Your top 5 DL's in the draft

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Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by Defense5599 »

Edge Rushers and Interior D-Linemen. Who and why?
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

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I watched Joshua Paschal in person. He looked really good. Tested well at the combine, as well.

We have schematic parameters right now but who knows how different it looks in 18 months WRT as coaches and personnel
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by Cheb »

This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by MJW »

Okay, we're going to define this as "Front Seven Guys Who Aren't Off The Ball Linebacker," yes? And we're going to say this list is specifically for the Bucs, with our two gap odd fronts and blitz tendencies?

My list for us would look like this:

1) Aidan Hutchinson. I could see him in that Gholston role. Playing both in 2 and 3 point stances. Mostly rushing, but also setting edges and occasionally dropping into shallow coverage. But mostly rushing and running games with standup guys.

2) Kayvon Thibodeaux. IMHO he's simply an incredibly gifted rusher and you don't pass on those. Considering the state of the franchise, if this happened, I'd be looking at the cap ramifications of dealing Shaq Barrett (if Von Miller, at age 32, was worth a 2nd and a 3rd, I'm thinking we'd do well in such a trade.)

3) George Karlaftis, Purdue. He's not as big as Suh, but I think he's born to be a 5T. He's man strong and he has a motor. I'd love him in that role, stopping the run and harassing quarterbacks too.

4) Travis Jones, UConn. Cheb and I have been agreeing to disagree on him. IMHO I'm seeing another Vea type monster. 6'4 325 and he was physically dominant at the Senior Bowl. He didn't get any coaching at Uconn (who does, besides basketball players?) but he's a short yardage run guy this year and potentially a superstar next year.

5) Perrion Winfrey, Oklahoma. This was a tough call. Lotta guys I like. Winfrey I just see as a physically a hand-in-glove fit on our defensive line. A bully who can push the pile and even win with finesse.

Some other guys who will make these lists:

- Jordan Davis. I have no idea who he is at the next level. On paper, he's another Sam Adams, combining huge size with freaky athleticism. But where's the production? Why does he play so high? Why are there so many lazy and bad reps? Like I said, he could be Sam Adams, or he could be Albert Haynesworth.

- Devon Wyatt and DeMarvin Leal. I don't see them as great system fits. If we were still running the even front one-gap schemes of yore, they'd both be on the above list.

- Travon Walker. Another guy who's a weird projection for me in this scheme. He could play in the two point stance, but I don't think it'd fit his game. He should be in a 4-3.

- Jermaine Johnson. He lost the numbers game, but he should be on this list.

- David Ojabo. Just under Jermaine Johnson.

Some other later guys I happen to like:

- Jeffrey Gunter, EDGE, Coastal Carolina. He plays fast and he's a bully at the POA. He'll spend a year or two on special teams and rotating in, but I see a long NFL career ahead if he gets coached up.

- Ben Stille, 5T, Nebraska. GBR! The most attractive thing about him is his built. He's 6'5 300 and he's strong. He's another guy who would look good on special teams, blocking kicks and such. If he was 21, I think he's a 4-6 round type, but he's 25 and likely will go undrafted.

- Eric Johnson, DL, Missouri State. The 6'5 305 Johnson is one of my favorite small school prospects this year.

- Adam Anderson, EDGE, Georgia. Good news/bad news on this guy. He's 6'5 230 and he's an absolutely explosive edge rusher. His length and explosiveness are rare. The bad news is he's probably going to get convicted of rape. Oops!

- Christopher Hinton, IDL, Michigan. I watched him a bunch watching more heralded guys on their D. He'll be a nice wave player in the NFL. Not a star, but he'll give you 15-20 good snaps a game.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

Cheb wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:13 pm This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.
Not only that but when we lined up with 3 DL and 2 OLB's we got ate up. So quite often I was looking at 2 DL and 2 OLB - we need to figure that out. If we are looking for a great match doing the 2 and 2 with Vea I think we do need to look at DE/powerful Edges (all with quicks).

Of course we could end up with 3 in the middle that do present gifts to our OLB's.

