Welcome new OC Dave Canales!

[Cheb]

Play sequencing, scheming. Can he do that at a very high level? That’s what matters.

As I recall from his press conference, Canales hasn't called an offense since he was a JV coach in high school around 20 years ago, but he occasionally called plays during Seahawks scrimmages for the #2 offense.

Sooner or later you have to just let a coach do it and see how they do. You coach up your coaches as best you can and hope it works out when the bullets are live. Sometimes it does, sometimes not, but the only way you're gonna know is by trusting them enough to let them and giving them enough room to make mistakes and grow. A good principal of management is to hire good people and then get out of their way; I hope we do that.

[Snake]

Instead of paying enough money to get somebody in here who has proven to do it at a high-level, they were forced to sign somebody who was an unknown commodity in those very important areas?

This is the highest level of football in the country. You figure unknown commodities are not necessary for billionaires. But what do I know?

This is where people say, THEN WHO SHOULD THEY HAVE SIGNED?!? YOU ASSUME PEOPLE WANT TO BE HERE!

I’m just saying. One doesn’t necessarily have to take chances on things like this. Money talks.

[mdb1958]

Something I've never really thought about - but - does the NFL limit how many coaches you can have?

[Cheb]

Something I've never really thought about - but - does the NFL limit how many coaches you can have?

They do not.

[IchabodCrane84]

Something I've never really thought about - but - does the NFL limit how many coaches you can have?

Schiamo hired Butch Davis as the How to be a Head Coach coach, so no.

[Deja Entendu]

Instead of paying enough money to get somebody in here who has proven to do it at a high-level, they were forced to sign somebody who was an unknown commodity in those very important areas?

This is the highest level of football in the country. You figure unknown commodities are not necessary for billionaires. But what do I know?

This is where people say, THEN WHO SHOULD THEY HAVE SIGNED?!? YOU ASSUME PEOPLE WANT TO BE HERE!

I’m just saying. One doesn’t necessarily have to take chances on things like this. Money talks.

Most people who have done it at a high level are already under contract somewhere… because they do it/have done it at a high level. If they’re not, it’s usually for a reason.

The coaching ranks around the league are literally built on hires exactly like this.

[Snake]

Instead of paying enough money to get somebody in here who has proven to do it at a high-level, they were forced to sign somebody who was an unknown commodity in those very important areas?

This is the highest level of football in the country. You figure unknown commodities are not necessary for billionaires. But what do I know?

This is where people say, THEN WHO SHOULD THEY HAVE SIGNED?!? YOU ASSUME PEOPLE WANT TO BE HERE!

I’m just saying. One doesn’t necessarily have to take chances on things like this. Money talks.

Most people who have done it at a high level are already under contract somewhere… because they do it/have done it at a high level. If they’re not, it’s usually for a reason.

The coaching ranks around the league are literally built on hires exactly like this.

There are more than 100 D1 college teams. No one exists down there who has proven to be good at scheming, playcalling, play sequencing, and the like?

[Deja Entendu]

Most people who have done it at a high level are already under contract somewhere… because they do it/have done it at a high level. If they’re not, it’s usually for a reason.

The coaching ranks around the league are literally built on hires exactly like this.

There are more than 100 D1 college teams. No one exists down there who has proven to be good at scheming, playcalling, play sequencing, and the like?

Probably not too many who had success doing that against NFL defenses.

It’s not like Canales doesn’t have a pedigree. He’s worked side by side with one of the best coaches in the NFL (and also CFB) for over a decade.

He was the passing coordinator and QB coach for Russ in his prime (who notably dropped off after leaving him), and he just coached up Geno Smith to be comeback player of the year.

[Doctor]

I'd liken that to Arians being named a "QB Guru" because of his work with 5 #1 overall picks at QB.

This has to be the worst take you've had in a long time.

If working with the "#1 overall QB" had anywhere near the sort of #effect you are implying then there would be more successes than failures from #1 QBs NOT coaches by Arians. But that's not the case. Not even close. In fact, the inverse is far more common.

Not to mention the legend of Arians as a QB guru started way before any of those guys when he took a freaking KICKER and made him into a star QB. Yes, that's right, a kicker turned QB broke State and SEC passing records and became first team All-Southeastern Conference in his only season as a Division I quarterback. Oh yes, and he also led Mississippi State to victory in their bowl game too, so it wasn't just "exciting stats" with no wins either.

