Baker Mayfield: PAID

[Snake]

What if you're wrong?

I think the inevitable conclusion is that we'll all be right, but from 2 different perspectives. Next year, they can go 8-9 and some of us will say, "see, he's an average QB and we finished with an average record", while others will say "see, we were in the mix and competitive".

In the end, the Bucs will be around .500 (a game or 2, maybe 3... over or under), during Mayfield's tenure here and Tampa. There's a chance we'll make the playoffs during that time and most likely be 1 and done. If I had to guess, I'm going to say that we'll be 7-10 next year, 9-8 the following year, and 8-9 in the 3rd. Let's hope Licht and Co (if they're still here), pull the plug on the experiment at this point in time and move on.

Our best chance to be a contender with Mayfield, would be if Licht and Bowles can build a 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs defense in a very short period of time.

Nailed it.

[Four Verticals]

What QB is going to guarantee that the Bucs aren't in that situation with any QB who'd be available?

[Buc2]

What QB is going to guarantee that the Bucs aren't in that situation with any QB who'd be available?

The miracle, undrafted QB of course. I mean. Duh. /s

[Phantom]

Baker Mayfield's market value 27.1
4 yrs, $108,512,500
Avg. Salary: $27,128,125
NFL Rank: 23
QB Rank: 18

Upcoming NFL Free Agent Pool - QB Edition
Kirk Cousins (35.4) - $40M
Baker Mayfield (28.8) - $30M
Russell Wilson (35.2) - $25M *expected FA
Gardner Minshew (27.7) - $15M
Jimmy Garoppolo (32.3) - $8M *expected FA
Jake Browning (27.8) - $7M
Joshua Dobbs (29.0) - $7M
Ryan Tannehill (35.5) - $6M

Values via
@spotrac
and Over the Cap

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-b ... ket-value/

[CannonFire]

Baker Mayfield's market value 27.1
4 yrs, $108,512,500
Avg. Salary: $27,128,125
NFL Rank: 23
QB Rank: 18

Upcoming NFL Free Agent Pool - QB Edition
Kirk Cousins (35.4) - $40M
Baker Mayfield (28.8) - $30M
Russell Wilson (35.2) - $25M *expected FA
Gardner Minshew (27.7) - $15M
Jimmy Garoppolo (32.3) - $8M *expected FA
Jake Browning (27.8) - $7M
Joshua Dobbs (29.0) - $7M
Ryan Tannehill (35.5) - $6M

Values via
@spotrac
and Over the Cap

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-b ... ket-value/

I find it amazing that when you look at the statistical comparisons and see that overall, he's below average (Median Prime % Change: -6.90% / Average Prime % Change: -8.86%), that more people don't show dismay at a long term deal.

[Bootz]

Baker Mayfield's market value 27.1
4 yrs, $108,512,500
Avg. Salary: $27,128,125
NFL Rank: 23
QB Rank: 18

Upcoming NFL Free Agent Pool - QB Edition
Kirk Cousins (35.4) - $40M
Baker Mayfield (28.8) - $30M
Russell Wilson (35.2) - $25M *expected FA
Gardner Minshew (27.7) - $15M
Jimmy Garoppolo (32.3) - $8M *expected FA
Jake Browning (27.8) - $7M
Joshua Dobbs (29.0) - $7M
Ryan Tannehill (35.5) - $6M

Values via
@spotrac
and Over the Cap

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-b ... ket-value/

I don't think anyone would shy from that deal.

[Phantom]

Do you think @acmillis approve this deal?

