Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

This section is for discussions involving the Buccaneers as a team, and other teams in the NFL.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Doctor »

If anyone can it'd be Lamar, no?
Image
User avatar
Selmon Rules
Posts: 2024
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:02 pm
Reputation: 559

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Selmon Rules »

I'm sure Philly wants to sign Hurts and I believe Hurts wants to stay there. They do still have to work out those numbers though, just like Jackson in Baltimore....

Not saying it won't happen but they still have to get it done
Image
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Doctor »

Yeah, after reading Jeffrey Laurie's recent comments I think so too. Everything until that point had been Howie Roseman talking about his Quarterback Factory. Which, if Hurts gets injured or slumps next year, would've really called a lot of things into question. But it looks like Laurie is going to press heavily to get Hurts extended while Howie may futilely push back with "but we don't have to just yet".
Image
Navybuc
Posts: 1730
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:35 am
Reputation: 356

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Navybuc »

Snake wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:48 pm
Navybuc wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:49 pm Rodgers is prolly going to Vegas. His odds to land there are -390. That’s almost as if the sports books know something.
I’m seeing +500 for Vegas. What are you talking about?
This one says -300 and it’s from today.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/new ... or-rodgers

This is the one I saw that said -390 but it’s a little more outdated.

https://www.covers.com/nfl/aaron-rodger ... -odds-2023
acmillis
Posts: 2753
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:47 pm
Reputation: 990

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by acmillis »

Bootz wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:26 pm
Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 2:49 pm I think you just pre-emptively moved the goal posts there.

I think I was very clear in my post. I even explicitly said fully guaranteed contracts

Do you seriously believe any of the QBs you mentioned are getting that?
There it is. No one is getting a fully guaranteed deal. The Deshaun Watson deal was a rare, inexplicable anomaly. Hurts, Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Jackson, none of them are getting a fully guaranteed deal.
Cousins has been getting fully guaranteed deals his entire time in MIN, ARods deal is fully guaranteed. Sure, it hasn't been the norm in the past, but my guess is if Lamar is not a Raven, his deal will be fully guaranteed, and once there's a pattern of that happening, ALL other QBs will not accept anything else, nor should they.
Navybuc
Posts: 1730
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:35 am
Reputation: 356

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Navybuc »

Snake wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:02 pm I’d rather be bad than pretend I can win a Super Bowl with Derek Carr or Daniel Jones.

(you know what I mean. It would take a fucking miracle on ice.)
I’d rather have Jones than Carr. Jones has some wheels. I think he’s more a product of having a terrible OL and no WRs to throw to. Carr had WRs in Oakland and still sucked. Give Jones good blockers in front of him and a pro bowl WR or two and he’d prolly be pretty solid. His best WR last year was some dude named Roger James Jr.
Last edited by Navybuc on Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Snake
Posts: 11414
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Snake »

Jones is a phenomenal physical talent. Especially linearly. Dude can run. I remember pointing that out when he was a prospect. Seemed like an underrated aspect of his game.
Image
User avatar
CantonJester
Posts: 617
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:55 am
Reputation: 153

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by CantonJester »

Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:54 pm If anyone can it'd be Lamar, no?
I'm sorry, but why's that? Bisciotti's not going to be played, and for all of Jackson's 'team first' stuff, he sure seemed to isolate himself by sitting at home during their playoff loss, and before the lockers were even empty, he was pining on Instagram for unrequited love.

The guy's a conundrum, and of the dozen or so Raven fans I work and hang out with, most just want the situation resolved one way or another, and I'd guess at least half of them would prefer the bounty he'd get in a trade.
User avatar
MJW
Posts: 4488
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:21 pm
Reputation: 2037

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by MJW »

Snake wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:05 pm Jones is a phenomenal physical talent. Especially linearly. Dude can run. I remember pointing that out when he was a prospect. Seemed like an underrated aspect of his game.
Jones's problem is he still has a ton of "Daniel Jones Moments." Bad fumbles, mind-boggling decisions, etc.

He's improved more than I ever thought he would. Credit to him, credit to the new coaching staff. But much like Jameis, I don't buy that he's ever going to make it through four playoff games without a "Daniel Jones Moment" killing his team in a close game.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
User avatar
MJW
Posts: 4488
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:21 pm
Reputation: 2037

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by MJW »

CantonJester wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:50 pm
Doctor wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 3:54 pm If anyone can it'd be Lamar, no?
I'm sorry, but why's that? Bisciotti's not going to be played, and for all of Jackson's 'team first' stuff, he sure seemed to isolate himself by sitting at home during their playoff loss, and before the lockers were even empty, he was pining on Instagram for unrequited love.

