Welcome Baker Mayfield

[Grahamburn]

Mahomes was the 10th pick. The Chiefs traded UP for him. They were picking 27th that year. The goal should be having people in your front office and on your staff that can IDENTIFY and COACH talent!

TANKING for early picks will not bring you a winning culture. Ever.

I'm not arguing that you don't need a badass QB. I am arguing that you absolutely do not have to ditch talented players and lose games to find one. Build your roster with talent. Build your culture with great coaches and great leaders of men. Pounce on the QB when they're available.

Imagine being Jason Licht or Todd Bowles or Bruce Arians and looking Mike Evans, or Ryan Jensen, or Tristan Wirfs, or LaVonte David in the face and telling them to lay it all on the line for a tanked season. Give me a break.

[Bootz]

The goal should be having people in your front office and on your staff that can IDENTIFY and COACH talent!

[Brazen331]

Mayfields TD to INT ratio shows that he is not a very careful QB.

Have you studied Mayfield’s acting chops? He’s like Jason Bateman or Gary Oldman not Joe Namath or Tom Brady. His commercials don’t suck. Whether or not he can QB, he can certainly act.

[mdb1958]

Mayfields TD to INT ratio shows that he is not a very careful QB.

Have you studied Mayfield’s acting chops? He’s like Jason Bateman or Gary Oldman not Joe Namath or Tom Brady. His commercials don’t suck. Whether or not he can QB, he can certainly act.

I just wonder how fast they cleaned out Ryan Griffin's locker, did they even say good bye?

[Jonny]

It’s just stupid.

Geno Smith and the Seahawks were not going to win anything last year and will never win anything with him at the helm.

We seem to hope Baker can have a Smith-like resurgence, but his peak is not winning a superbowl. His peak was his 11-5 run and he has done nothing but regress from then. All we are accomplishing through Baker (if he plays “as hoped”) is kicking the can down the road as a 7-10 win team.

The NFL is about finding a QB that can make your franchise a winner for years and years to come. We are fortunate to have had Brady and a super bowl, but he’s a once in a lifetime talent. If you want to sign a veteran QB, you better hope it’s a Brady type. All Baker Mayfield does is make it harder for us to find that guy and delays us from doing so.

Praying that Trask wins in camp.

God I hate this take. It's just so so bad.

I get it. A franchise QB is sexy. A dynasty is sexy. Stringing together multiple SBs is sexy.
But the truth is that THAT is the fantasy. Brady skewed the picture, but in reality, even the franchiest of franchise QBs usually get you 1 or 2 bites of the apple. If even that. Brady had ten Super Bowl appearances which won't happen again. And who did he beat? Who oftentimes came within inches or minutes of being a champion in their own appearances?

The likes of Jake Deholmme, Jared Goff, Kurt Warner (twice). You also have guys like Jimmy G, Cam Newton, Kaep, Rex Grossman ffs, and Matt Hasselbeck. And those are just the losers. Dudes like Eli, Nick Foles, Staffy and Flacco all actually won. Trent Dilfer beat Kerry Collins. Brad Johnson defeated Gannon in a journeyman duel.

This is why I keep saying stopping an elite QB still remains the best way of winning a championship. Defense still wins championships. We held Mahomes to 9 freaking points and you're going to tell me Geno Smith couldn't get us 10 after averaging 24 ppg because he isn't part of the "cool QB club"? Come on.

It is not about winning a Superbowl, even though it always is the perfect culmination to all of the work that goes in.

It is about looking like a force to be reckoned with week in and week out and the QB not holding the team back in any significant way. Many of the QBs you bring up (SB winners and losers) were absolutely players that held their team back at least somewhat, and that is why their teams could not capture the same level of success soon after.

Yes Jimmy G came close to winning a SB himself, but Brock Purdy in the few games he played made 49ers look like an absolute juggernaut, because he never came in the way of his team and if anything added more ammo to the damage they were doing on opposing defenses with his own playmaking ability.

I've never felt that way about Baker. Watching him even during his best year always seemed like many points were left on the field. It doesn't have much to do with athletic ability, it is always the intangibles.

[Doctor]

I don't disagree with anything you said, except that it's not about winning a SB. It's all about that. That's literally all that matters.

And yes, I would love to grab one of those QBs should the opportunity present itself the way the winning Chiefs, Eagles, and Bills did. But given that those other guys can also get you to the dance, and even win, I'm never going to throw away a ticket to the ball because I don't have the cool guy QB.

No one in the NFC scares me. So long as the Eagles don't draft Bijan.

