The inevitable Devin White holdout?

[Grahamburn]

Frankly, I don't like this from White. He's stated that he wants to be the top paid linebacker in the league, which would be north of $20 million a year, which he hasn't earned. And if he doesn't get that money, he wants to be traded someplace else.

That's me-first behavior, top to bottom, and more than a little unreasonable. If Devin wants to hold out indefinitely because he thinks his $11 million this season ain't enough, that's fine. Let him.

As far as trades, if I were the Bucs brass I would answer the phone if a team called asking about Devin but I wouldn't make calls myself. It's well known he wants out, let the buyers come to me.

Don't kid yourself, Cheb. This is a me-first league and you know it. Players better be me-first because the organization damn sure isn't gonna look out for them.

I'll never fault a player for wanting to get as much as they can while they can. Bowles' comments about his value sends a different message also. Gives White ammo at the negotiating table.

Good grief. No it doesn’t. They all said a bunch of positive things about Baker Mayfield too and he’s making $4M plus incentives. You think he should hold out for more because Licht called him a “warrior?!”

[Doctor]

Yeah, I don't think "well you said nice things about him Tuesday, that's going to be an extra $5M" is a thing.

These guys are negotiating what they are negotiating and it's very much outside of our view. We *think* we know, based on old comments here and chatter there, but we really have no idea. Look at the Lamar situation. Clearly, there was a number both were okay with, but we spent months hearing different numbers put out by both sides. Not to mention how quickly so many turned on Lamar for "not being worth whatever he's asking for", being "greedy" and "me first" and "not caring about the team" and everything else we hear when a player tries to leverage the very few tools he has left to him when at the negotiating table.

At the end of the day, we like to pretend to know way more about what's happening in rooms we're not in.

Just like the Lamar situation (and pretty much 99% of negotiations/holdouts) this will likely resolve itself and they'll work something out that neither is too happy about. That is how the "messy business side" of the sport works.

[Cheb]

Frankly, I don't like this from White. He's stated that he wants to be the top paid linebacker in the league, which would be north of $20 million a year, which he hasn't earned. And if he doesn't get that money, he wants to be traded someplace else.

That's me-first behavior, top to bottom, and more than a little unreasonable. If Devin wants to hold out indefinitely because he thinks his $11 million this season ain't enough, that's fine. Let him.

As far as trades, if I were the Bucs brass I would answer the phone if a team called asking about Devin but I wouldn't make calls myself. It's well known he wants out, let the buyers come to me.

Don't kid yourself, Cheb. This is a me-first league and you know it. Players better be me-first because the organization damn sure isn't gonna look out for them.

I'll never fault a player for wanting to get as much as they can while they can. Bowles' comments about his value sends a different message also. Gives White ammo at the negotiating table.

Devin White is already making a top-10 salary for his position. It isn't like he's a UDFA who has outplayed his worth with Pro Bowl play and is unanimously considered to be underpaid. Dude's just greedy.

[Bootz]

Don't kid yourself, Cheb. This is a me-first league and you know it. Players better be me-first because the organization damn sure isn't gonna look out for them.

I'll never fault a player for wanting to get as much as they can while they can. Bowles' comments about his value sends a different message also. Gives White ammo at the negotiating table.

Devin White is already making a top-10 salary for his position. It isn't like he's a UDFA who has outplayed his worth with Pro Bowl play and is unanimously considered to be underpaid. Dude's just greedy.

In a league where billionaires get tax payer dollars to build and upkeep their stadiums we're calling a player who wants to get a long term deal worth his value "greedy".

The elite will always be protected.

[Deja Entendu]

Devin White is already making a top-10 salary for his position. It isn't like he's a UDFA who has outplayed his worth with Pro Bowl play and is unanimously considered to be underpaid. Dude's just greedy.

In a league where billionaires get tax payer dollars to build and upkeep their stadiums we're calling a player who wants to get a long term deal worth his value "greedy".

The elite will always be protected.

“His value” is the question.

Do you personally think the Bucs should pay him $20+mil per year?