The guy's a conundrum, and of the dozen or so Raven fans I work and hang out with, most just want the situation resolved one way or another, and I'd guess at least half of them would prefer the bounty he'd get in a trade.
I honestly have no clue what I'd do if I were the Ravens.

On one hand, his an evolutionary talent, he's demonstrated literally MVP level play, he's still younger than several actual quarterbacks in this draft class, and there's no telling what he could do with an OC who wants to expand on his passing ability. Plus, quarterbacks who can take over games don't grow on trees.

On the other hand, his behavior lately has not been ideal according to some, he's injury prone and always will be, he's never come close to his MVP level again, it's still unknown if he CAN expand his passing ability, and it's almost certain that the hits he takes will end his prime and his career earlier than most, a la Cam Newton. A long-term deal could end up looking terrible by the end of his tenure.

Most likely, I'm taking calls. If someone wants to offer me what the Texans got for Watson, I probably agree.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
GreatTimes
Posts: 901
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:24 pm
Reputation: 205

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by GreatTimes »

MJW wrote "he's injury prone and always will be". How many running QB's were injured last year as opposed to typical pocket QB's? Lamar Jackson hurt and missed games. Hurts was hurt and missed games. Murray was hurt and missed games. Mahomes almost missed the SB because of an injury. Only Josh Allen of the running QB's didn't miss games.
Even the statue of QB's, Brady went uninjured with one of the worse O'lines in the NFL.
acmillis
Posts: 2753
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:47 pm
Reputation: 990

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by acmillis »

MJW wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:55 am
CantonJester wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:50 pm

I'm sorry, but why's that? Bisciotti's not going to be played, and for all of Jackson's 'team first' stuff, he sure seemed to isolate himself by sitting at home during their playoff loss, and before the lockers were even empty, he was pining on Instagram for unrequited love.

The guy's a conundrum, and of the dozen or so Raven fans I work and hang out with, most just want the situation resolved one way or another, and I'd guess at least half of them would prefer the bounty he'd get in a trade.
I honestly have no clue what I'd do if I were the Ravens.

On one hand, his an evolutionary talent, he's demonstrated literally MVP level play, he's still younger than several actual quarterbacks in this draft class, and there's no telling what he could do with an OC who wants to expand on his passing ability. Plus, quarterbacks who can take over games don't grow on trees.

On the other hand, his behavior lately has not been ideal according to some, he's injury prone and always will be, he's never come close to his MVP level again, it's still unknown if he CAN expand his passing ability, and it's almost certain that the hits he takes will end his prime and his career earlier than most, a la Cam Newton. A long-term deal could end up looking terrible by the end of his tenure.

Most likely, I'm taking calls. If someone wants to offer me what the Texans got for Watson, I probably agree.
This.

I agree, BAL is in a tough spot, but, in theory, you pay a player for what they're going to do, not what they've done. IMO, Lamar has plateaued, but I'm sure someone will be willing to give up multiple 1s to get him after I (BAL) franchise tag him.
BucsNBills
Posts: 2126
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:50 pm
Reputation: 536

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by BucsNBills »

If you're the Texans, do you make a call to the Ravens? They have two first round picks this year one of which is the 2nd overall selection. This obviously would be very attractive to the Ravens since they could instantly get a new QB prospect to replace Lamar.

Who wins the deal if say the Texans trade their pair of 1st rounders this year and make a 2nd in 2024?
acmillis
Posts: 2753
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:47 pm
Reputation: 990

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by acmillis »

BucsNBills wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:34 am If you're the Texans, do you make a call to the Ravens? They have two first round picks this year one of which is the 2nd overall selection. This obviously would be very attractive to the Ravens since they could instantly get a new QB prospect to replace Lamar.

Who wins the deal if say the Texans trade their pair of 1st rounders this year and make a 2nd in 2024?
That question can't be answered for 3+ years.
GreatTimes
Posts: 901
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:24 pm
Reputation: 205

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by GreatTimes »

BucsNBills wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:34 am If you're the Texans, do you make a call to the Ravens? They have two first round picks this year one of which is the 2nd overall selection. This obviously would be very attractive to the Ravens since they could instantly get a new QB prospect to replace Lamar.