It would be nice to run both options really well.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

MJW wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:12 am Okay, we're going to define this as "Front Seven Guys Who Aren't Off The Ball Linebacker," yes? And we're going to say this list is specifically for the Bucs, with our two gap odd fronts and blitz tendencies?

My list for us would look like this:

1) Aidan Hutchinson. I could see him in that Gholston role. Playing both in 2 and 3 point stances. Mostly rushing, but also setting edges and occasionally dropping into shallow coverage. But mostly rushing and running games with standup guys.

2) Kayvon Thibodeaux. IMHO he's simply an incredibly gifted rusher and you don't pass on those. Considering the state of the franchise, if this happened, I'd be looking at the cap ramifications of dealing Shaq Barrett (if Von Miller, at age 32, was worth a 2nd and a 3rd, I'm thinking we'd do well in such a trade.)

3) George Karlaftis, Purdue. He's not as big as Suh, but I think he's born to be a 5T. He's man strong and he has a motor. I'd love him in that role, stopping the run and harassing quarterbacks too.

4) Travis Jones, UConn. Cheb and I have been agreeing to disagree on him. IMHO I'm seeing another Vea type monster. 6'4 325 and he was physically dominant at the Senior Bowl. He didn't get any coaching at Uconn (who does, besides basketball players?) but he's a short yardage run guy this year and potentially a superstar next year.

5) Perrion Winfrey, Oklahoma. This was a tough call. Lotta guys I like. Winfrey I just see as a physically a hand-in-glove fit on our defensive line. A bully who can push the pile and even win with finesse.

Some other guys who will make these lists:

- Jordan Davis. I have no idea who he is at the next level. On paper, he's another Sam Adams, combining huge size with freaky athleticism. But where's the production? Why does he play so high? Why are there so many lazy and bad reps? Like I said, he could be Sam Adams, or he could be Albert Haynesworth.

- Devon Wyatt and DeMarvin Leal. I don't see them as great system fits. If we were still running the even front one-gap schemes of yore, they'd both be on the above list.

- Travon Walker. Another guy who's a weird projection for me in this scheme. He could play in the two point stance, but I don't think it'd fit his game. He should be in a 4-3.

- Jermaine Johnson. He lost the numbers game, but he should be on this list.

- David Ojabo. Just under Jermaine Johnson.

Some other later guys I happen to like:

- Jeffrey Gunter, EDGE, Coastal Carolina. He plays fast and he's a bully at the POA. He'll spend a year or two on special teams and rotating in, but I see a long NFL career ahead if he gets coached up.

- Ben Stille, 5T, Nebraska. GBR! The most attractive thing about him is his built. He's 6'5 300 and he's strong. He's another guy who would look good on special teams, blocking kicks and such. If he was 21, I think he's a 4-6 round type, but he's 25 and likely will go undrafted.

- Eric Johnson, DL, Missouri State. The 6'5 305 Johnson is one of my favorite small school prospects this year.

- Adam Anderson, EDGE, Georgia. Good news/bad news on this guy. He's 6'5 230 and he's an absolutely explosive edge rusher. His length and explosiveness are rare. The bad news is he's probably going to get convicted of rape. Oops!

- Christopher Hinton, IDL, Michigan. I watched him a bunch watching more heralded guys on their D. He'll be a nice wave player in the NFL. Not a star, but he'll give you 15-20 good snaps a game.
The thing I wish I knew was with Jordan Davis and Travis Jones is how often did they have 1 on 1 instead of getting doubled up.


More names

Sam Roberts
CJ Brewer
Eyioma Uwazurike
Otito Ogbonnia
Jayden Peevy
Curtis Brooks
Demetrius Taylor
Elijah Garcia
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

What edge or DL players would override Zion Johnson
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

2023 Bump.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

Cheb wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:13 pm This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.


Yep - interior defenders.