And I get Baker not giving you that feeling. Totally valid. I'm not going to bash anyone for not being sold on Trask or Baker at this point. It'd be like bashing someone who wasn't sold on the Flynn/Wilson battle or the Geno/Lock battle. But at the same time I can see how certain players and pieces fit, and what do I always preach about if not the importance of fit?

[Buc2]

Nope. The only thing that matters is $$. So long as a team remains at least formidable and is a perennial postseason participant, that team's fans and the sports media will keep them relevant and will keep the $$ rolling in. So, even if said team never reaches the SB, they're doing more than enough to make their owners gobs of $$ and the team always remains in the conversation.

Winning the SB (for the owners) is just the sprinkles on top of the Sundae.

[Doctor]

So you established the correlation between winning and money and then just stopped there.

As if it's not magnified in the postseason.

[Snake]

Most teams would rather make the playoffs every year and get bounced in the second round or even the first round instead of winning one Super Bowl every 10 years and being trash otherwise. The St. Louis Cardinals have perfected this in baseball.

[These Are The Days]

Most teams would rather make the playoffs every year and get bounced in the second round or even the first round instead of winning one Super Bowl every 10 years and being trash otherwise. The St. Louis Cardinals have perfected this in baseball.

Having been spoiled as a Lightning fan these last few years, gimme that chip every 10 years. I can wait if I have to. This ride with the Bucs went almost 20 and if I could've had 2 titles since 2003 it would've been worth it

[Buc2]

Most teams would rather make the playoffs every year and get bounced in the second round or even the first round instead of winning one Super Bowl every 10 years and being trash otherwise. The St. Louis Cardinals have perfected this in baseball.

Having been spoiled as a Lightning fan these last few years, gimme that chip every 10 years. I can wait if I have to. This ride with the Bucs went almost 20 and if I could've had 2 titles since 2003 it would've been worth it

I’m running out of time to wait years between championships. My time on this earth is quickly winding down.

[Selmon Rules]

Being competitive every year puts you in position to win it all much more than being crap and hoping it all comes together every 10 years or so....

I'll take competitive every year, thank you very much

[Buc2]

All I get at at work are condolences from other NFL fans because we have Mayfield and Trask. Makes me want one of those shlubs to light it up so I can laugh in their faces. Bastards.

[Grahamburn]

All I get at at work are condolences from other NFL fans because we have Mayfield and Trask. Makes me want one of those shlubs to light it up so I can laugh in their faces. Bastards.

Have you been gloating in theirs for the last three years?

[Buc2]

All I get at at work are condolences from other NFL fans because we have Mayfield and Trask. Makes me want one of those shlubs to light it up so I can laugh in their faces. Bastards.

Have you been gloating in theirs for the last three years?

Honestly? No. All I’ve said is how fortunate and lucky I was that my team signed Brady. I’ve been a Bucs fan since Day One. I rarely get cocky.

[MJW]

Being competitive every year puts you in position to win it all much more than being crap and hoping it all comes together every 10 years or so....

I'll take competitive every year, thank you very much

In general, way too much is being made of these distinctions.

Does your team draft well, develop young players, and do a good job of identifying free agent value? Congrats, you're going to be good.

Does your team struggle in any or all of these areas? It doesn't matter where you think you're going - you're going to suck.

The "always competitive" teams you're thinking of all do those things well. They've also landed on great coaches, which is as much luck as anything else.

[Obsolete]

Being successful as a franchise for a long period of time means youve got a system, plan, and identity.
Simply put its easy to identify the types of players certain teams go for. Its because their organization is on the same page, everyone from the owner to the janitor and it bleeds out to everything else they do.

[MJW]

Being successful as a franchise for a long period of time means youve got a system, plan, and identity.
Simply put its easy to identify the types of players certain teams go for. Its because their organization is on the same page, everyone from the owner to the janitor and it bleeds out to everything else they do.

Well put.

Good organizations are not good because they're usually competitive.
Good organizations are usually competitive because they're good.

I don't think it has anything to do with thinking short terms or long term, although ironically the "usually competitive" franchise are exactly the ones who DO think long term.

[These Are The Days]

Having been spoiled as a Lightning fan these last few years, gimme that chip every 10 years. I can wait if I have to. This ride with the Bucs went almost 20 and if I could've had 2 titles since 2003 it would've been worth it

I’m running out of time to wait years between championships. My time on this earth is quickly winding down.

Dude we talked about this. We make it look like an accident and your girls are set for life. Sheesh

[Babeinbucland]

Lol

[Phantom]

Man.. you Bucs fans are silly.. Jesus Christ


I support Baker Mayfield as our QB simple as that. If you don't want him around then don't watch the game

[BuccaNOLEer]

Mahomes was the 10th pick. The Chiefs traded UP for him. They were picking 27th that year. The goal should be having people in your front office and on your staff that can IDENTIFY and COACH talent!

