Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Discussion fodder:
If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)
The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.
This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.
If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)
The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.
This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Wtf is fake compete?
Since 2000 just as many Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls as #1 seeds.
Since 2000 just as many Wild Card teams have won Super Bowls as #1 seeds.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.
But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Hey Siri,real bucs fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:00 amIf we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.
But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.
>add “new offense”
>subtract “GOAT”
>play “Trash/Mayfield”
>expect “better results”
Oh no, my phone exploded.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Isn't that why you fire most of the offensive staff in the 1st place? Because you want and expect better results?
Most hated man in America.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
I'm betting the under. Hoping for it anyway.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
and you draw this conclusion from what evidence?Snake wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:29 pm Discussion fodder:
If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)
The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.
This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Luckily for us, it isn’t that simple.Snake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:02 amHey Siri,real bucs fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:00 am
If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.
But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.
>add “new offense”
>subtract “GOAT”
>play “Trash/Mayfield”
>expect “better results”
Oh no, my phone exploded.
The O was broken last year. Arians scheme requires elite line play and execution and we didn’t get it.
The new scheme might not have best offence in the league upside like Arians does, but the floor is a lot higher than what we saw last year. We will be better offensively than we were last year despite losing Brady. The D should be better too with Shaq back and hopefully an improved pass rush. Imagine the Seattle offence with Bowles D. That’s the upside for this season.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Trask couldnt beat out Gabbert for the primary backup job. And Gabbert is awful. Trask spent an entire *season* reworking his mechanics despite being a 5 year college player. Not offseason. Season.acmillis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:23 amand you draw this conclusion from what evidence?Snake wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:29 pm Discussion fodder:
If Buccaneers finish 4th in this scenario, it is likely that AZ, Indy, and Houston will be committed to young QBs already. Kyler on his huge deal, and highly drafted QBs from the 2023 draft (Indy/HOU)
The Bucs may be “forced” to trade up to #1 in there’s a “generational” QB there for the taking. Because if they don’t, someone else will.
This bodes well for those of us who aren’t convinced Trash/Baker are the future. And don’t want to fake compete in an awful division.
Mayfield is being flaunted around like he’s the starter-to-be. Mayfield is a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL. If he starts, that means Trask is even worse.
It’s really not looking good. Vegas agrees.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Shhhh. Stop making sense.
MB is doing it right.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Vegas also had INDY winning 10 games last year, Broncos winning 10, Rams winning 10.5, etc.Snake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:48 amTrask couldnt beat out Gabbert for the primary backup job. And Gabbert is awful. Trask spent an entire *season* reworking his mechanics despite being a 5 year college player. Not offseason. Season.
Mayfield is being flaunted around like he’s the starter-to-be. Mayfield is a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL. If he starts, that means Trask is even worse.
It’s really not looking good. Vegas agrees.
Vegas is a guessing game just like Trask is, but at least give Trask a shot before we bury the kid.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
That is not how fandom works.acmillis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:59 amVegas also had INDY winning 10 games last year, Broncos winning 10, Rams winning 10.5, etc.Snake wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:48 am
Trask couldnt beat out Gabbert for the primary backup job. And Gabbert is awful. Trask spent an entire *season* reworking his mechanics despite being a 5 year college player. Not offseason. Season.
Mayfield is being flaunted around like he’s the starter-to-be. Mayfield is a bottom 5 starting QB in the NFL. If he starts, that means Trask is even worse.
It’s really not looking good. Vegas agrees.
Vegas is a guessing game just like Trask is, but at least give Trask a shot before we bury the kid.
Don't tread on me
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
He’s 25 years old.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Draft groupies as dogmatic zealots.
There are plenty of ways to get a SB winning QB. Sometimes you can sign them as a Free Agent the way the Saints and Bucs did. Sometimes you can trade for one like the Rams and Jets. And yes sometimes you can draft one.
You'd think a battle between a groomed 2nd round pick and a former first overall would be near the top of the list of QB situations one would want to be in when in search of a QB, and you would be right. But groupies believe in just the one way, Burrow or bust. Anything else is met with the vigor of the westboro baptist church at a Pride parade.
There are plenty of ways to get a SB winning QB. Sometimes you can sign them as a Free Agent the way the Saints and Bucs did. Sometimes you can trade for one like the Rams and Jets. And yes sometimes you can draft one.