[MJW]

Yeah, I don't think "well you said nice things about him Tuesday, that's going to be an extra $5M" is a thing.

I think that sending a public message that a guy is irreplaceable right before sitting down at the negotiating table with him is less than ideal. It's that simple? The Giants GM spoke about Saquan today and basically said, 'He's a great player but we have to work out a deal that works for both of us.' Contrast that with Todd Bowles's 'Devin White is what would happen if Jesus played football and I'll kill myself if he ever leaves' level of public toadying with White.

At the end of the day, we like to pretend to know way more about what's happening in rooms we're not in.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! I thought I'd have to wait until a Mississippi elementary school's special needs resource class had a "Write the tritest, most banal fortune cookie possible about the internet" contest to hear that level of wisdom. Thank you.

[Snake]

Devin White is already making a top-10 salary for his position. It isn't like he's a UDFA who has outplayed his worth with Pro Bowl play and is unanimously considered to be underpaid. Dude's just greedy.

In a league where billionaires get tax payer dollars to build and upkeep their stadiums we're calling a player who wants to get a long term deal worth his value "greedy".

The elite will always be protected.

The players are greedy, the owners are greedy. There are probably some exceptions amongst both groups, but it’s the minority.

In the walled garden known as the “32 team NFL with a salary cap,” I would prefer my team not overpay a player. Because that’s what we’re talking about. Not the macroeconomics of owners exploiting cities, and corrupt city councilmen.

[MJW]

In a league where billionaires get tax payer dollars to build and upkeep their stadiums we're calling a player who wants to get a long term deal worth his value "greedy".

The elite will always be protected.

The players are greedy, the owners are greedy.

In the walled garden known as the “32 team NFL with a salary cap,” I would prefer my team not overpay a player.

Because that’s what we’re talking about. Not the macro economics of owners exploiting teams, and corrupt city councilmen.

I don't care about money. The billionaire's money, the millionaire's money. It's none of my business.

I care about allocating resources in the most effective way possible to construct a successful roster.

Giving Devin White $11 Mil this year is bad math for me, made only barely tolerable because of it's a one year deal basically. Coach Toilet Bowles - who will be someone's DC this time next year - locking him in here for 3-4 years at $20 Mil APY is nauseating.

[Bootz]

In a league where billionaires get tax payer dollars to build and upkeep their stadiums we're calling a player who wants to get a long term deal worth his value "greedy".

The elite will always be protected.

The players are greedy, the owners are greedy. There are probably some exceptions amongst both groups, but it’s the minority.

In the walled garden known as the “32 team NFL with a salary cap,” I would prefer my team not overpay a player. Because that’s what we’re talking about. Not the macroeconomics of owners exploiting cities, and corrupt city councilmen.

PLEASE!!! Don't pretend to make this about the salary cap because you and I both know that's bullshit. If we extended DW we'd quite literally SAVE MILLIONS ON THE CAP THIS YEAR. So don't pretend you have some new found love for being fiscally responsible.

Do better than that. Even you of all people are better.

[Snake]

The players are greedy, the owners are greedy. There are probably some exceptions amongst both groups, but it’s the minority.

In the walled garden known as the “32 team NFL with a salary cap,” I would prefer my team not overpay a player. Because that’s what we’re talking about. Not the macroeconomics of owners exploiting cities, and corrupt city councilmen.

PLEASE!!! Don't pretend to make this about the salary cap because you and I both know that's bullshit. If we extended DW we'd quite literally SAVE MILLIONS ON THE CAP THIS YEAR. So don't pretend you have some new found love for being fiscally responsible.

Do better than that. Even you of all people are better.

Who cares about saving cap this year? I don’t. It’s a lost year. I care about the next 4 years and not paying DW top ILB cash.

[mdb1958]

I care about allocating resources in the most effective way possible to construct a successful roster.

wisdom

[Bootz]

PLEASE!!! Don't pretend to make this about the salary cap because you and I both know that's bullshit. If we extended DW we'd quite literally SAVE MILLIONS ON THE CAP THIS YEAR. So don't pretend you have some new found love for being fiscally responsible.

Do better than that. Even you of all people are better.