TANKING for early picks will not bring you a winning culture. Ever.

I'm not arguing that you don't need a badass QB. I am arguing that you absolutely do not have to ditch talented players and lose games to find one. Build your roster with talent. Build your culture with great coaches and great leaders of men. Pounce on the QB when they're available.

Imagine being Jason Licht or Todd Bowles or Bruce Arians and looking Mike Evans, or Ryan Jensen, or Tristan Wirfs, or LaVonte David in the face and telling them to lay it all on the line for a tanked season. Give me a break.

Great point, but Baker Mayfield is not an example of that talent. He's a bum, and bringing him in is a stopgap move by Licht who clearly isn't thinking long term because he knows his job is at stake. We're going to have to suffer in cap hell sooner or later. That's the price you pay for that Super Bowl. Might as well be sooner.

[_MB_]

Mahomes was the 10th pick. The Chiefs traded UP for him. They were picking 27th that year. The goal should be having people in your front office and on your staff that can IDENTIFY and COACH talent!

TANKING for early picks will not bring you a winning culture. Ever.

I'm not arguing that you don't need a badass QB. I am arguing that you absolutely do not have to ditch talented players and lose games to find one. Build your roster with talent. Build your culture with great coaches and great leaders of men. Pounce on the QB when they're available.

Imagine being Jason Licht or Todd Bowles or Bruce Arians and looking Mike Evans, or Ryan Jensen, or Tristan Wirfs, or LaVonte David in the face and telling them to lay it all on the line for a tanked season. Give me a break.

Great point, but Baker Mayfield is not an example of that talent. He's a bum, and bringing him in is a stopgap move by Licht who clearly isn't thinking long term because he knows his job is at stake. We're going to have to suffer in cap hell sooner or later. That's the price you pay for that Super Bowl. Might as well be sooner.

If that's the way you see it and what you saw coming then you have nothing more to say.

[Grahamburn]

Mahomes was the 10th pick. The Chiefs traded UP for him. They were picking 27th that year. The goal should be having people in your front office and on your staff that can IDENTIFY and COACH talent!

TANKING for early picks will not bring you a winning culture. Ever.

I'm not arguing that you don't need a badass QB. I am arguing that you absolutely do not have to ditch talented players and lose games to find one. Build your roster with talent. Build your culture with great coaches and great leaders of men. Pounce on the QB when they're available.

Imagine being Jason Licht or Todd Bowles or Bruce Arians and looking Mike Evans, or Ryan Jensen, or Tristan Wirfs, or LaVonte David in the face and telling them to lay it all on the line for a tanked season. Give me a break.

Great point, but Baker Mayfield is not an example of that talent. He's a bum, and bringing him in is a stopgap move by Licht who clearly isn't thinking long term because he knows his job is at stake. We're going to have to suffer in cap hell sooner or later. That's the price you pay for that Super Bowl. Might as well be sooner.

Thank you for saying it was a great point, but I think you missed it. What was Alex Smith to the Chiefs? Think about it.

[BuccaNOLEer]

Great point, but Baker Mayfield is not an example of that talent. He's a bum, and bringing him in is a stopgap move by Licht who clearly isn't thinking long term because he knows his job is at stake. We're going to have to suffer in cap hell sooner or later. That's the price you pay for that Super Bowl. Might as well be sooner.

Thank you for saying it was a great point, but I think you missed it. What was Alex Smith to the Chiefs? Think about it.

If you're going to trade up for a QB, you better get it right. I don't trust Licht to get it right.

[Doctor]

Why? Because Winston?

This FO seems to move as one more often then not. Any QB move will likely be one of near unanimous agreement. And I can't think of a FO I would trust more. There's like 9 SB rings amongst them.

[Doctor]

Fantastic interview.

He's 100% right. People forget, it was the fact that this was a great team that lured ring king Brady to come here. We still have two great WRs in their prime Evans (29), Godwin (27). Gage is healthy and fits this system like a glove. Three DBs in their prime, maybe we get a Branch in the draft. You've got Shaq, White, LVD, JTS behind Vea, Gaines and Hall.

We've got new coaches with great resumes for developing talent.

We got a hell of a lot going well. And yes, we have two huge questions in Canales playcalling and our QB. No doubt. But those are QUESTIONS. To assume anyone knows the answers based on the brilliant extrapolation of "he didn't overtake Gabbert" or the 9 passes he's thrown is asinine. If you didn't see Geno Smith coming don't tell me you know what will happen with Baker.

If some want to be a pessimist, fine. But forgive the rest of us if we're not, and doubly so if we don't also subscribe to tanking as the holy strategy some swear it is.

