Doctor wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:47 pm
Setting aside your wild accusation of misogyny for a minute, at no point did I say MJW is not a fan of the team. She's one of my all time favorite posters and I hope she knows that by now.
With that said she, like others, has a tendency to go full Chicken Little that devolves to just trashing. Football has left the building until we reset.
Being fans of a historically losing team ain't easy. Worse they've become so obsessed with the dream of cleaning house, getting a new hot shot HC who drafts himself the next HoF QB first overall. Sure, it's a rare pipedream that only happens once every 20 years, but they are convinced they are due. How many times did we think it was our time? Doug, Vinny, Steve*, Trent, Josh, Jameis, only to be denied and worse see THREE of them win Super Bowls with other teams. It's cruel. Worse still we got to witness the greatest outlier of all time for 20 years in Brady and BB.
So here we stand, once again banging the drum to clean house and "reset". Take another shot at the dream.
Every thread:
"Good signing, we needed depth there"
"For what? Losing?"
"This is going to be a fierce battle in TC"
"They're all trash and we're going to suck"
"I loved this kids tape but these things concern me"
"Doesn't matter Toilet face won't know what to do with him"
And I get it. I'd love to be in the Bengals shoes. I would. But that's not the only way to win chips in this league. Given how we won ours you'd think this would have set in by now but it hasn't. So any attempt at giving it an honest go is attacked.
Do I feel great about our chances this year? Not really. I'll never feel as good as 2020 again. But about as good as the early Dungy years, where we went .500 over the first 3 seasons- what MJW was described as "the worst of all sins". And like Dungy I'd like to see this play out a lot more, especially given the defense that has been built here. We have great DBs at the top, 3 all-pro LBs, a star DT, and a couple of project first rounders due to break out.
But no, unless you're wasting 4 years on a Freeman/Winston rookie hero project, you better be tanking and demanding everyone's head.
We've literally gone back and forth 20 times and you still don't understand the argument you're arguing with.
In it's most basic form, here is my thought process. I can't speak for anyone but me, but here's mine. Are you ready?
1) The point of the exercise is to win Titles as soon as possible. Any other arguments about "goals" are meaningless to me unless there's a hell of case to be made achieving those goals means helping realize a Superbowl in the future. But honestly, I'm probably not buying. When people talk to me about "sustained competitiveness" or whatever I cringe. If you're not going to be etched in history, who cares? When's the last time anyone talked about some team that never won the big one but won 9-10 games every year and a few playoff games? Who. Cares? This is a zero sum game. The door prize for being good for a long time is making an NFL Network Top Ten about disappointing teams. You're going to tell me that's fundamentally more rewarding than winning 3 games? All that changes is you make a different NFL Network list.
If you want to look at football as a gosh darn fun thing to watch when it's a jolly good sunday of competitive play, etc, that's fine. But don't try to sell me on that. Raheem's team in 2011 won like 5 games. Schiano's team in 2012 won 7. I think the 2013 team won 4 or 5. When's the last time you talked about how much more successful the 2012 team was than the 2011 or 2013 teams? They're all forgotten and shitty. If you had a nice day at Ray Jay watching one of those teams play, great! I don't care!
With me so far?
2) There is no scenario where the 2023 Buccaneers contend for a title. If you believe otherwise, you are smoking meth. No perfect offseason, no perfect draft, no Baker Mayfield resurgence...it was never on the table. We weren't in the same galaxy as teams like the Niners or Eagles or Chiefs last year, with Tom Brady, and with a roster still talented enough to make a run. Miss me with the "Any Given Sunday" delusions. Any Given Sunday, yes. 21 Sundays, the last four against the best in the league? No.
3) See Point #1 - we cannot win a title this year, so the "Win A Title ASAP" goal becomes " Win A Title in the soonest possible future season." Which is another way of saying, THIS season should be devoted to maximizing our ability to do just that.
4) You can talk about nebulous terms like "momentum" if you wish. I believe in tangible resources.
5) As there is no competing for a title this year, the best use of this time (2023) is maximizing those resources for future seasons when competing for a title is feasible.
6) The resources in question -
a) Reps/Playing Time
b) Cap Space
c) Draft Capital
Each one can be maximized for when that window can be opened. Reps and Playing Time should go to younger, developing players who could play a role in that open window. This is why I wouldn't sign older free agents now, or mediocre players who will serve to take reps from players who might develop.
Cap space can be maximized by avoiding future cap commitments for players who will not be around for when that window opens, and avoiding dead cap hits. Also, structuring contracts in such a way to "front load" hits and open up future space.
Draft capital is self-explanatory, though it can also apply to avoiding the urge to address immediate needs on draft day.
7) If you have a front office and/or coaches who are under intense pressure to win right now, and who likely won't be the guys to shepherd in the next window, keeping them means you are now employing people who do not have these goals at the heart of their decisions. This is where I think we find ourselves right now, and it's why we paid a career mediocre like Baker Mayfield.
8) Additionally, the sooner you get in people who believe can be part of our long-term future, the sooner you can begin molding your roster around their vision.
When done correctly, you'll have a Front Office and Coaching staff thinking about Superbowls, not getting to 9-8 to keep their jobs.
You'll have draft capital to build around their vision with affordable rookie contracts.
You'll have the cap room to supplement those players with veterans who fill holes.
You'll have young holdovers from the previous regime who are contract values and who have gotten important developmental time already.
That's it.
It's not about tanking or trying to lose.
It's not about Caleb Williams and Rookie Saviors.
It's not about lightning in a bottle.
It's about having ALL the options possible available to you when people who share your vision want to build something.
I'll take that over any other approach, because every other approach involves things your franchise has no control over. If we could hire an Andy Reid and draft a Patrick Mahomes, I'd take that over meticulous construction. But that's not a plan.