From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

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Digital_Damage
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From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Digital_Damage »

Things are not always as cut and dry like a win %. There have been situations where coaches have accomplished more with less and there have been some that have won in spite of their players.

Place the list of coaches from worst to first on their effectiveness.

The list:
1 John McKay
2 Leeman Bennett
3 Ray Perkins
4 Richard Williamson
5 Sam Wyche
6 Tony Dungy
7 Jon Gruden
8 Raheem Morris
9 Greg Schiano
10 Lovie Smith
11 Dirk Koetter
12 Bruce Arians
13 Todd Bowles

My List:
Leeman Bennett
Richard Williamson
Todd Bowles
Sam Wyche
Lovie Smith
Dirk Koetter
Ray Perkins
Bruce Arians
Jon Gruden
Greg Schiano
Raheem Morris
John McKay
Tony Dungy


Come at me Bro!
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King Bootz
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by King Bootz »

Raheem Morris & Greg Schiano above Bruce Arians & Jon Gruden.

Digital_Dumbass strikes again.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Snake »

I’ve read this five times and I still don’t know what I’m looking at.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by King Bootz »

Snake wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:23 pm I’ve read this five times and I still don’t know what I’m looking at.
The idiot ranked the coaches from worst coach to best coach and instead of doing it like a normal person, 1 being the best, 13 being the worst he did it the opposite way.

Like if I said top 5 QBs of all time, he would've done it like this.


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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Snake »

King Bootz wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:15 pm Raheem Morris & Greg Schiano above Bruce Arians & Jon Gruden.
Yeah this is, something.. Of course Arians and Gruden had more to work with. But Schiano was a documented disaster. Raheem? Meh. The one good season they had was smoke and mirrors.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Selmon Rules »

Digital_Damage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:39 pm Things are not always as cut and dry like a win %. There have been situations where coaches have accomplished more with less and there have been some that have won in spite of their players.

Place the list of coaches from worst to first on their effectiveness.

The list:
1 John McKay
2 Leeman Bennett
3 Ray Perkins
4 Richard Williamson
5 Sam Wyche
6 Tony Dungy
7 Jon Gruden
8 Raheem Morris
9 Greg Schiano
10 Lovie Smith
11 Dirk Koetter
12 Bruce Arians
13 Todd Bowles

My List:
Leeman Bennett
Richard Williamson
Todd Bowles
Sam Wyche
Lovie Smith
Dirk Koetter
Ray Perkins
Bruce Arians
Jon Gruden
Greg Schiano
Raheem Morris
John McKay
Tony Dungy


Come at me Bro!
To be fair to John McKay, he had zero to work with when he got here. The expansion draft was made up of absolute garbage and he built that team literally from the ground up....

I know Dungy is revered among Bucs fans but I'd have to put McKay above him

Don't know why Raheem Morris or Greg Schiano would be above Arians and Gruden
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Digital_Damage
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Digital_Damage »

Selmon Rules wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:43 pm
Digital_Damage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:39 pm Things are not always as cut and dry like a win %. There have been situations where coaches have accomplished more with less and there have been some that have won in spite of their players.

Place the list of coaches from worst to first on their effectiveness.

The list:
1 John McKay
2 Leeman Bennett
3 Ray Perkins
4 Richard Williamson
5 Sam Wyche
6 Tony Dungy
7 Jon Gruden
8 Raheem Morris
9 Greg Schiano
10 Lovie Smith
11 Dirk Koetter
12 Bruce Arians
13 Todd Bowles

My List:
Leeman Bennett
Richard Williamson
Todd Bowles
Sam Wyche
Lovie Smith
Dirk Koetter
Ray Perkins
Bruce Arians
Jon Gruden
Greg Schiano
Raheem Morris
John McKay
Tony Dungy


Come at me Bro!
To be fair to John McKay, he had zero to work with when he got here. The expansion draft was made up of absolute garbage and he built that team literally from the ground up....

I know Dungy is revered among Bucs fans but I'd have to put McKay above him

Don't know why Raheem Morris or Greg Schiano would be above Arians and Gruden
Morris and Schiano had teams with significantly less talent than Gruden and Arians. Morris was a lame duck coach but turned in a winning season. Schiano was given a box of rocks (except for Jackson and McCoy) had 11 players on IR in 2012. We have had a looooooot of bad coaching performances despite the rosters.

