good job@Grahamburn

Giving props to a strawman argument? You hurt my feelings.

[Grahamburn]

Convenient to shift it to prospects only.

What do you mean? The post you were replying to was 100% directed at college QB prospects. It only included Winston, Mayfield, Allen, & Trask.

Are you saying because Brady wanted to come here, that means that Licht is good at recognizing QB talent? I mean, I think virtually everyone in the world knew that Brady was a pretty good QB. Even people who think Baker Mayfield is good, knew that Brady was rather great. If Licht didn't know that, then he doesn't belong in the NFL. LOL

I'm not sure what the point of this whole conversation is?

I was replying to the discussion regarding Trask. He may have received a shot to start here IF several members of the front office didn't already have preconceived positive notions regarding Mayfield in an off-season where Mayfield was available and very cheap.

Right or wrong they have all liked Mayfield since his draft year. You are assuming they're wrong and 2023 along with his other good seasons are flukes. I think the jury is still out.

Winston and Trask were bad picks by Licht. Signing Brady brought us a Super Bowl. He got a division title and a playoff win out of Mayfield for $8M bucks. I'd say he's batting at least .500 in the QB evaluation aspects of his Bucs' career.

Since when is a GM's job prospects only? And, just for brevity, you did not declare you were referring to prospects only in your post.

[CannonFire]

What do you mean? The post you were replying to was 100% directed at college QB prospects. It only included Winston, Mayfield, Allen, & Trask.

Are you saying because Brady wanted to come here, that means that Licht is good at recognizing QB talent? I mean, I think virtually everyone in the world knew that Brady was a pretty good QB. Even people who think Baker Mayfield is good, knew that Brady was rather great. If Licht didn't know that, then he doesn't belong in the NFL. LOL

I'm not sure what the point of this whole conversation is?

I was replying to the discussion regarding Trask. He may have received a shot to start here IF several members of the front office didn't already have preconceived positive notions regarding Mayfield in an off-season where Mayfield was available and very cheap.

Right or wrong they have all liked Mayfield since his draft year. You are assuming they're wrong and 2023 along with his other good seasons are flukes. I think the jury is still out.

Winston and Trask were bad picks by Licht. Signing Brady brought us a Super Bowl. He got a division title and a playoff win out of Mayfield for $8M bucks. I'd say he's batting at least .500 in the QB evaluation aspects of his Bucs' career.

Since when is a GM's job prospects only? And, just for brevity, you did not declare you were referring to prospects only in your post.

Yeah, you were talking about Trask (college QB prospect), and mentioned how Licht liked Mayfield (college QB prospect). I responded on Licht's talent evaluations regarding college QB prospects. I'm not sure what the confusion is.

I'm not assuming they're wrong... there's no assumption about it. Mayfield is a bottom tier starting QB (best as a backup), who is only a stop gap QB. There's nothing wrong with him if he's making $10M, because you have money to make up for his shortcomings. But, when you have a team needing cap relief and you give him $50M guaranteed over 2 years, you just wasted $30M. I'm willing to bet every person on this board can find a better way to spend $30M to upgrade this team.

[Buc2]

Which part? It was definitely the case.

Bowles wanted him with the Jets, but he was the #1 pick, and he got stuck with Darnold. Licht is on record saying he was their #1 QB that year. Arians prior to coming here said he was interested in a return to coaching in Cleveland due to Mayfield.

So, I think when he came available that put their heads together and said, "why not?" Clearly was a wise choice.

Because that means that Licht screwed up many more times than I thought when it comes to QB evaluations.

First, he wiffed on Winston, not once, not twice, but 3 times. He dropped the ball pre-2015 draft, and took him #1. Then, in 2018 when he had a chance to replace him (we had the #7 pick and traded it to Buffalo so that they can take Josh Allen), he chose to trade the pick... then he picked up the

Now, you're saying he liked Mayfield... which means he screwed up there too. On top of that, had the chance to take Josh Allen, and screwed up there, by not taking him.

In Nov of 2017, news came out about Winston and the Uber driver. He also had a subpar 2017 season, his 3rd out of 3. Licht had the chance to use that along with the play of Winston to say, "Hey, we're going to look in another direction because the 2018 draft gave us that chance", and while the FSU homers would've been mad, the rest of the Bucs fan base would've been happy. He didn't... he doubled, no TRIPLED down on Winston, by instead of replacing him, he picked up the 5th year option.

On top of that, he drafts Trask in 2021. Now, @mdb1958 does say he thinks that Trask was probably Arians' guy and I'm inclined to believe him, but Licht agreed with him.