[GreatTimes]

Baker Mayfield's market value 27.1
4 yrs, $108,512,500
Avg. Salary: $27,128,125
NFL Rank: 23
QB Rank: 18

Upcoming NFL Free Agent Pool - QB Edition
Kirk Cousins (35.4) - $40M
Baker Mayfield (28.8) - $30M
Russell Wilson (35.2) - $25M *expected FA
Gardner Minshew (27.7) - $15M
Jimmy Garoppolo (32.3) - $8M *expected FA
Jake Browning (27.8) - $7M
Joshua Dobbs (29.0) - $7M
Ryan Tannehill (35.5) - $6M

Values via
@spotrac
and Over the Cap

With that standing among other NFL QB's the Bucs need to sign Baker to a 50 million a year contract for 4 years, all guaranteed. After coming off his best season as a pro and being ranked in the top 25, he should be rewarded. Especially when you consider that the Bucs had the 27th hardest schedule in the NFL last season.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-b ... ket-value/

[Grahamburn]

I tend to agree. Baker Mayfield isn’t going to be Patrick Mahomes. He’ll need help.

I think the Baker Mayfield “fans” realize there’s more than one way to build a championship team.

I don’t see anything fundamentally wrong with Mayfield that ultimately precludes him from being a QB for a championship team.

[Snake]

There is more than one way to build a championship team. It just really helps to have a very, very good quarterback. It sets the floor every year.

A guy like Mayfield is so prone to performance variance because he’s so dependent on shit going on around him and his play style.

[Bootz]

QBs who have won Superbowls over the past 10 years:

Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Matthew Stafford
Nick Foles
Peyton Manning

Clearly more than 1 way to win a championship.

[Snake]

Either be an elite QB, or play like one for a handful of games?

Yes, I know Manning was Old Nerve Damage Manning that year. but it seems curious to me that that list includes 2 #1 overall picks, the two GOATs (arguably 3 of the top 5 QBs ever), and Nick Foles.

Having a really good QB raises your chances of being SB bound by a lot.

[Bootz]

Either be an elite QB, or play like one for a handful of games?

Yes, I know Manning was Old Nerve Damage Manning that year. but it seems curious to me that that list includes 2 #1 overall picks, the two GOATs (arguably 3 of the top 5 QBs ever), and Nick Foles.

Having a really good QB raises your chances of being SB bound by a lot.

What's telling to me is the of the 2 active guys on this list, 1 of them is 36 and will likely never come close to another Superbowl win and the other is on track to being the greatest winner ever. Who else will step up?

[CannonFire]

QBs who have won Superbowls over the past 10 years:

Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Matthew Stafford
Nick Foles
Peyton Manning

Clearly more than 1 way to win a championship.

Yeah, there's 2 and your list proves it. Have an elite defense or QB.

Let's not pretend that Wentz wasn't on an MVP pace (finished 3rd in voting), in 2017 and that Foles was good in the 4 games prior to the NFCCG. Foles did have a 7 TD game and a 27 TD/2 Int season in his career, but overall, you're asking for a miracle and that's with an elite defense and offensive line. Those things are easier to accomplish when your entire QB room makes $6M. Wentz was on his rookie deal, year 2 I believe, making only $1.5M. Foles was at $4M and Sudfeld made league minimum.

Matt Stafford is an above average QB and the Rams had the best defense in the league that year.

Mayfield is below average, like Foles. So, as I said in a prior post, the Bucs need an elite defense to match the 2017 Eagles season AND get lucky... and do that with a QB room making 4x more than the Eagles' that year.

[acmillis]

Do you think @acmillis approve this deal?

1. No
2. Nobody gives a fuck what I think, not even my dead mother, so there’s that.

[kaimaru]

What if you're wrong?

I think the inevitable conclusion is that we'll all be right, but from 2 different perspectives. Next year, they can go 8-9 and some of us will say, "see, he's an average QB and we finished with an average record", while others will say "see, we were in the mix and competitive".

In the end, the Bucs will be around .500 (a game or 2, maybe 3... over or under), during Mayfield's tenure here in Tampa. There's a chance we'll make the playoffs during that time and most likely be 1 and done. If I had to guess, I'm going to say that we'll be 7-10 next year, 9-8 the following year, and 8-9 in the 3rd. Let's hope Licht and Co (if they're still here), pull the plug on the experiment at this point in time and move on.

Our best chance to be a contender with Mayfield, would be if Licht and Bowles can build a 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs defense in a very short period of time.