Arians... one of the best rosters we have ever had.
Gruden... handed one of the best rosters of all time.

They were both expected to win Superbowl's, I still contend the team that Arians had won despite some shitty coaching.

Was a hard choice between McKay VS Dungy. McKay got 9 years, started from nothing and turned in 3 births.

The 95 Bucs were terrible but did draft what would become the core, 96 was rough but 97 was the turning point and that was his doing. 4 Births and one coach of the year pushed him over the top for me.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Central_Buc »

Digital_Damage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:31 pm
Selmon Rules wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:43 pm

To be fair to John McKay, he had zero to work with when he got here. The expansion draft was made up of absolute garbage and he built that team literally from the ground up....

I know Dungy is revered among Bucs fans but I'd have to put McKay above him

Don't know why Raheem Morris or Greg Schiano would be above Arians and Gruden
The 95 Bucs were terrible but did draft what would become the core, 96 was rough but 97 was the turning point and that was his doing. 4 Births and one coach of the year pushed him over the top for me.
Wyche was the coach in 95, maybe he should get credit in bringing in Sapp Brooks and Lynch.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Rocker »

Cringe car alert.

I.... I Just can't.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Backside »

Digital_Damage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:31 pm
Morris and Schiano had teams with significantly less talent than Gruden and Arians.
And did significantly less with them. I don’t understand this benefit of the doubt you are giving coaches with bad rosters. How about speaking to their coaching acumen or how you liked what they did despite having less to work with? I don’t understand your criteria at all.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Digital_Damage »

Central_Buc wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:29 pm
Digital_Damage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:31 pm
The 95 Bucs were terrible but did draft what would become the core, 96 was rough but 97 was the turning point and that was his doing. 4 Births and one coach of the year pushed him over the top for me.
Wyche was the coach in 95, maybe he should get credit in bringing in Sapp Brooks and Lynch.
He was... and the 95 team underperformed despite that great draft. When Dungy took over in 96 he was given an underperforming team and turn them around during his tenure.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Digital_Damage »

Backside wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:30 am
Digital_Damage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:31 pm
Morris and Schiano had teams with significantly less talent than Gruden and Arians.
And did significantly less with them. I don’t understand this benefit of the doubt you are giving coaches with bad rosters. How about speaking to their coaching acumen or how you liked what they did despite having less to work with? I don’t understand your criteria at all.
Did they really do less with them? Those were bad rosters. However, under Morris (at least for a season) he over performed.

The criteria is as simple as it gets, given the composition of the roster. Did they succeed despite that roster or were they given a roster with talent to spare and did not meet expectation?

We talk about it all the time on here.

"Gruden won with Dungy's team." ETC...
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by 13F11B »

Ranked worst to best:
Leeman Bennett -- I do my best to forget these years.
Richard Williamson -- I do my best to forget these years.
Todd Bowles -- Failure as a HC IMHO. I don't even like his defenses TBO.
Lovie Smith -- So many decisions he made looked like crap that I thought about putting him below Bowles
Dirk Koetter -- Seemed over his skis with a HC gig. Good OC though.
Ray Perkins -- Marginal coach with a marginal team.
Raheem Morris -- I would like to see him get another change at being a HC. I think he was forced into taking a HC job before he was ready. You do not rush a good BBQ and Raheem was rushed. Owners were stupid on this one.
Greg Schiano -- handed a crap team and had a college mentality. I think the man is a good coach but he needed to learn NOT to treat professionals like 3 year pass through players
Bruce Arians -- managed to cobble together a team to work with Brady, but loyalty to his guys (coaches) and health caused him issues.
Sam Wyche -- Brilliant coach with an oversized ego that made him do stupid shit
Tony Dungy -- rebuilt a broken team, but he benifited from Wyche's personnel
Jon Gruden -- Super Bowl win was Dungy's team, but Gruden's coaching. He also faced some lean years and kept the team respectable
John McKay -- did the most with the least.

Going through this list makes me relize just how much suffering this team has inflicted on me. I am thinking I need to file a law suit for pain and suffering. How much is the team worth?
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by GoldenBudda »

I could break this list into 3 categories. The good, the bad and the ugly.

The good:
Bruce Arians
Jon Gruden
Tony Dungy
Rich McKay

Bruce and Jon won Superbowls. Dungy showed us what good coaching can do with a talented young team.