So, since 2015, Licht has been wrong about QB's in...
2015 - Drafting Winston
2018 - Liking Mayfield more than Allen
2018 - Liking Winston more than Allen
2018 - Not replacing Winston at all
2018 - Picking up Winston's 5th year option
2021 - Drafting Trask

I think you're right... we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's. I think he should hire an assistant who's job it is to evaluate QB's, and leave those decisions to that person.

Pretty sure he has people (scouts) that do these evaluations. Now, if you want to say he sucks at interpreting his scouts evaluations, so be it. Perhaps you should offer your services.

Now, granted...this isn't for the job of GM or Scout, but it would get you in the door where you'd at least have the opportunity to get noticed for your keen player personnel insights.

https://us232.dayforcehcm.com/Candidate ... /View/1427

[Phantom]

Boom! Good job@Grahamburn

Giving props to a strawman argument? You hurt my feelings.

He’s right tho. Never intend to hurt your feelings on a message board.

[CannonFire]

Because that means that Licht screwed up many more times than I thought when it comes to QB evaluations.

First, he wiffed on Winston, not once, not twice, but 3 times. He dropped the ball pre-2015 draft, and took him #1. Then, in 2018 when he had a chance to replace him (we had the #7 pick and traded it to Buffalo so that they can take Josh Allen), he chose to trade the pick... then he picked up the

Now, you're saying he liked Mayfield... which means he screwed up there too. On top of that, had the chance to take Josh Allen, and screwed up there, by not taking him.

In Nov of 2017, news came out about Winston and the Uber driver. He also had a subpar 2017 season, his 3rd out of 3. Licht had the chance to use that along with the play of Winston to say, "Hey, we're going to look in another direction because the 2018 draft gave us that chance", and while the FSU homers would've been mad, the rest of the Bucs fan base would've been happy. He didn't... he doubled, no TRIPLED down on Winston, by instead of replacing him, he picked up the 5th year option.

On top of that, he drafts Trask in 2021. Now, @mdb1958 does say he thinks that Trask was probably Arians' guy and I'm inclined to believe him, but Licht agreed with him.

So, since 2015, Licht has been wrong about QB's in...
2015 - Drafting Winston
2018 - Liking Mayfield more than Allen
2018 - Liking Winston more than Allen
2018 - Not replacing Winston at all
2018 - Picking up Winston's 5th year option
2021 - Drafting Trask

I think you're right... we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's. I think he should hire an assistant who's job it is to evaluate QB's, and leave those decisions to that person.

Pretty sure he has people (scouts) that do these evaluations. Now, if you want to say he sucks at interpreting his scouts evaluations, so be it. Perhaps you should offer your services.

Now, granted...this isn't for the job of GM or Scout, but it would get you in the door where you'd at least have the opportunity to get noticed for your keen player personnel insights.

https://us232.dayforcehcm.com/Candidate ... /View/1427

Boy I love these types of comments, "you should offer your services". I would. I'd take 10% of what they're making, LOL. I don't think they'd hire me, so what good will it do? I'm not saying I could do a better a job, I'm saying the job he (or they), are doing is bad. Whether it's him or the scouts... or whomever, the results show they were wrong at every evaluation since 2015. Their job is to be right, at some point. As a fan, I call it like I see it, based on the results.

[CannonFire]

Giving props to a strawman argument? You hurt my feelings.

He’s right tho. Never intend to hurt your feelings on a message board.

I guess, but that wasn't what I was talking about... neither was he. He mentioned draft prospects, so did I. No one said anything about free agents. Like I said in my response to him, it's not like the entire world didn't know how good Brady was.

Thank you for showing some compassion.

[Phantom]

He’s right tho. Never intend to hurt your feelings on a message board.

I guess, but that wasn't what I was talking about... neither was he. He mentioned draft prospects, so did I. No one said anything about free agents. Like I said in my response to him, it's not like the entire world didn't know how good Brady was.

Thank you for showing some compassion.

Huh? I'm referring to this post.

From 2018 after Arians retired from AZ:



https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nfl/new ... wzk1wfqd3f

That's a bit surprising. He doesn't fit the mold of any QB he ever had. He always had the tall/big-arm pocket passer with good field vision. Mayfield is NONE of those.

Just an opinion but I thought Trask and the special teamers were all Bruce Arians.

Trask did seem to have the traits that Arians would prefer in a QB. I will add that if Arians was still the HC, I believe for that reason that Mayfield wouldn't be here, so I'm inclined to think you are correct.