And it starts all over again.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by MJW »

Cheb wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:13 pm This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.
Not calling you out Cheb, but this is a great example of why you can't look too hard at needs when drafting. When Cheb posted this in 2022, we did look set on the edges. Now we have Shaq Barrett coming off another disappointing year and a major injury, and JTS still seemingly incapable of finishing plays. We should absolutely be considering edge options this year.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

MJW wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:48 am
Cheb wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:13 pm This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.
Not calling you out Cheb, but this is a great example of why you can't look too hard at needs when drafting. When Cheb posted this in 2022, we did look set on the edges. Now we have Shaq Barrett coming off another disappointing year and a major injury, and JTS still seemingly incapable of finishing plays. We should absolutely be considering edge options this year.

Both - interior and edge - and LB

Problem is there are so many players with the (you'd think) bodies for becoming superstars and they have done very little. That makes me think do they love the game? Are they out to be the best? Wanting ten plus year careers.

But that can be with all positions nowadays.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by Cheb »

MJW wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:48 am
Cheb wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:13 pm This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.
Not calling you out Cheb, but this is a great example of why you can't look too hard at needs when drafting. When Cheb posted this in 2022, we did look set on the edges. Now we have Shaq Barrett coming off another disappointing year and a major injury, and JTS still seemingly incapable of finishing plays. We should absolutely be considering edge options this year.
Drafting strictly for need versus strictly by Best Player Available is a matter of two truths in tension. If you go too far one way or the other, you quickly get yourself in trouble, either by being "forced" into drafting certain positions because you didn't fill out your roster with some semblance of depth, or doing something wild like drafting four quarterbacks in the same draft. Need versus BPA is always on a gray continuum somewhere in that spectrum between light and dark.

In hindsight the discussion of edge depth entering the 2022 draft was true, but only in hindsight. You cannot predict an Achilles' injury like Shaq Barrett had, and the minute that you get one at most any position for an aging player, that position will rocket up the needs list. It would be the same as saying we should've drafted an early round receiver if Mike Evans had a bad injury and missed most of the year, or another inside linebacker if we got snakebit at that position. One can play those games all day, and when one does that they realize that if they can do it for every position, causing these discussions to lose their efficacy as mental exercises to address relative roster strengths and weaknesses. The same can be said for JTS' sophomore slump; difficult to predict, and if he had broken out to a double-digit sack season we would be wondering why we "wasted" a top pick on a depth edge rusher (though I would argue that depth at edge is never wasted, but what do I know).
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

As far as who we might could get. After Tuli I'm just throwin out some names.

TULI TUIPULOTU DL/EDGE USC
MORO OJOMO DL/EDGE TEXAS
KARL BROOKS DL/EDGE BOWLING GREEN
JERMAYNE LOLE DL/EDGE LOUISVILLE
DEVONNSHA MAXWELL DL/EDGE CHATTANOOGA
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

One prospect list has Karl Brooks at 59 and another has him at 229.

Who is pushing Lukas Van Ness up the boards?
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

@Cheb

Cheb would it benefit Siaki Ika to peel of some pounds, seems he was mostly a b gap player.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by Doctor »

Your final example is actually exactly why you do draft a pass rusher BPA.

You fill your holes and needs in FA where you usually have a better idea of what you are getting.
You use the draft to get your stars and studs.
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:57 pm Your final example is actually exactly why you do draft a pass rusher BPA.

You fill your holes and needs in FA where you usually have a better idea of what you are getting.
You use the draft to get your stars and studs.

Do you even look at my sims?
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Re: Your top 5 DL's in the draft

Post by mdb1958 »

mdb1958 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:43 am
Cheb wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:13 pm This is a bit of a tricky one. Most of the top guys are Edges, not interior players, and we are set at Edge with very little in the middle besides Vea and Nacho.

My objective top five is mostly edge guys, but the guys I would like on the Bucs are mostly interior defenders.
Not only that but when we lined up with 3 DL and 2 OLB's we got ate up. So quite often I was looking at 2 DL and 2 OLB - we need to figure that out. If we are looking for a great match doing the 2 and 2 with Vea I think we do need to look at DE/powerful Edges (all with quicks).

Of course we could end up with 3 in the middle that do present gifts to our OLB's.

It would be nice to run both options really well.

What's true in 2022 is still true in 2023.
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