I don't agree with this take. If Baker does in fact go back to throwing a ton of interceptions and causing us to lose games then I think a lot of people will be turned off of him completely even if we went 9-8 again and won the division. Simply because we won in spite of Baker.

The offenses will be similar. Unlike Canales we will be using motion all the time and from what I read we change alignments to create matchup issues. If his offense is run as he described, good Baker should win us 10 minimum. If good Baker shows up again, all of the "he never had two good seasons in a row" crowd lost the narrative. Now, if good Baker shows up and we only win 8 or 9 wins? How did we only win 8 or 9 games if we have good Baker? Can you think of a way unless we go back to run-run-pass-punt?

[kaimaru]

QBs who have won Superbowls over the past 10 years:

Tom Brady
Patrick Mahomes
Matthew Stafford
Nick Foles
Peyton Manning

Clearly more than 1 way to win a championship.

Yeah, there's 2 and your list proves it. Have an elite defense or QB.

Let's not pretend that Wentz wasn't on an MVP pace (finished 3rd in voting), in 2017 and that Foles was good in the 4 games prior to the NFCCG. Foles did have a 7 TD game and a 27 TD/2 Int season in his career, but overall, you're asking for a miracle and that's with an elite defense and offensive line. Those things are easier to accomplish when your entire QB room makes $6M. Wentz was on his rookie deal, year 2 I believe, making only $1.5M. Foles was at $4M and Sudfeld made league minimum.

Matt Stafford is an above average QB and the Rams had the best defense in the league that year.

Mayfield is below average, like Foles. So, as I said in a prior post, the Bucs need an elite defense to match the 2017 Eagles season AND get lucky... and do that with a QB room making 4x more than the Eagles' that year.

I am curious. Which of these options would you want for the rest of your life?

1. Have no better than an 8-9 record but get a random season where it all comes together and win a Super Bowl every 8-12 years

2. Win 13+ every year. Make it to the NFCC every year but either lose there or in the Super Bowl

[CannonFire]

Yeah, there's 2 and your list proves it. Have an elite defense or QB.

Let's not pretend that Wentz wasn't on an MVP pace (finished 3rd in voting), in 2017 and that Foles was good in the 4 games prior to the NFCCG. Foles did have a 7 TD game and a 27 TD/2 Int season in his career, but overall, you're asking for a miracle and that's with an elite defense and offensive line. Those things are easier to accomplish when your entire QB room makes $6M. Wentz was on his rookie deal, year 2 I believe, making only $1.5M. Foles was at $4M and Sudfeld made league minimum.

Matt Stafford is an above average QB and the Rams had the best defense in the league that year.

Mayfield is below average, like Foles. So, as I said in a prior post, the Bucs need an elite defense to match the 2017 Eagles season AND get lucky... and do that with a QB room making 4x more than the Eagles' that year.

I am curious. Which of these options would you want for the rest of your life?

1. Have no better than an 8-9 record but get a random season where it all comes together and win a Super Bowl every 8-12 years

2. Win 13+ every year. Make it to the NFCC every year but either lose there or in the Super Bowl

Since you're giving me a hypothetical of 2 things that have never happened... to where they'll happen every year, let me ask you this question. In your scenario's, do I know that both will come about or will it always be wait and see? If I know that once every 8 to 12 years my team will win a Super Bowl, I'll take that option...but if I don't know that'll happen, I'll take Option 2 as I know each year I'll have a great team to root for with hope that we'll win. In option 1, I just ignore the whole season and wait for the playoffs. What's exciting about that?

[CannonFire]

I think the inevitable conclusion is that we'll all be right, but from 2 different perspectives. Next year, they can go 8-9 and some of us will say, "see, he's an average QB and we finished with an average record", while others will say "see, we were in the mix and competitive".

In the end, the Bucs will be around .500 (a game or 2, maybe 3... over or under), during Mayfield's tenure here in Tampa. There's a chance we'll make the playoffs during that time and most likely be 1 and done. If I had to guess, I'm going to say that we'll be 7-10 next year, 9-8 the following year, and 8-9 in the 3rd. Let's hope Licht and Co (if they're still here), pull the plug on the experiment at this point in time and move on.

