An exercise in love: Bucs sign lamar?

[Digital_Damage]

It's more like 10-12 teams.

Falcons said their out because he missed so many games and has absurd demands.
Panthers say they are out because of his absurd demands.
Lions Say they are out because, they have a QB and because of his absurd demands.
Colts say they are out because of his absurd demands.
Patriots are out... despite a nontalent hack saying they should sign him.
Jets are out because its Rodgers or they are rolling with what they have.
49rs say they are out because of his absurd demands.
Seahawks say they are out because of his absurd demands.
Bucs say they are out because of cap issues.
Commanders say they are out because of his absurd demands.
etc...
etc...

there is a common thread here... no one is handing Al Bundy 200 million after he blows his wheels again...

He is not a top 5, he is not a top 10, he MIGHT be a top 15 now.

He needs to come back to earth. He should have taken that offer the Ravens extended, in hindsight the Ravens dodged a bullet and he squandered a pay day.

[CantonJester]

I think the sober reality for Lamar is, given his contract demands, and what'd cost to even get the right to sign a franchise-altering contract for his services?

He probably ranks around the 20th most desirable QB. If that.

If the Ravens are cold/calculated, they lower their offer and force him to sit out. They won't do that, but there's got to be a way to get that guy earnestly back to the table.

[Four Verticals]

Read today that Lamar has said he doesn't necessarily want a fully guaranteed deal but he wants a deal with more guaranteed money than Watson received.

So 2 #1's and something at or north of $250mil for Jackson.

[MJW]

Jackson seems to be conducting a masterclass in overplaying his hand.

[Digital_Damage]

Read today that Lamar has said he doesn't necessarily want a fully guaranteed deal but he wants a deal with more guaranteed money than Watson received.

So 2 #1's and something at or north of $250mil for Jackson.

LOL, what a doofus.

[Grahamburn]

Clown shoes.

[GreatTimes]

Lamar is only worth what a team is willing and able to pay him. The 2023 salary cap is $225 million. LJ wants $50 million. That only leaves 175 million for a team to pay the rest of the top 51 teammates. Some teams like the Bucs already have a large dead money problem. The vast majority of the teams would have to cut vested players in order to sign LJ, and replace them with low cost players. How good of a team can you filed if one player uses up over 20% of the salary cap? How will his teammates feel that they are getting underpaid because of that one player? This is what all the teams have to consider when evaluating whether or not to make an offer to LJ. That is why no team has made an offer to LJ.

[MJW]

Lamar is only worth what a team is willing and able to pay him. The 2023 salary cap is $225 million. LJ wants $50 million. That only leaves 175 million for a team to pay the rest of the top 51 teammates. Some teams like the Bucs already have a large dead money problem. The vast majority of the teams would have to cut vested players in order to sign LJ, and replace them with low cost players. How good of a team can you filed if one player uses up over 20% of the salary cap? How will his teammates feel that they are getting underpaid because of that one player? This is what all the teams have to consider when evaluating whether or not to make an offer to LJ. That is why no team has made an offer to LJ.

I have no problem devoting that level of resources to a quarterback, but he needs to be a quarterback who makes the other guys - the guys I'm now trying to find at discount prices - better.

Tom Brady was that guy. His greatest accomplishment might have been elevating so many JAGs over the years.

Mahomes is that guy.

I don't think Jackson is that guy. Not only that, I think you have to be SO committed to what he does that you have to reshape your offense to fit him. So now you're committing:

- A huge % of your cap.
- Multiple First Round picks.
- An entire offensive philosophy.

And then you remember that:
- He's now 4 years removed from far and away his best season.
- He's been banged up recently.
- There are at least rumors about his attitude and mindset.
- His style of play will not age well.

It's really not a mystery why he's not getting more attention.

[Selmon Rules]

I think LJ will do well in an offense that allows him to be a QB first, RB second. I believe he can make the passes and only use his legs when routes are covered.

Play him more like a mobile QB than an extension of your running game and he won't take as many hits and rack up injuries

It's a fine line between the two styles but it's possible

[Digital_Damage]

I think LJ will do well in an offense that allows him to be a QB first, RB second. I believe he can make the passes and only use his legs when routes are covered.

Play him more like a mobile QB than an extension of your running game and he won't take as many hits and rack up injuries

It's a fine line between the two styles but it's possible

Ya, that is not him. His pocket mechanics are atrocious. He constantly backs out of the pocket and gets crushed.

[Phantom]

Yup, agreed with Digital. Lamar does that often

[Selmon Rules]

I think LJ will do well in an offense that allows him to be a QB first, RB second. I believe he can make the passes and only use his legs when routes are covered.