The player's name was Dave Marler. Manning was potty training at the time.

And that's without getting into how blatantly insincere your twisted statement is or the fact that Manning and Leaf were coinflips for #1 overall, that Manning did not come into the NFL as the second coming but in fact had a very clear progression, or that "#1 overall" Palmer was actually on his THIRD team at the time.

I know you have an axe to grind against white coaches, but this is a ridiculous stretch even for you Bootz.

[Bootz]

Doc.......Someone said this a while ago and I kinda scoffed at it but now I see it. You're trying to be me. Trying too hard.

[Doctor]

You are seriously trying to dismiss a 3 rings, 2 COTY career as dumb luck.

I don't know if I should take you seriously.

[Bootz]

As I said, you're trying too hard to be me. You made an argument that the QB Guru stuff was because of a kicker he turned into a QB 50 years ago. But then you change that to his subsequent resumé.

Get another act, kiddo. Nothing against you but this ain't it.

[Doctor]

They are valid and complimentary points you're just side stepping.

You have to be trolling right now.

[Sdbucs]

Most people who have done it at a high level are already under contract somewhere… because they do it/have done it at a high level. If they’re not, it’s usually for a reason.

The coaching ranks around the league are literally built on hires exactly like this.

There are more than 100 D1 college teams. No one exists down there who has proven to be good at scheming, playcalling, play sequencing, and the like?

I understand where you’re coming from, but disagree in that you seem to hold D1 college and NFL at a near equal level.

I shit on him all the time here, but it’s a perfect example. Monken. He was GARBAGE in the NFL as an OC. He goes to D1 Georgia and pops off.

How much of that was him, how much of that was the players?

College is just infinitely more difficult to judge scheme coaches off of because it is so so so so dependent on the skill discrepancies amongst players and teams. Georgia could have gone up against a lower ranked school and ran the most vanilla offense of all time and won because their players were that dominant. But Monken gets credit for his scheme? No, it’s the players.

The point I’m trying to make is that it is very difficult to discern player skill vs coach scheme aptitude in college due to massive player skill disparity.

If the NFL, players skill levels are much closer, and so good coaching stands out more. While we have not seen Canales scheme, we do know that he’s been in multiple successful offenses around other successful coaches with a variety of players. You don’t consistently perform well in the NFL like that by luck. Canales seems to have added value as a coach throughout his tenure. And I take a guy who has proven his ability to add value in the NFL vs a guy who has had success in the NCAA almost every time because the NCAA is about the players and the NFL is about the coaches.

[Buc2]

I've seen some of you say, if such and such was so good, then why didn't their own team promote them to OC?

Well...it just doesn't happen very often.

Of the 32 OC positions in the NFL only 3 were promoted by their current team to that position in the AFC (Bills-Ken Dorsey; Steelers-Matt Canada; and Titans-Tim Kelly) and 4 in the NFC (Cowboys-Brian Schottenheimer; Lions-Ben Johnson; Packers-Adam Stenavich; and Saints-Pete Carmichael). There's still 1 vacancy in the AFC and 3 in the NFC, so this list could change if one of those teams fills their OC position from within. Oh, and the Niners don't have an OC. Shanahan handles their OC duties.

So, as of today, there are 26 OCs of which 7 (27%) were hired from within. It just isn't very prevalent in this league.

[Primeminister]

I've seen some of you say, if such and such was so good, then why didn't their own team promote them to OC?

Well...it just doesn't happen very often.

Of the 32 OC positions in the NFL only 3 were promoted by their current team to that position in the AFC (Bills-Ken Dorsey; Steelers-Matt Canada; and Titans-Tim Kelly) and 4 in the NFC (Cowboys-Brian Schottenheimer; Lions-Ben Johnson; Packers-Adam Stenavich; and Saints-Pete Carmichael). There's still 1 vacancy in the AFC and 3 in the NFC, so this list could change if one of those teams fills their OC position from within. Oh, and the Niners don't have an OC. Shanahan handles their OC duties.

So, as of today, there are 26 OCs of which 7 (27%) were hired from within. It just isn't very prevalent in this league.

Not to mention if we hired from within it would be viewed as OBP not being diligent in our coaching search.

[Buc2]

I've seen some of you say, if such and such was so good, then why didn't their own team promote them to OC?