Our best chance to be a contender with Mayfield, would be if Licht and Bowles can build a 1985 Bears/2000 Ravens/2002 Bucs defense in a very short period of time.

I don't agree with this take. If Baker does in fact go back to throwing a ton of interceptions and causing us to lose games then I think a lot of people will be turned off of him completely even if we went 9-8 again and won the division. Simply because we won in spite of Baker.

The offenses will be similar. Unlike Canales we will be using motion all the time and from what I read we change alignments to create matchup issues. If his offense is run as he described, good Baker should win us 10 minimum. If good Baker shows up again, all of the "he never had two good seasons in a row" crowd lost the narrative. Now, if good Baker shows up and we only win 8 or 9 wins? How did we only win 8 or 9 games if we have good Baker? Can you think of a way unless we go back to run-run-pass-punt?

Who said Mayfield had to be a Int machine? In 2020 and 2021, he had his best years in Cleveland, statistically inline with last year, and he threw 8 Int's one year and 13 the next... 13 isn't "terrible". It's not good, but it's not the end of the world. I mean, he threw 10 this year. I think your logic is faulty about people being turned off completely by him. We won 9 games this past year, in spite of him... we were 20th in offensive ppg. Having a top 7 defense in scoring does that for teams.

I don't think the offense is an issue. I think Mayfield is what he is. A mediocre to below average QB who can utilize some of his weapons... extend some plays, but hold the ball too long and make as many bad throws as good ones. In the end, the offense was "meh". The issue is that next year looks to be a harder schedule that this year. If he puts up the exact same numbers next as this past year, but we play a harder schedule, that alone could be enough for us to be a 7 or 8 win team.

We barely beat a horrible Carolina team... twice. We lost to a bleh Atlanta team and New Orleans team once each. We had no real signature wins last year. Maybe Green Bay, but even they were a 9-8 team. Even Jacksonville was a "meh" team. Every good team we played, we got smoked. I don't really know where yours or anyone's confidence in Mayfield comes from honestly. Maybe because he's a great dude. He's very likeable and personable and says the things you want to hear. I honestly like him, I do. But on the field, when the clock is running? He's "meh". Nothing more, nothing less.

[Grahamburn]

Definitely did not get smoked in the playoffs.

[CannonFire]

Definitely did not get smoked in the playoffs.

That's true. We did beat a team who quit on their coach about 2 months prior and lost by 8 in the next one... too bad some random dude threw a pick at the end there, huh? To be fair, we only had 2 minutes to start that drive.

[kaimaru]

I am curious. Which of these options would you want for the rest of your life?

1. Have no better than an 8-9 record but get a random season where it all comes together and win a Super Bowl every 8-12 years

2. Win 13+ every year. Make it to the NFCC every year but either lose there or in the Super Bowl

Since you're giving me a hypothetical of 2 things that have never happened... to where they'll happen every year, let me ask you this question. In your scenario's, do I know that both will come about or will it always be wait and see? If I know that once every 8 to 12 years my team will win a Super Bowl, I'll take that option...but if I don't know that'll happen, I'll take Option 2 as I know each year I'll have a great team to root for with hope that we'll win. In option 1, I just ignore the whole season and wait for the playoffs. What's exciting about that?

If you didn't know. On your death bed would you feel more happy about having a mediocre team that somehow overcame a franchise curse to win Super Bowls every more or less decade, or be competitive every year and somehow never winning it all. So no, you don't know how each season will go. I am curious because you seem to have this Super Bowl or bust mentality and I am wonder how far that goes

[kaimaru]

I don't agree with this take. If Baker does in fact go back to throwing a ton of interceptions and causing us to lose games then I think a lot of people will be turned off of him completely even if we went 9-8 again and won the division. Simply because we won in spite of Baker.