Play him more like a mobile QB than an extension of your running game and he won't take as many hits and rack up injuries

It's a fine line between the two styles but it's possible

Ya, that is not him. His pocket mechanics are atrocious. He constantly backs out of the pocket and gets crushed.

You're right in that he is never going to be a traditional QB. I believe he can be more QB than he is presently being used as. Playing in an offense that doesn't ask him to be RB first like he has been in Bal this far is all I'm saying

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time for me

[MJW]

Ya, that is not him. His pocket mechanics are atrocious. He constantly backs out of the pocket and gets crushed.

You're right in that he is never going to be a traditional QB. I believe he can be more QB than he is presently being used as. Playing in an offense that doesn't ask him to be RB first like he has been in Bal this far is all I'm saying

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time for me

I agree, he could probably play in a more traditional offense than the one Greg Roman constructed. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly why they hired Todd Monken, to install such an offense. Which is why, in light of his nonexistent market, I'd ask if I could still get the fully guaranteed 3-133 from the Ravens, provided I can talk to Monken about his plans first.

It would still be the most guaranteed money ever for a contract that short, and it would mean he'd have a shot at another payday at age 29. He should realize by now nobody is giving him the Watson deal.

[Digital_Damage]

You're right in that he is never going to be a traditional QB. I believe he can be more QB than he is presently being used as. Playing in an offense that doesn't ask him to be RB first like he has been in Bal this far is all I'm saying

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time for me

I agree, he could probably play in a more traditional offense than the one Greg Roman constructed. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly why they hired Todd Monken, to install such an offense. Which is why, in light of his nonexistent market, I'd ask if I could still get the fully guaranteed 3-133 from the Ravens, provided I can talk to Monken about his plans first.

It would still be the most guaranteed money ever for a contract that short, and it would mean he'd have a shot at another payday at age 29. He should realize by now nobody is giving him the Watson deal.

Why overpay for a science experiment? If they are going to switch things around find someone that you know will have a better chance of fitting in?

[MJW]

I agree, he could probably play in a more traditional offense than the one Greg Roman constructed. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's exactly why they hired Todd Monken, to install such an offense. Which is why, in light of his nonexistent market, I'd ask if I could still get the fully guaranteed 3-133 from the Ravens, provided I can talk to Monken about his plans first.

It would still be the most guaranteed money ever for a contract that short, and it would mean he'd have a shot at another payday at age 29. He should realize by now nobody is giving him the Watson deal.

Why overpay for a science experiment? If they are going to switch things around find someone that you know will have a better chance of fitting in?

I think "experiment" is a bit strong. I'm not saying they're planning on phasing out the running. But they're probably planning on doing some more traditional and WCO timing type stuff.

Look at it this way: that deal - 3-133 guaranteed - is less than the Vikings have guaranteed Kirk Cousins in recent years. And unlike Jackson, he hasn't sniffed an MVP nor does he present any unique challenges for a defense.

[Buc2]

Lamar is only worth what a team is willing and able to pay him. The 2023 salary cap is $225 million. LJ wants $50 million. That only leaves 175 million for a team to pay the rest of the top 51 teammates. Some teams like the Bucs already have a large dead money problem. The vast majority of the teams would have to cut vested players in order to sign LJ, and replace them with low cost players. How good of a team can you filed if one player uses up over 20% of the salary cap? How will his teammates feel that they are getting underpaid because of that one player? This is what all the teams have to consider when evaluating whether or not to make an offer to LJ. That is why no team has made an offer to LJ.

I have no problem devoting that level of resources to a quarterback, but he needs to be a quarterback who makes the other guys - the guys I'm now trying to find at discount prices - better.

Tom Brady was that guy. His greatest accomplishment might have been elevating so many JAGs over the years.

Mahomes is that guy.

I don't think Jackson is that guy. Not only that, I think you have to be SO committed to what he does that you have to reshape your offense to fit him. So now you're committing:

- A huge % of your cap.
- Multiple First Round picks.
- An entire offensive philosophy.

And then you remember that:
- He's now 4 years removed from far and away his best season.
- He's been banged up recently.
- There are at least rumors about his attitude and mindset.
- His style of play will not age well.

It's really not a mystery why he's not getting more attention.

Haven't you been paying attention? He hasn't received any offers because it's clearly collusion by all the NFL owners. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with the fact he's not worth the asking price. Right, @BucsNBills? Tell, her, man.

[Naismith]

NFL owners have not historically been prudent about paying for QBs.