The bad:
Ray Perkins
Greg Schiano
Raheem Morris
Sam Wyche
Dirk Koetter

Wyche built a great offense. We got him after defenses figured him out and he didnt adapt. Thumbs up if you sat in the stands like I did and mocked his finger twirlvsignal. Koetter brought us a good offensive scheme. The rest of these guys were in way over their heads.

The ugly:
Leeman Bennett
Richard Williamson
Lovie Smith
Todd Bowles

This is the trash pile. Absolutely garbage head coaches that had no idea what they're doing. None of these coaches had anywhere near the talent Todd Bowles has on this roster.

Bowles takes the prize as worst head coach in franchise history. He admitted he didnt want to call timeout with 2 timeouts, :30 on the clock and Tom Fucking Brady at QB just in case he threw an INT.

We went from no risk it, no biscuit, to no guts, no glory thanks to our gutless POS HC. Coaches that play not to lose are losers. Get him outta here !!!!
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by wesmon »

Wyche is way underrated, I think the turnaround started with him.

Schiano and Morris are way too high.

What made me laugh looking at the list though, is I totally forgot about Koetter. Just a forgettable man.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by 13F11B »

GoldenBudda wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:40 am I could break this list into 3 categories. The good, the bad and the ugly.

The good:
Bruce Arians
Jon Gruden
Tony Dungy
Rich McKay
All credibility was lost at this point. Rich McKay? Really? You do know that Rich McKay was NEVER a coach of the Buccaneers, right?
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by mdb1958 »

John Harvey
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by GoldenBudda »

13F11B wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:05 am
GoldenBudda wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:40 am I could break this list into 3 categories. The good, the bad and the ugly.

The good:
Bruce Arians
Jon Gruden
Tony Dungy
Rich McKay
All credibility was lost at this point. Rich McKay? Really? You do know that Rich McKay was NEVER a coach of the Buccaneers, right?
Obviously meant John McKay not Rich McKay. LOL
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Digital_Damage »

13F11B wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:03 am Ranked worst to best:
Leeman Bennett -- I do my best to forget these years.
Richard Williamson -- I do my best to forget these years.
Todd Bowles -- Failure as a HC IMHO. I don't even like his defenses TBO.
Lovie Smith -- So many decisions he made looked like crap that I thought about putting him below Bowles
Dirk Koetter -- Seemed over his skis with a HC gig. Good OC though.
Ray Perkins -- Marginal coach with a marginal team.
Raheem Morris -- I would like to see him get another change at being a HC. I think he was forced into taking a HC job before he was ready. You do not rush a good BBQ and Raheem was rushed. Owners were stupid on this one.
Greg Schiano -- handed a crap team and had a college mentality. I think the man is a good coach but he needed to learn NOT to treat professionals like 3 year pass through players
Bruce Arians -- managed to cobble together a team to work with Brady, but loyalty to his guys (coaches) and health caused him issues.
Sam Wyche -- Brilliant coach with an oversized ego that made him do stupid shit
Tony Dungy -- rebuilt a broken team, but he benifited from Wyche's personnel
Jon Gruden -- Super Bowl win was Dungy's team, but Gruden's coaching. He also faced some lean years and kept the team respectable
John McKay -- did the most with the least.

Going through this list makes me relize just how much suffering this team has inflicted on me. I am thinking I need to file a law suit for pain and suffering. How much is the team worth?
Came to the same realization creating my list. Lots of Pain, few bright spots.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Moozician »

1. Williamson
2. Bennett
3. Perkins
4. Smith
5. Schiano
6. Morris
7. Bowles
8. Koetter
9. Wyche
10. Gruden
11. McKay
12. Arians
13. Dungy

Now, I don't remember a lot about Williamson, Perkins, or Bennett other than they sucked on ice.

Bowles may continue to drop down... The thing I like about Arians was his ability to accept responsibility, while NOT just spouting out the party line "We need to execute better" We still had a winner's attitude, and win or lose, everyone was proud of this team. Same as the Dungy era.

Now, we would rather drop to the fetal position, thumb in mouth, and BRING ON Overtime!