Well...it just doesn't happen very often.

Of the 32 OC positions in the NFL only 3 were promoted by their current team to that position in the AFC (Bills-Ken Dorsey; Steelers-Matt Canada; and Titans-Tim Kelly) and 4 in the NFC (Cowboys-Brian Schottenheimer; Lions-Ben Johnson; Packers-Adam Stenavich; and Saints-Pete Carmichael). There's still 1 vacancy in the AFC and 3 in the NFC, so this list could change if one of those teams fills their OC position from within. Oh, and the Niners don't have an OC. Shanahan handles their OC duties.

So, as of today, there are 26 OCs of which 7 (27%) were hired from within. It just isn't very prevalent in this league.

Not to mention if we hired from within it would be viewed as OBP not being diligent in our coaching search.

Oh yeah. And there's that, too.

[Buc2]

I've seen some of you say, if such and such was so good, then why didn't their own team promote them to OC?

Well...it just doesn't happen very often.

Of the 32 OC positions in the NFL only 3 were promoted by their current team to that position in the AFC (Bills-Ken Dorsey; Steelers-Matt Canada; and Titans-Tim Kelly) and 4 in the NFC (Cowboys-Brian Schottenheimer; Lions-Ben Johnson; Packers-Adam Stenavich; and Saints-Pete Carmichael). There's still 1 vacancy in the AFC and 3 in the NFC, so this list could change if one of those teams fills their OC position from within. Oh, and the Niners don't have an OC. Shanahan handles their OC duties.

So, as of today, there are 26 OCs of which 7 (27%) were hired from within. It just isn't very prevalent in this league.

Here's another little tidbit while we're on this subject.

Only 3 current OCs were NFL OCs before their current team hired them: Chargers-Kellen Moore (Cowboys); Commanders-Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs); and Rams-Mike LaFleur (Jets).

2 others were NCAA OCs prior to being hired: Patriots-Bill O'Brien (Alabama); and Ravens-Todd Monken (Georgia).

[Doctor]

I shit on him all the time here, but it’s a perfect example. Monken. He was GARBAGE in the NFL as an OC. He goes to D1 Georgia and pops off.

Garbage seems a bit harsh but you're not wrong. Monken deserved a tire kick as one of the thickest resumes on the market, but I think everyone initial reaction of "meh" was far more spot on. He's a Georgia 10 but an LA 6 as they say. This is why the contention that he rejected us, when no offer was reported, always seemed off. Either way glad a reunion didn't happen.

You don’t consistently perform well in the NFL like that by luck.

"Unless you're Bruce Arians"
-Bootz

[Bootz]

I've seen some of you say, if such and such was so good, then why didn't their own team promote them to OC?

Well...it just doesn't happen very often.

Of the 32 OC positions in the NFL only 3 were promoted by their current team to that position in the AFC (Bills-Ken Dorsey; Steelers-Matt Canada; and Titans-Tim Kelly) and 4 in the NFC (Cowboys-Brian Schottenheimer; Lions-Ben Johnson; Packers-Adam Stenavich; and Saints-Pete Carmichael). There's still 1 vacancy in the AFC and 3 in the NFC, so this list could change if one of those teams fills their OC position from within. Oh, and the Niners don't have an OC. Shanahan handles their OC duties.

So, as of today, there are 26 OCs of which 7 (27%) were hired from within. It just isn't very prevalent in this league.

Here's another little tidbit while we're on this subject.

Only 3 current OCs were NFL OCs before their current team hired them: Chargers-Kellen Moore (Cowboys); Commanders-Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs); and Rams-Mike LaFleur (Jets).

2 others were NCAA OCs prior to being hired: Patriots-Bill O'Brien (Alabama); and Ravens-Todd Monken (Georgia).

[Doctor]

He'll be getting HC offers by this time next year

[Bootz]

Oh...You mean people won't tell him he'll have to go elsewhere to prove it wasn't all Andy Reid? Hmmmm.

[Buc2]

Oh...You mean people won't tell him he'll have to go elsewhere to prove it wasn't all Andy Reid? Hmmmm.

I'll be saying it was all Andy Reid and Mahomes.

[_MB_]

Of course it's all Andy Reid and Mahomes.

[Bootz]

I'm sure the next team that hires Nagy to be their HC will think it's all Reid & Mahomes as well