You'd think a battle between a groomed 2nd round pick and a former first overall would be near the top of the list of QB situations one would want to be in when in search of a QB, and you would be right. But groupies believe in just the one way, Burrow or bust. Anything else is met with the vigor of the westboro baptist church at a Pride parade.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
I like the over 7.5 on Chicago just because that division is going to get worse and Chicago will be improved with already some of the moves they’ve made and all their draft picks.
Over 9.5 on Jets because Rodgers has some really good weapons around him in NY and I like Saleh as a coach. Feels like 11-6 year.
Under 7.5 on Atl because I don’t think Ridder is that good and they have tons of holes. If anyone needs Lamar, it’s them.
Over 10.5 on Jax. To me, they actually gonna rival for the #1 seed And have putrid division. Adding Ridley is huge and TL is only getting better.
I think TBs total about right. I’d lean under if I had to, but the NFCS is so weak, they may be able to squeak out 7 wins.
Over 9.5 on Jets because Rodgers has some really good weapons around him in NY and I like Saleh as a coach. Feels like 11-6 year.
Under 7.5 on Atl because I don’t think Ridder is that good and they have tons of holes. If anyone needs Lamar, it’s them.
Over 10.5 on Jax. To me, they actually gonna rival for the #1 seed And have putrid division. Adding Ridley is huge and TL is only getting better.
I think TBs total about right. I’d lean under if I had to, but the NFCS is so weak, they may be able to squeak out 7 wins.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
That's a big number for the Jaguars. I realize they won 9 last year, and everyone is bullish on Lawrence and the new regime. But I expect the AFC South to be tougher this year. The Jags were literally the only team in the division last year with a functional quarterback. That won't be the case again.Navybuc wrote: ↑Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:47 am I like the over 7.5 on Chicago just because that division is going to get worse and Chicago will be improved with already some of the moves they’ve made and all their draft picks.
Over 9.5 on Jets because Rodgers has some really good weapons around him in NY and I like Saleh as a coach. Feels like 11-6 year.
Under 7.5 on Atl because I don’t think Ridder is that good and they have tons of holes. If anyone needs Lamar, it’s them.
Over 10.5 on Jax. To me, they actually gonna rival for the #1 seed And have putrid division. Adding Ridley is huge and TL is only getting better.
I think TBs total about right. I’d lean under if I had to, but the NFCS is so weak, they may be able to squeak out 7 wins.
I'll pound the hell out of the under on the Saints. When the crap has Derek Carr elevated anything? The QBs they played last year were statistically basically the same as Carr.
I'll take the over for the Giants. Why would they regress? The division, meanwhile, might.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
You have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.real bucs fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:00 amIf we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.
But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.
But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.
Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.
This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Are the teams in our division any better? They are starting either a rookie or Andy Dalton, a 2nd year player with 4 starts, and a re-tread 10 year vet that has only made the playoffs twice who you yourself has said isn't much better than Andy Dalton. We're all crop dusting the same VW bug here. And, generally, the NFC doesn't look all that great while we also play the AFC South this year. Also, not great. A few things break right and it could be an 8-10 win season.MJW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:02 amYou have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.real bucs fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:00 am
If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.
But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.
But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.
Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.
This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.
Tom Brady did not look like the greatest player of all time last year. He looked like a scared long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Maybe Logan Hall and JTS can step up and into more prevalent impactful roles. Does Shaq come back? Maybe they hit a Wirfs-esque dinger with the 19th pick. Canales shakes the rust off Baker. A lot of positive things could happen.
It's entirely feasible that the 2023 offense is exponentially better than last year's.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Just want to also point out that 9 of our games are against teams in those 3 lower tiers.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Obviously, Las Vegas deems NO signing Carr is a lot better than the Bucs signing Mayfield.
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
The Saints went from Dalton/Winston to Derek Carr. It's debatable how much of an upgrade that is, but it is an upgrade.Grahamburn wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:55 amAre the teams in our division any better? They are starting either a rookie or Andy Dalton, a 2nd year player with 4 starts, and a re-tread 10 year vet that has only made the playoffs twice who you yourself has said isn't much better than Andy Dalton. We're all crop dusting the same VW bug here. And, generally, the NFC doesn't look all that great while we also play the AFC South this year. Also, not great. A few things break right and it could be an 8-10 win season.MJW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:02 am
You have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.