[Phantom]

Cannon, It seems like you have been constantly posting negative thing about Mayfield in last few months. Are you a Browns fan or something? Mayfield hater?

[Grahamburn]

And by most standards Baker Mayfield would be considered a hit as far as draft evaluations go. I bet Browns' fans would welcome him back with open arms.

You would lose that bet. Not saying they all love Watson, but they don't miss Mayfield.

If Browns' fans had the hypothetical option of keeping Mayfield back on his 5th year option, getting what we got out of him, and then signing him to the deal we just signed him to versus trading their draft souls and signing Watson to the richest guaranteed QB contract ever you don't think they'd choose Mayfield?

You certainly wouldn't take the Watson end. If you say you would you're just lying to be hyperbolic.

The Browns sent the Texans their 2022, 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round pick, a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024. Signed Watson to a $230M guaranteed contract.

You don't think they'd rather have Mayfield, their picks, and their cap not neutered? Yes, they would.

[Buc2]

Pretty sure he has people (scouts) that do these evaluations. Now, if you want to say he sucks at interpreting his scouts evaluations, so be it. Perhaps you should offer your services.

Now, granted...this isn't for the job of GM or Scout, but it would get you in the door where you'd at least have the opportunity to get noticed for your keen player personnel insights.

https://us232.dayforcehcm.com/Candidate ... /View/1427

Boy I love these types of comments, "you should offer your services". I would. I'd take 10% of what they're making, LOL. I don't think they'd hire me, so what good will it do? I'm not saying I could do a better a job, I'm saying the job he (or they), are doing is bad. Whether it's him or the scouts... or whomever, the results show they were wrong at every evaluation since 2015. Their job is to be right, at some point. As a fan, I call it like I see it, based on the results.

Just messin' with you, man. We'd all take a job like that. lol

[Doctor]

Graham is cleaning up in this thread.

So in the end Canon is just hindsight upset we didn't get Josh Allen, the least liked QB in his class, that one year. And his cousins tease him.

[mdb1958]

I'm seeing Prince Pines G being linked to us.

[13F11B]

So, since 2015, Licht has been wrong about QB's in...
2015 - Drafting Winston
2018 - Liking Mayfield more than Allen
2018 - Liking Winston more than Allen
2018 - Not replacing Winston at all
2018 - Picking up Winston's 5th year option
2021 - Drafting Trask

I think you're right... we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's. I think he should hire an assistant who's job it is to evaluate QB's, and leave those decisions to that person.

Crazy talk. GMs have staff that are responsible for player evaluation. There are people who focus on college players, and others who focus on current NFL players. They give information to the GM and coaches who then make decisions. Not sure blaming Licht is correct in this case.

Now, do I agree the Buccaneers (GM+Scouts+Coaches) fucked up the QB position. Yes, yes I do. The Buccaneers have historically sucked at QB evaluation/development.

Doug Williams
Steve Young
Trent Dilfer
Vinny T
etc...

We can't seem to draft and develop a guy regardless of how the coach and GM are.

We win when we get a veteran

Brady
Brad Johnson

We will see if Mayfield can join them.

[CannonFire]

I guess, but that wasn't what I was talking about... neither was he. He mentioned draft prospects, so did I. No one said anything about free agents. Like I said in my response to him, it's not like the entire world didn't know how good Brady was.

Thank you for showing some compassion.

Huh? I'm referring to this post.

That's a bit surprising. He doesn't fit the mold of any QB he ever had. He always had the tall/big-arm pocket passer with good field vision. Mayfield is NONE of those.

Trask did seem to have the traits that Arians would prefer in a QB. I will add that if Arians was still the HC, I believe for that reason that Mayfield wouldn't be here, so I'm inclined to think you are correct.

Oh, sorry. Thought you were referring to his prior post about Brady.

[CannonFire]

You would lose that bet. Not saying they all love Watson, but they don't miss Mayfield.

If Browns' fans had the hypothetical option of keeping Mayfield back on his 5th year option, getting what we got out of him, and then signing him to the deal we just signed him to versus trading their draft souls and signing Watson to the richest guaranteed QB contract ever you don't think they'd choose Mayfield?

You certainly wouldn't take the Watson end. If you say you would you're just lying to be hyperbolic.

The Browns sent the Texans their 2022, 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round pick, a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024. Signed Watson to a $230M guaranteed contract.

You don't think they'd rather have Mayfield, their picks, and their cap not neutered? Yes, they would.