The offenses will be similar. Unlike Canales we will be using motion all the time and from what I read we change alignments to create matchup issues. If his offense is run as he described, good Baker should win us 10 minimum. If good Baker shows up again, all of the "he never had two good seasons in a row" crowd lost the narrative. Now, if good Baker shows up and we only win 8 or 9 wins? How did we only win 8 or 9 games if we have good Baker? Can you think of a way unless we go back to run-run-pass-punt?

Who said Mayfield had to be a Int machine? In 2020 and 2021, he had his best years in Cleveland, statistically inline with last year, and he threw 8 Int's one year and 13 the next... 13 isn't "terrible". It's not good, but it's not the end of the world. I mean, he threw 10 this year. I think your logic is faulty about people being turned off completely by him. We won 9 games this past year, in spite of him... we were 20th in offensive ppg. Having a top 7 defense in scoring does that for teams.

I don't think the offense is an issue. I think Mayfield is what he is. A mediocre to below average QB who can utilize some of his weapons... extend some plays, but hold the ball too long and make as many bad throws as good ones. In the end, the offense was "meh". The issue is that next year looks to be a harder schedule that this year. If he puts up the exact same numbers next as this past year, but we play a harder schedule, that alone could be enough for us to be a 7 or 8 win team.

We barely beat a horrible Carolina team... twice. We lost to a bleh Atlanta team and New Orleans team once each. We had no real signature wins last year. Maybe Green Bay, but even they were a 9-8 team. Even Jacksonville was a "meh" team. Every good team we played, we got smoked. I don't really know where yours or anyone's confidence in Mayfield comes from honestly. Maybe because he's a great dude. He's very likeable and personable and says the things you want to hear. I honestly like him, I do. But on the field, when the clock is running? He's "meh". Nothing more, nothing less.

You constantly said he never had two statistically good seasons in a row as a reason he isn't a good QB. Don't walk that back now. You say the schedule next year is harder. I said if he wins 10 games does not show he is a decent QB? If not then, tell me what would change your mind on Baker?

[acmillis]

Who said Mayfield had to be a Int machine? In 2020 and 2021, he had his best years in Cleveland, statistically inline with last year, and he threw 8 Int's one year and 13 the next... 13 isn't "terrible". It's not good, but it's not the end of the world. I mean, he threw 10 this year. I think your logic is faulty about people being turned off completely by him. We won 9 games this past year, in spite of him... we were 20th in offensive ppg. Having a top 7 defense in scoring does that for teams.

I don't think the offense is an issue. I think Mayfield is what he is. A mediocre to below average QB who can utilize some of his weapons... extend some plays, but hold the ball too long and make as many bad throws as good ones. In the end, the offense was "meh". The issue is that next year looks to be a harder schedule that this year. If he puts up the exact same numbers next as this past year, but we play a harder schedule, that alone could be enough for us to be a 7 or 8 win team.

We barely beat a horrible Carolina team... twice. We lost to a bleh Atlanta team and New Orleans team once each. We had no real signature wins last year. Maybe Green Bay, but even they were a 9-8 team. Even Jacksonville was a "meh" team. Every good team we played, we got smoked. I don't really know where yours or anyone's confidence in Mayfield comes from honestly. Maybe because he's a great dude. He's very likeable and personable and says the things you want to hear. I honestly like him, I do. But on the field, when the clock is running? He's "meh". Nothing more, nothing less.

You constantly said he never had two statistically good seasons in a row as a reason he isn't a good QB. Don't walk that back now. You say the schedule next year is harder. I said if he wins 10 games does not show he is a decent QB? If not then, tell me what would change your mind on Baker?

A quarterback can, quite literally, play horrible, and still, the team can be decent (10+wins).

2009, Team X went 9-7 and made it to the AFC championship game while the QB completed 53.8% for 2,444 yards, 12 TD and 20 INT.
2010, same team went 11-5, again made it to the AFC Championship game while that same QB completed 54.8% for 3,291 yards, 17 TD, 13 INT.
I'm the one that said Baker has never had back-to-back even decent seasons...and that is the truth.