Who wins the deal if say the Texans trade their pair of 1st rounders this year and make a 2nd in 2024?
I would say the Ravens get the best of the deal. Lamar is making huge salary demands that could inhibit the team he plays for to pay for other top players.
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Doctor »

MJW wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:55 am he's never come close to his MVP level again, it's still unknown if he CAN expand his passing ability, and it's almost certain that the hits he takes will end his prime and his career earlier than most, a la Cam Newton.
What are you talking about? He's looked every bit his MVP self many times since his MVP season- which was just THREE years ago. Sure, he hasn't been able to string those games together quite the way he did then but the Ravens as a team haven't been as good either. And again, you're talking about just three seasons.

In the three years between his MVPs Mahomes got 0, 2, and 0 MVP votes. Between Brady's last win in 2017 and his should've-won 2021 season, he got a total of zero votes. It's still a team sport.
Image
User avatar
Buc2
Posts: 8228
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:48 pm
Reputation: 2734
Location: Virginia

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Buc2 »

acmillis wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:44 am
BucsNBills wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:34 am If you're the Texans, do you make a call to the Ravens? They have two first round picks this year one of which is the 2nd overall selection. This obviously would be very attractive to the Ravens since they could instantly get a new QB prospect to replace Lamar.

Who wins the deal if say the Texans trade their pair of 1st rounders this year and make a 2nd in 2024?
That question can't be answered for 3+ years.
Yes. This is true. However, we can still project winners & losses in Year One. The final tally won't be known for 3+ years. In accounting, we call that truing up.
Image
Don't tread on me
Snake
Posts: 11414
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Reputation: 3007

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Snake »

Image
Digital_Damage
Posts: 1094
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:33 pm
Reputation: 1005

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Digital_Damage »

Doctor wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:49 am
MJW wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:55 am he's never come close to his MVP level again, it's still unknown if he CAN expand his passing ability, and it's almost certain that the hits he takes will end his prime and his career earlier than most, a la Cam Newton.
What are you talking about? He's looked every bit his MVP self many times since his MVP season- which was just THREE years ago. Sure, he hasn't been able to string those games together quite the way he did then but the Ravens as a team haven't been as good either. And again, you're talking about just three seasons.

In the three years between his MVPs Mahomes got 0, 2, and 0 MVP votes. Between Brady's last win in 2017 and his should've-won 2021 season, he got a total of zero votes. It's still a team sport.
What are you talking about? He has not played a full season since. 2020... He is who he is, not a very good quarterback.
Image
User avatar
MJW
Posts: 4488
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:21 pm
Reputation: 2037

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by MJW »

Doctor wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:49 am
MJW wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:55 am he's never come close to his MVP level again, it's still unknown if he CAN expand his passing ability, and it's almost certain that the hits he takes will end his prime and his career earlier than most, a la Cam Newton.
What are you talking about? He's looked every bit his MVP self many times since his MVP season- which was just THREE years ago. Sure, he hasn't been able to string those games together quite the way he did then but the Ravens as a team haven't been as good either. And again, you're talking about just three seasons.

In the three years between his MVPs Mahomes got 0, 2, and 0 MVP votes. Between Brady's last win in 2017 and his should've-won 2021 season, he got a total of zero votes. It's still a team sport.
I mean...this isn't advanced math.

MVP Season: 66.1% Completed
Since: 63.8% Completed

MVP Season: 4333 Total Yards
Since: 3472 Total Yards (Averaged/Season)

MVP Season: 43 Total TDs
Since: 24 Total TDs (Averaged/Season)

MVP Season: 15 Turnovers
Since: 17 Turnovers (Averaged/Season)

MVP Season: 7.8 YPA, 6.9 YPC
Since: 7.2 YPA, 6.1 YPA

MVP Season: 113.3 QB Rating, 83 QBR
Since: 92 QB Rating, 59 QBR


There is no statistical metric where he's improved or even maintained the level of production he set in 2019. Expecting him to reach it again is more a matter of hope than of evidence.
"So let's get to the point
Let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go..."
User avatar
Doctor
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:02 pm
Reputation: 1087

Re: Derek Carr - and league wide QB situation

Post by Doctor »

Team.
Sport.


MJW, this has to be the most insincere arguement you've ever made. We do this with players all the time. Stafford, Geno, Jacobs. Brady had it done to him a couple times.

Change of team or teammates, boom.
You're acting like the Ravens are the best situation in the NFL. In fact, it could be said to be one of the worst.
Image
Post Reply