Who cares about saving cap this year? I don’t. It’s a lost year. I care about the next 4 years and not paying DW top ILB cash.

Yea that's what really gonna break this team

You're much more fun when you don't try so hard to play dumb.

[mdb1958]

I'm not against arbitration.

[Bootz]

I'm not against arbitration.

This ain't baseball.

[mdb1958]

I'm not against arbitration.

This ain't baseball.

negotiation

[Doctor]

Clearly, this is a triggering topic for you MJW so I'll put it as plainly and nicely as I can.

You're awful at judging the allocation of resources. Like really bad. If it was up to you we wouldn't have gotten Gronk or Lenny and we'd still be sitting with one Lombardi. Your judge of talent is also really weak. And today you're a master negotiator.

You've had a hate boner out for White ever since we drafted him over your precious Josh Allen and his whopping 17 sacks over the last 3 years. FYI, White has 18. You consistently miss the forest for the trees and you're stuck in a loser mentality of reset, reset, reset. I get it, you've been a fan of this team a long time and that comes with a hell of PTSD. But it's okay. Because when the season starts and White wins yet another DPOW award (you know, for having the best defensive performance of any player in the league that weekend yet again) you're just going to have to sit there and eat it.

[Al Bundy]

Because when the season starts and White wins yet another DPOW award

This will not happen.

[Central_Buc]

I'm optimistic things will work out, I believe we have strong leadership in our organization to smooth things out.

But That said, I'm ok either way. If we get off to a poor start (is the trade deadline week 8 now?) Then perhaps we move him then.

[Grahamburn]

Yeah, I don't think "well you said nice things about him Tuesday, that's going to be an extra $5M" is a thing.

I think that sending a public message that a guy is irreplaceable right before sitting down at the negotiating table with him is less than ideal. It's that simple? The Giants GM spoke about Saquan today and basically said, 'He's a great player but we have to work out a deal that works for both of us.' Contrast that with Todd Bowles's 'Devin White is what would happen if Jesus played football and I'll kill myself if he ever leaves' level of public toadying with White.

At the end of the day, we like to pretend to know way more about what's happening in rooms we're not in.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! I thought I'd have to wait until a Mississippi elementary school's special needs resource class had a "Write the tritest, most banal fortune cookie possible about the internet" contest to hear that level of wisdom. Thank you.

Does anyone have any links to these Bowles quotes on White?

There's this barn burner:

“We got him on board another year like Jason (Licht) said,” Bowles said. “We discussed it. We know we’re not trading him and we’ll go from there. We know it’s the offseason right now so nothing counts and we’re expecting him to be there when the season starts.“

This one after they should have given the Falcons' game away and White said they "got bored:"

"I think guys are living off the Super Bowl [and] are living in a fantasy land," Bowles said after the game. "You gotta get your hands dirty and go to work like everybody else. And we've been working hard, but we've gotta work harder. Nobody's going to give us anything or feel sorry [for us]... "The time for talking is over. You've either gotta put up or shut up."

[Grahamburn]

Where did Bowles ever say he's "irreplaceable?"

Money talks, and they haven't signed him to an extension. That's all we need to know about the negotiating table. There isn't one for Devin right now, and that should make everyone that doesn't like him (or his play) happy. I would think?

[Buc2]

Devin White is already making a top-10 salary for his position. It isn't like he's a UDFA who has outplayed his worth with Pro Bowl play and is unanimously considered to be underpaid. Dude's just greedy.

In a league where billionaires get tax payer dollars to build and upkeep their stadiums we're calling a player who wants to get a long term deal worth his value "greedy".

The elite will always be protected.

Ah, therein lies the rub. What is his value? He says $20M+. Management says it's a lot less. Who's right? Most likely, neither side. That's usually when some compromise is reached. If not, then both sides move on without each other. It really is that simple. It's a dynamic that plays out all over the world in nearly every industry. Most self-confident people think they're worth more than they're paid. It's human nature. It's not about how much the boss makes. We have no control over that.

[kaimaru]

Where did Bowles ever say he's "irreplaceable?"