[CannonFire]

Since you're giving me a hypothetical of 2 things that have never happened... to where they'll happen every year, let me ask you this question. In your scenario's, do I know that both will come about or will it always be wait and see? If I know that once every 8 to 12 years my team will win a Super Bowl, I'll take that option...but if I don't know that'll happen, I'll take Option 2 as I know each year I'll have a great team to root for with hope that we'll win. In option 1, I just ignore the whole season and wait for the playoffs. What's exciting about that?

If you didn't know. On your death bed would you feel more happy about having a mediocre team that somehow overcame a franchise curse to win Super Bowls every more or less decade, or be competitive every year and somehow never winning it all. So no, you don't know how each season will go. I am curious because you seem to have this Super Bowl or bust mentality and I am wonder how far that goes

See, that's where you're wrong. I don't have a Super Bowl or bust mentality and the post you just responded to, proved that. I said that I'd take your option 2. I said that because I want to root for a team every week that is a championship contender, whether they win it or not, because that makes the season fun. If you're ok with option 1, then you're ok rooting for a mediocre team that you hope gets lucky and cashes in on a miracle. That's not very fun week in and week out. In fact, it's quite frustrating. I can't imagine why anyone would want that.

[CannonFire]

Who said Mayfield had to be a Int machine? In 2020 and 2021, he had his best years in Cleveland, statistically inline with last year, and he threw 8 Int's one year and 13 the next... 13 isn't "terrible". It's not good, but it's not the end of the world. I mean, he threw 10 this year. I think your logic is faulty about people being turned off completely by him. We won 9 games this past year, in spite of him... we were 20th in offensive ppg. Having a top 7 defense in scoring does that for teams.

I don't think the offense is an issue. I think Mayfield is what he is. A mediocre to below average QB who can utilize some of his weapons... extend some plays, but hold the ball too long and make as many bad throws as good ones. In the end, the offense was "meh". The issue is that next year looks to be a harder schedule that this year. If he puts up the exact same numbers next as this past year, but we play a harder schedule, that alone could be enough for us to be a 7 or 8 win team.

We barely beat a horrible Carolina team... twice. We lost to a bleh Atlanta team and New Orleans team once each. We had no real signature wins last year. Maybe Green Bay, but even they were a 9-8 team. Even Jacksonville was a "meh" team. Every good team we played, we got smoked. I don't really know where yours or anyone's confidence in Mayfield comes from honestly. Maybe because he's a great dude. He's very likeable and personable and says the things you want to hear. I honestly like him, I do. But on the field, when the clock is running? He's "meh". Nothing more, nothing less.

You constantly said he never had two statistically good seasons in a row as a reason he isn't a good QB. Don't walk that back now. You say the schedule next year is harder. I said if he wins 10 games does not show he is a decent QB? If not then, tell me what would change your mind on Baker?

Who's walking anything back? He never did have two good seasons in a row. His 2021 season was a regression from 2020. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that his next season would statistically be like this past one. Again, not walking anything back as I don't think 2023 was a particularly good season. By every metric, he was "average". Now, this may come as a shock to you, but "average" and "good" are not synonyms.

What's your definition of "decent QB"? I mean, "decent" means "satisfactory". That's not the same as "good", it means "meh"/"good enough", as in "average". If you have a student who grades as "satisfactory", he's a "C" student... that's average. So, if Mayfield shows he's a "decent QB", why would I have to change my mind? I've always say he was average to below average. I give him credit as being average. He proves I'm right.

This team has talent to win 10 games, actually more. It's Mayfield being average which makes them, well average.

I find it funny that if Mayfield meets your standards ONE time, I'm supposed to change my opinion of him. Yet, he's met my standards SIX times, and you still won't change your opinion of him.

[CannonFire]

You constantly said he never had two statistically good seasons in a row as a reason he isn't a good QB. Don't walk that back now. You say the schedule next year is harder. I said if he wins 10 games does not show he is a decent QB? If not then, tell me what would change your mind on Baker?

A quarterback can, quite literally, play horrible, and still, the team can be decent (10+wins).