The majority, though slight majority, would take Watson. The fanbase didn't like Mayfield up there. I don't know why that's so hard for you to believe. I mean, just 12 months ago, there were 32 teams who didn't think he was worth a starting contract. With that fact on the record, I don't know why you think the Cleveland fans would want the same Mayfield they just lost? You thinking that 2023 was some monumental improvement from his prior 4 playing years is a figment of your imagination. In Mayfield's last year in Cleveland (2021), the Browns were 8-9 with the 20th ranked scoring offense. In the year he was traded, the Browns went 7-10 with the 18th ranked offense. Meaning, their offense was better without Mayfield. Their defense on the other hand was worse. Last year, Mayfield's led Buccaneers offense ranked 20th and won 9 games... the Browns with QB du jour had the 10th ranked scoring offense and won 11 games. Why on EARTH, would you think the Browns fans are upset Mayfield's gone?

Note, the minority only don't (didn't), want Watson because the off-the-field issues, not on-the-field. If Watson plays in 2024 like he did in 2020, there will be about 5% of the Cleveland fanbase who are upset about Watson.

[CannonFire]

So, since 2015, Licht has been wrong about QB's in...
2015 - Drafting Winston
2018 - Liking Mayfield more than Allen
2018 - Liking Winston more than Allen
2018 - Not replacing Winston at all
2018 - Picking up Winston's 5th year option
2021 - Drafting Trask

I think you're right... we're better off with Licht not evaluating college QB's. I think he should hire an assistant who's job it is to evaluate QB's, and leave those decisions to that person.

Crazy talk. GMs have staff that are responsible for player evaluation. There are people who focus on college players, and others who focus on current NFL players. They give information to the GM and coaches who then make decisions. Not sure blaming Licht is correct in this case.

Now, do I agree the Buccaneers (GM+Scouts+Coaches) fucked up the QB position. Yes, yes I do. The Buccaneers have historically sucked at QB evaluation/development.

Doug Williams
Steve Young
Trent Dilfer
Vinny T
etc...

We can't seem to draft and develop a guy regardless of how the coach and GM are.

We win when we get a veteran

Brady
Brad Johnson

We will see if Mayfield can join them.

It's not crazy talk at all. The GM pulls the trigger, that's his job, it's his accountability. He has control of who his scouts are. If the ones giving him advice on the QB's is routinely wrong, it's his job to make changes, otherwise it will be ownership that changes his situation.

[Doctor]

Any savior groupie that tries to argue that Winston was a bad pick has lost all credibility. As if they had any to begin with.

[mdb1958]

Who started the we need a TE nonsense

[Bootz]

Who started the we need a TE nonsense

People with eyes who know what they are seeing.

[Navybuc]

If miraculously Brock Bowers were there at around 15-20, we’d be complete idiots not to try and put together a package to try to move up to get him.

[acmillis]

Two firsts for a TE...yeah, IDK about that. I know he's seen as generational, but he's still a TE and we have no clue how Coen intends to use TE(s) in this offense.

Think about it. How many TEs would you be willing to give up two first round picks for (going as far back as you want). You can probably count them on one, maybe two hands, and that's knowing how their respective careers turned out.

I mean...there are only 11 HOF TEs (Gronk assuredly going in, IMO), so call it a dozen.

It's a "roll of the dice" I wouldn't want to take. Just my .02.

[mdb1958]

Two firsts for a TE...yeah, IDK about that. I know he's seen as generational, but he's still a TE and we have no clue how Coen intends to use TE(s) in this offense.

Think about it. How many TEs would you be willing to give up two first round picks for (going as far back as you want). You can probably count them on one, maybe two hands, and that's knowing how their respective careers turned out.

I mean...there are only 11 HOF TEs (Gronk assuredly going in, IMO), so call it a dozen.

It's a "roll of the dice" I wouldn't want to take. Just my .02.

If he hangs around that line of scrimmage he will get blasted like Gronk did.

[Bootz]

Two firsts for a TE...yeah, IDK about that. I know he's seen as generational, but he's still a TE and we have no clue how Coen intends to use TE(s) in this offense.

Think about it. How many TEs would you be willing to give up two first round picks for (going as far back as you want). You can probably count them on one, maybe two hands, and that's knowing how their respective careers turned out.

I mean...there are only 11 HOF TEs (Gronk assuredly going in, IMO), so call it a dozen.

It's a "roll of the dice" I wouldn't want to take. Just my .02.

On an offense with a bad OL, no depth at WR, 1 that's 31, the other in a contract year, a subpar RB room, the last thing we need to be doing is trading up for a TE.
I don't care what the plan is for the OC. You just don't do it.