Money talks, and they haven't signed him to an extension. That's all we need to know about the negotiating table. There isn't one for Devin right now, and that should make everyone that doesn't like him (or his play) happy. I would think?

I was thinking the same thing. I remember Bowles this offseason saying White knows where he needs to improve. Never has he acted like DW was Ray Lewis.

[Nobody]

@Grahamburn @kaimaru

If I had to wager a guess, folks are probably invoking these comments made when Coach Bowles was asked about White after he made those cryptic social media posts in March that were prologue to all of this:

“Devin takes a lot of heat for some things – everybody judges the missed tackles – but he makes tackles that I haven’t seen linebackers make in 30 years,” Bowles said. “He can make plays for us. He is still one of our best two players on defense. I have a lot of faith in him. His growth mentally understanding the system – and it’s not an easy system – has been outstanding. I think the world of the guy. I think he is a heck of a ballplayer and I think this will probably be one of his better seasons.”

[mdb1958]

Even simpler than that is which ILB runs out of gas first.

[mdb1958]

If one runs out of gas and one wont back down from 20 mil a year - I'll miss them both.

[kaimaru]

@Nobody Thanks

[Grahamburn]

@Grahamburn @kaimaru

If I had to wager a guess, folks are probably invoking these comments made when Coach Bowles was asked about White after he made those cryptic social media posts in March that were prologue to all of this:

“Devin takes a lot of heat for some things – everybody judges the missed tackles – but he makes tackles that I haven’t seen linebackers make in 30 years,” Bowles said. “He can make plays for us. He is still one of our best two players on defense. I have a lot of faith in him. His growth mentally understanding the system – and it’s not an easy system – has been outstanding. I think the world of the guy. I think he is a heck of a ballplayer and I think this will probably be one of his better seasons.”

And that’s fine. Acknowledgement. Words of affirmation to the media. We don’t know what’s said behind closed doors when the tape is on.

In any case those words clearly have no bearing on a Devin White extension considering he’s “fed up” with the organization.

[Doctor]

"You see we haven't said nothing nice about you to the media in months. You have no choice but to meet our terms now."

[Four Verticals]

@Grahamburn @kaimaru

If I had to wager a guess, folks are probably invoking these comments made when Coach Bowles was asked about White after he made those cryptic social media posts in March that were prologue to all of this:

“Devin takes a lot of heat for some things – everybody judges the missed tackles – but he makes tackles that I haven’t seen linebackers make in 30 years,” Bowles said. “He can make plays for us. He is still one of our best two players on defense. I have a lot of faith in him. His growth mentally understanding the system – and it’s not an easy system – has been outstanding. I think the world of the guy. I think he is a heck of a ballplayer and I think this will probably be one of his better seasons.”

And that’s fine. Acknowledgement. Words of affirmation to the media. We don’t know what’s said behind closed doors when the tape is on.

In any case those words clearly have no bearing on a Devin White extension considering he’s “fed up” with the organization.

I'll take a wild guess that there's a dollar figure which would make White not fed up with the organization and Bowles finding White quite replaceable. That number is likely not the same.

[Grahamburn]

And that’s fine. Acknowledgement. Words of affirmation to the media. We don’t know what’s said behind closed doors when the tape is on.

In any case those words clearly have no bearing on a Devin White extension considering he’s “fed up” with the organization.

I'll take a wild guess that there's a dollar figure which would make White not fed up with the organization and Bowles finding White quite replaceable. That number is likely not the same.

You listen to their words and it’s a pretty consistent “this year” situation. They want to see more from him and have told him/his agent as much. Devin decided to pout about it.

[Grahamburn]

And that’s fine. Acknowledgement. Words of affirmation to the media. We don’t know what’s said behind closed doors when the tape is on.

In any case those words clearly have no bearing on a Devin White extension considering he’s “fed up” with the organization.

I'll take a wild guess that there's a dollar figure which would make White not fed up with the organization and Bowles finding White quite replaceable. That number is likely not the same.

You listen to their words and it’s a pretty consistent “this year” situation. They want to see more from him and have told him/his agent as much. Devin decided to pout about it.