2009, Team X went 9-7 and made it to the AFC championship game while the QB completed 53.8% for 2,444 yards, 12 TD and 20 INT.
2010, same team went 11-5, again made it to the AFC Championship game while that same QB completed 54.8% for 3,291 yards, 17 TD, 13 INT.
I'm the one that said Baker has never had back-to-back even decent seasons...and that is the truth.

Exactly

In 2011, Houston won 10 games, won their division, and a playoff game. Their QB's totaled 3700 yards, 20 TD's and 9 Int's. The following year, they won 12 games and their QB threw for 4000, 22 TD, and 12 TD. Yeah, the Bucs played 1 more game, but Mayfield's numbers were 4000, 28 & 10. You know what's funny? The year after that, they didn't have their 1400 yard rusher, Schaub was still Shaub, the team stunk and he wasn't brought back the following season.

Teddy Bridgewater was "meh" in 2015, they won 11 games (and their division). That same year, Manning sucked and the Broncos won the Super Bowl. In 2017, Case Keenum and the Vikings went to the NFC Championship game.

Yeah, teams can win a lot of games and get far into the playoffs, without their QB being "decent", whatever that meant. None of those teams were anxious to get that guy back the following year though.

[Grahamburn]

Baker put up this season with the worst rushing offense in the NFL.

So, what are you trying to say?

[Onthebrink]

This entire thread can be summed up as follows. One group believes that Baker is far better than he actually is. The other group thinks that he is far worse than he actually is.

[Grahamburn]

This entire thread can be summed up as follows. One group believes that Baker is far better than he actually is. The other group thinks that he is far worse than he actually is.

Or that we’re all actually pretty close on his abilities and know what kind of player he is, however some believe you can win with him and others want what’s behind door #2 in spite of not knowing what kind of player they are.

[Babeinbucland]

And some of us think he has the ability to improve and the pieces are in place to make that happen

[CannonFire]

Baker put up this season with the worst rushing offense in the NFL.

So, what are you trying to say?

That Mayfield can put up another mediocre season and the team can win more games despite that, if they improves the OLine and the net result being a better run game. Thus giving more evidence that we have a good team with a mediocre QB.

[CannonFire]

This entire thread can be summed up as follows. One group believes that Baker is far better than he actually is. The other group thinks that he is far worse than he actually is.

My point is that Baker Mayfield is a mediocre to below average QB who from time to time can have really good games. He's not a terrible QB, he's just a backend league starter. He's a guy that won't screw things up. You can win with him IF...IF...IF you build a great team around him. That's best accomplished if he's only making $15M to $20M annually. If you pay him $30M+, then you're limiting your teams financial flexibility to build a better team around him.

This team needs to address the OLine with a FA and a draft pick. They need to re-sign Evans, Winfield, AND David, and that's at a minimum. We're $50M under the cap. If Mayfield gets signed for $10M+ more than what his value is (as per his talent), then you're either limiting who you can add to the roster or pushing the cap can down the road. Pick your poison.

When you push the cap can down the road, you better make sure you're not screwing yourself. Here's the thing, if someone important who's expensive gets hurt, you don't have a QB who can reduce the damage. You'll have to replace that player with an equal value player, and at a cost. When you don't have that available money, then you have to push more money down the road. Eventually, that will bite you in the butt. If you don't overpay your backend starter, then you have more money to address your depth in case someone goes down.

[Buc2]

At this point, the argument needs to just be put on hold. You arguers should just bookmark this thread so you come back at the end of next season for all the "I told you so," posts. I mean, there really isn't anything else y'all need to say that hasn't already been said ad nauseum. You're just repeating yourselves at this point.

[acmillis]

At this point, the argument needs to just be put on hold. You arguers should just bookmark this thread so you come back at the end of next season for all the "I told you so," posts. I mean, there really isn't anything else y'all need to say that hasn't already been said ad nauseum. You're just repeating yourselves at this point.

I can agree with that.

Let's make a deal (not really, but you know...) anybody who mentions Baker prior to July, 2024 has to donate $1 each mention of his name to their favorite charity.

BucZone 'bout to help out a lot of kids/animals/homeless/you name it!