But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.
Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.
This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.
Tom Brady did not look like the greatest player of all time last year. He looked like a scared long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Maybe Logan Hall and JTS can step up and into more prevalent impactful roles. Does Shaq come back? Maybe they hit a Wirfs-esque dinger with the 19th pick. Canales shakes the rust off Baker. A lot of positive things could happen.
It's entirely feasible that the 2023 offense is exponentially better than last year's.
The Panthers are going from Darnold/Mayfield (lol)/Walker to Stroud or Bryce Young. That's an upgrade, rookie or otherwise. And so is Rhule/Wilks to Reich.
The Falcons are going from Mariota to 2nd year Ridder. Almost certainly an upgrade based on Mariota's play.
Yes, maybe Logan Hall is Reggie White. Maybe Shaq (who was invisible before he got hurt) rebounds in his 30s when he was already declining. ETC, ETC.
Prayers. Not reasons for optimism. Not based on anything real. We could also say that maybe ANY team's rookies are future Hall of Famers, so on and so forth.
This is roster has lots of holes, absolutely no depth, going from Tom Brady to Baker Mayfield, still coached by Toilet Bowles, and we won 8 games last year in one of the worst divisions in recent memory. And it's lost talent, not added it. I don't see any of that as controversial.
And frankly, if the "optimistic" scenario really relies on our opponents being even shittier, it's not actually optimism, unless you see a repeat of last year's playoff debacle as a positive outcome.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
There's absolutely no way that any intelligent Bucs fan would look at this roster, these quarterbacks, and this coach and be claiming we're going to be any good if it was any other team. No chance.
Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.
Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.
Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.
Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Have you gotten yourself on that medical marijuana?MJW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:04 am There's absolutely no way that any intelligent Bucs fan would look at this roster, these quarterbacks, and this coach and be claiming we're going to be any good if it was any other team. No chance.
Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.
Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
What is "good?" Super Bowl contender? No. Probably not unless there's some version of Baker Mayfield we've never seen before. Competitive every week and possibly push for a playoff spot? Sure, if a few things go their way.MJW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:04 am There's absolutely no way that any intelligent Bucs fan would look at this roster, these quarterbacks, and this coach and be claiming we're going to be any good if it was any other team. No chance.
Be optimistic because it's more fun to be optimistic. I envy you. I am not capable of this.
Just stop acting like there's any way you WOULDN'T be optimistic. It's a choice, not the result of sober analysis. This is a 3-5 win team.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
Well if things go south, then we pivot and rebuild completely. But I’m happy with the moves. If we had brought back Leftwich and signed Jimmy G I’d be feeling differently, but I really like the combo of Canales and Mayfield. There’s potential here.MJW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:02 amYou have a great point. This is not the same group. This one is worse. Our new QB is replacing the greatest football player in history, but it's okay because 3 teams have given up on him in the last 13 months. Our 2nd best OL was traded away and replaced with nothing. We lost two starters on the front seven and a third (Nacho) who was virtually a starter, and replaced them with nothing. And we have two safeties on the roster and one of them's a camp body. We moved on from arguably our most reliable kicker in team history.real bucs fan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:00 am
If we were running things back with the same group you’d have a point. But we have a new offence and a new QB that has yet to play a snap for us.
But feel free to feel shitty and miserable over the next 6 months only to be pleasantly surprised when the team performs decently if you so wish.
But we can all pretend Dave Canales - who I'll bet a nickel nobody had ever heard of before two months ago - is Bill Walsh. Which makes one wonder why the Seahawks hired 2 different OCs when they already had him on their staff.
Same thing I said to Doctor - nobody is begrudging anyone their optimism. I wish I could be more optimistic! But then when we're supposed to be convinced your optimism is merited because...Dave Canales? Baker Mayfield? Greg Gaines? No.
This is a poorly built roster with no depth, no quarterback, and no head coach. This is going to be a forgotten fart of a year and neither Bowles nor Mayfield will be around for the next.
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Re: Opening W/L odds has Buccaneers as bottom 4 team next season
What improvements have the Bucs made so far this off season? Because the Bucs had their backs against the salary cap wall, they were unable to make offers to Free Agent offensive tackles. Will the young offensive linemen make drastic steps forward? I hope so, otherwise this team is doomed.