[Snake]

If Jackson didn’t miss his last two playoff runs due to injury, someone would’ve ponied up already.

[Four Verticals]

Why overpay for a science experiment? If they are going to switch things around find someone that you know will have a better chance of fitting in?

I think "experiment" is a bit strong. I'm not saying they're planning on phasing out the running. But they're probably planning on doing some more traditional and WCO timing type stuff.

Look at it this way: that deal - 3-133 guaranteed - is less than the Vikings have guaranteed Kirk Cousins in recent years. And unlike Jackson, he hasn't sniffed an MVP nor does he present any unique challenges for a defense.

The difference with Cousins is that his guarantee came in stages. I forget what the exact numbers were but the original deal just had guaranteed years added as he moved along. This would be similar to Jackson taking the 3/133 and after year 2 adding another 2 years. This, I think, most teams would be happy to go along with.

[MJW]

I think "experiment" is a bit strong. I'm not saying they're planning on phasing out the running. But they're probably planning on doing some more traditional and WCO timing type stuff.

Look at it this way: that deal - 3-133 guaranteed - is less than the Vikings have guaranteed Kirk Cousins in recent years. And unlike Jackson, he hasn't sniffed an MVP nor does he present any unique challenges for a defense.

The difference with Cousins is that his guarantee came in stages. I forget what the exact numbers were but the original deal just had guaranteed years added as he moved along. This would be similar to Jackson taking the 3/133 and after year 2 adding another 2 years. This, I think, most teams would be happy to go along with.

That's a fair point.

I still think the Ravens reported initial offer is completely reasonable, both in terms of what it costs them, and in terms of the respect it shows Lamar (while also keeping in mind the nature of his game.)

Jackson disagreed, which is his right. But he's finding out the league doesn't agree with his POV.

I understand why other QBs don't want to do this, but everyone would be better off if we just pretended the Watson deal didn't exist. It's the mother of all outliers. The Browns did it in utter desperation after not having a good QB since Bernie Kosar and leadership knowing they were on thin ice. They knew if they didn't make such an insane offer, there's zero chance Watson comes there. It was a huge outlier.

[GreatTimes]

If Lamar Jackson hasn't received any offers by now, there is no reason he will be receiving any offers from any teams. And no, it is not collusion. Most teams already have a QB or have high draft choices to select a QB. LJ's contract demands along with the lost draft choices make it a poor decision by ay team to make an offer anywhere near LJ's contract demands.

[Doctor]

The Watson deal is only an outlier until it's not. That's literally why this is such a big deal.

Every single team that would want Lamar would be better off going after him after the draft, so unspoken collusion/mexican-standoff to all act like they are sleeping on Lamar is likely in play given how the offseason is all smoke and mirrors. We saw it last year with Watson, as long as everyone is acting the part they all play along, but as soon as one makes a legit run they all break the charade and things pick up hella quick.

Things 100% get spicier after the draft where QB needy teams, particularly those with high picks like the Colts and Falcons and those without any like the Fins, get much much better value after Day 1.

[Buc2]

The Watson deal is only an outlier until it's not. That's literally why this is such a big deal.

Every single team that would want Lamar would be better off going after him after the draft, so unspoken collusion/mexican-standoff to all act like they are sleeping on Lamar is likely in play given how the offseason is all smoke and mirrors. We saw it last year with Watson, as long as everyone is acting the part they all play along, but as soon as one makes a legit run they all break the charade and things pick up hella quick.

Things 100% get spicier after the draft where QB needy teams, particularly those with high picks like the Colts and Falcons and those without any like the Fins, get much much better value after Day 1.

The Watson deal will always be an outlier in the year it happened. Sure, eventually that contract won't look so "out there." But not this year.

[Digital_Damage]

The Watson deal is only an outlier until it's not. That's literally why this is such a big deal.

Every single team that would want Lamar would be better off going after him after the draft, so unspoken collusion/mexican-standoff to all act like they are sleeping on Lamar is likely in play given how the offseason is all smoke and mirrors. We saw it last year with Watson, as long as everyone is acting the part they all play along, but as soon as one makes a legit run they all break the charade and things pick up hella quick.

Things 100% get spicier after the draft where QB needy teams, particularly those with high picks like the Colts and Falcons and those without any like the Fins, get much much better value after Day 1.

The Watson deal will always be an outlier in the year it happened. Sure, eventually that contract won't look so "out there." But not this year.

or the next 4-6 years.

The Watson deal was a full retard moment by the Browns.

[Snake]

The Watson deal will always be an outlier in the year it happened. Sure, eventually that contract won't look so "out there." But not this year.

or the next 4-6 years.