[acmillis]

Really though, why didn’t we fire our ST coach?!?!?

[MJW]

Fantastic interview.

He's 100% right. People forget, it was the fact that this was a great team that lured ring king Brady to come here. We still have two great WRs in their prime Evans (29), Godwin (27). Gage is healthy and fits this system like a glove. Three DBs in their prime, maybe we get a Branch in the draft. You've got Shaq, White, LVD, JTS behind Vea, Gaines and Hall.

We've got new coaches with great resumes for developing talent.

We got a hell of a lot going well. And yes, we have two huge questions in Canales playcalling and our QB. No doubt. But those are QUESTIONS. To assume anyone knows the answers based on the brilliant extrapolation of "he didn't overtake Gabbert" or the 9 passes he's thrown is asinine. If you didn't see Geno Smith coming don't tell me you know what will happen with Baker.

If some want to be a pessimist, fine. But forgive the rest of us if we're not, and doubly so if we don't also subscribe to tanking as the holy strategy some swear it is.

You're welcome to be an optimist. Nobody is denying you that. But when you start to source that optimism like it's based on something tangible and not just a personal choice on your part, you sound like you're praying, not like you're thinking.

[Snake]

Why guys like playing with Baker:

[Doctor]

He's a competitor.
People sleeping on players having a rough start.

[Babeinbucland]

I think Baker Mayfield with do much better (with less surrounding talent) than Brady did last year. I fully expect him to surprise everyone.

[MJW]

He's a competitor.
People sleeping on players having a rough start.

He came into the league the same year as Vita Vea.

Three different teams have seen him up close and given up on him. Two of them - Sean McVay and Kevin Stefanski - are known for working with quarterbacks.

The Browns gave up 3 1st round picks and $250 Mil Guaranteed to replace him.

The Panthers gave up on him to play Sam Darnold and PJ Walker.

You're going to have to do better than "He just needs more time."

[Cheb]

I think Baker Mayfield with do much better (with less surrounding talent) than Brady did last year. I fully expect him to surprise everyone.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I think our offense will be better than most here expect.

For one, no matter who wins the starting job, I would presume that the winner will have more stones in the pocket than Brady had. For all of his positive qualities, Brady last year was borderline terrified of being hit, and how fast he got out the ball was a byproduct of that. Indeed, that speed with getting the ball out was probably bad for the offense.

Defenses at the snap either expand or contract, depending on what they see. Versus passing concepts they spread out, versus run action they compress. When the ball is out that fast, usually to a checkdown because the primary read didn't win from the word go, the defense hasn't had time to expand much if at all, so they are allowed to swarm the short stuff. This is exactly how Kiffin's defense won us a Superbowl, by forcing short throws and then rallying to the ball. Brady getting antsy in clean pockets after 2.5 seconds made the opposing defenses' jobs considerably easier, imo.

If Baker or Trask can show courage under fire, giving Evans and Gage and Godwin and everyone else TIME to get open, then we are going to be pretty damn good.

[MJW]

I think Baker Mayfield with do much better (with less surrounding talent) than Brady did last year. I fully expect him to surprise everyone.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I think our offense will be better than most here expect.

For one, no matter who wins the starting job, I would presume that the winner will have more stones in the pocket than Brady had. For all of his positive qualities, Brady last year was borderline terrified of being hit, and how fast he got out the ball was a byproduct of that. Indeed, that speed with getting the ball out was probably bad for the offense.

Defenses at the snap either expand or contract, depending on what they see. Versus passing concepts they spread out, versus run action they compress. When the ball is out that fast, usually to a checkdown because the primary read didn't win from the word go, the defense hasn't had time to expand much if at all, so they are allowed to swarm the short stuff. This is exactly how Kiffin's defense won us a Superbowl, by forcing short throws and then rallying to the ball. Brady getting antsy in clean pockets after 2.5 seconds made the opposing defenses' jobs considerably easier, imo.

If Baker or Trask can show courage under fire, giving Evans and Gage and Godwin and everyone else TIME to get open, then we are going to be pretty damn good.

I don't see our line being good enough to give our quarterbacks time to be effective, courage or not. And even if White and Otton are decent, our lack of depth at those positions will get exposed. Also, Godwin and Gage have missed significant time the last couple of years, so counting on a full season from our WR trio seems foolish. Unfortunately, we have absolutely nothing behind them.

Poor line. Poor depth. Replacement level quarterback. You can play the, "if this then that" game with every unit on every team. But like I said, if this wasn't the Bucs...if this was a team we don't care about, and someone told you this offensive unit, do you think you'd be predicting them to be sneaky good?