The Watson deal was a full retard moment by the Browns.

Yeah, even the talking heads are starting their rumblings about this being an "albatross" contract. Watson needs to have a big rebound season.

[Doctor]

Only because it hasn't paid off yet. It's a copy cat league. Let Watson lead the Browns to 14 wins and you'll see how "totally worth it" it all of the sudden is.

Lamar would easily land $200M guaranteed on the market. Old Wilson got $165M guaranteed. Saying Lamar is $35M isn't crazy. Mahomes has $477M in rolling guarantees.

Some of you are really getting taken in by the pre draft charades.

[Buc2]

Only because it hasn't paid off yet. It's a copy cat league. Let Watson lead the Browns to 14 wins and you'll see how "totally worth it" it all of the sudden is.

Lamar would easily land $200M guaranteed on the market. Old Wilson got $165M guaranteed. Saying Lamar is $35M isn't crazy. Mahomes has $477M in rolling guarantees.

Some of you are really getting taken in by the pre draft charades.

That is a lazy argument. 14 wins isn’t going to erase the stupid off that contract. Multiple SBs probably would but then it becomes a hindsight argument. In the here and now it is a horrid contract.

You’ve really been all about the “if’s” lately and if games are lazy.

[Doctor]

LMAO, what world do you live in?

For one, it just takes a single SB to justify.... well anything.
Second, the NFL has shown us it's absolutely a copy cat league and it doesn't take much. It took one Hester to get Tedd Ginn Jr into the top 10. It took one old QB winning with a new team now everyone is jumping on "all in for that QB". Whether or not it works (Stafford) or doesn't (Wilson) or we'll see (Rodgers) hasn't stopped it from happening.

It takes one $230 QB to turn around a historically losing franchise to get others to jump on the wagon. Watch.

[Digital_Damage]

LMAO, what world do you live in?

For one, it just takes a single SB to justify.... well anything.
Second, the NFL has shown us it's absolutely a copy cat league and it doesn't take much. It took one Hester to get Tedd Ginn Jr into the top 10. It took one old QB winning with a new team now everyone is jumping on "all in for that QB". Whether or not it works (Stafford) or doesn't (Wilson) or we'll see (Rodgers) hasn't stopped it from happening.

It takes one $230 QB to turn around a historically losing franchise to get others to jump on the wagon. Watch.

You have been intentionally obtuse on this. All of your takes have some VERY big "if's".

Watson' 25% cap hit will not be justified unless he turns in 4 years of playoff appearances and one Superbowl victory. It's the browns... you think that is really going to happen? They already had to restructure the deal once last month. it was a shit deal.

If one thing has been proven true... Hopkins can make anyone look good behind center.

[Doctor]

Try to follow.

"Will be justified" is not the same as "seen as justified and copy catted".
If we adhear to the draconian standard of "SB or bust" then yes, the only thing that can justify it (or literally ANY action ever taken) is winning a SB. If you don't, then that was the wrong course of action.

Now while the Browns getting to the SB would be more than enough to make believers of others, I'm saying the bar is a lot lower. If Watson gets 14 wins and an AFCCG, others will jump on board the "F it, throw the big contract at him if it lands the MF" train. It's literally just the newest version of the same train we've been on for years, how do you think we got here?

[Snake]

The Browns being good and winning 14 games doesn’t mean it was a good idea or good process at all and other owners continue to signal they have no interest in replicating a deal of that term and size with full guarantees.

[Doctor]

Wait....

[MJW]

The Watson deal is only an outlier until it's not. That's literally why this is such a big deal.

It's been made clear that moment is not now. That's the point.

[Doctor]

I think you're thinking of Kirk Cousins, who signed a fully guaranteed 3-year, $84 million deal.
And that was 5 years ago, when the TOP 5 highest paid guys avg $27M a year.

The Watson deal was the $38M/yr (the avg for top 5 in 21-22).
And like the Cousins deal, fully guaranteed.

The only difference was it was twice as long.

The baby steps are happening, even if you pretend they are not. This Lamar one is a big one, but best believe Hurts and Burrow are right behind too.

[Snake]

It being twice as long is not a minor thing when risk of injury limiting effectiveness and availability borderlines on exponential in NFL service accrual.

Especially for players whose effectiveness is reliant on mobility, athleticism, quickness.

This is not the MLB where aging curves are reliable. Where great players lose 0.5 WAR every year post age 30 until their late 30s where they lose one WAR a year. Look at Cam Newton.

The NFL is far riskier. Player performance is far more volatile due to the nature of the game. The owners will go to the mattresses over this.