This team's attitude has turned to crap, and it starts from the top. We're losers and laughing stocks again.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by 13F11B »

Digital_Damage wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:33 pm
13F11B wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:03 am Ranked worst to best:
Leeman Bennett -- I do my best to forget these years.
Richard Williamson -- I do my best to forget these years.
Todd Bowles -- Failure as a HC IMHO. I don't even like his defenses TBO.
Lovie Smith -- So many decisions he made looked like crap that I thought about putting him below Bowles
Dirk Koetter -- Seemed over his skis with a HC gig. Good OC though.
Ray Perkins -- Marginal coach with a marginal team.
Raheem Morris -- I would like to see him get another change at being a HC. I think he was forced into taking a HC job before he was ready. You do not rush a good BBQ and Raheem was rushed. Owners were stupid on this one.
Greg Schiano -- handed a crap team and had a college mentality. I think the man is a good coach but he needed to learn NOT to treat professionals like 3 year pass through players
Bruce Arians -- managed to cobble together a team to work with Brady, but loyalty to his guys (coaches) and health caused him issues.
Sam Wyche -- Brilliant coach with an oversized ego that made him do stupid shit
Tony Dungy -- rebuilt a broken team, but he benifited from Wyche's personnel
Jon Gruden -- Super Bowl win was Dungy's team, but Gruden's coaching. He also faced some lean years and kept the team respectable
John McKay -- did the most with the least.

Going through this list makes me relize just how much suffering this team has inflicted on me. I am thinking I need to file a law suit for pain and suffering. How much is the team worth?
Came to the same realization creating my list. Lots of Pain, few bright spots.
Hell, upon further reflection, I bet all of you dicks were really nice people before you started following this team. Now, due to the emotional damage, the team has inflicted you are all a bunch of angry dickheads. :-)
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Digital_Damage »

13F11B wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:35 pm
Digital_Damage wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:33 pm

Came to the same realization creating my list. Lots of Pain, few bright spots.
Hell, upon further reflection, I bet all of you dicks were really nice people before you started following this team. Now, due to the emotional damage, the team has inflicted you are all a bunch of angry dickheads. :-)
What else are we going to do but bitch at each other? Watch the trainwreck?
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Big Irv »

A lot of prisoner of the moment going on here.

Bowels is not even finished with his first year. He will likely have the rest of this season and next season.

I’m not a huge fan of Bowles the HC. Including him anywhere on this list at this point is too soon. Let’s let him fail before we crown him a failure.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Terry Tate »

Big Irv wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:23 pm A lot of prisoner of the moment going on here.

Bowels is not even finished with his first year. He will likely have the rest of this season and next season.

I’m not a huge fan of Bowles the HC. Including him anywhere on this list at this point is too soon. Let’s let him fail before we crown him a failure.
I agree. And I agree with Nobody's thread offering some defense to him. He's made some boneheaded game time decisions but in general he's a defensive coach who has fielded a pretty solid defense.

The killer is the offense and we don't know the details of how he and Lefty got the job. If he had no choice but to be part of a package hire, than I can't blame him. If he is drinking the Lefty Kool-Aid like Arians apparently is, then he IS that stupid.

As of right now, he has similar vibe to Dungy. A stoic faced defensive coach who has a great defense but is utterly inept on offense. Dungy couldn't build an offense and it eventually got him run out of town. If he hadn't landed in town with Peyton Manning, he'd have never won a title.

Wyche is underrated a bit. He didn't win but he laid a lot of the groundwork for Dungy. Those who say he didn't win with that epic draft class seem to forget that most great players don't play like hall of famers as rookies, especially not in that era. Then again, we don't know how much say he had over the roster. We don't know how much say over the big board and we don't know if he's the guy who brought in Hardy.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by mdb1958 »

Byron's biscuits and Arian's biscuits are not the same.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by mdb1958 »

Big Irv wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:23 pm A lot of prisoner of the moment going on here.

Bowels is not even finished with his first year. He will likely have the rest of this season and next season.

I’m not a huge fan of Bowles the HC. Including him anywhere on this list at this point is too soon. Let’s let him fail before we crown him a failure.


Spell it right and wrong all in the same post?
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Big Irv »

mdb1958 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:23 pm
Big Irv wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:23 pm A lot of prisoner of the moment going on here.

Bowels is not even finished with his first year. He will likely have the rest of this season and next season.

I’m not a huge fan of Bowles the HC. Including him anywhere on this list at this point is too soon. Let’s let him fail before we crown him a failure.

Spell it right and wrong all in the same post?
Sorry, I had Taco Bell last night, so I’ve got Bowels on my mind.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Backside »

Digital_Damage wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:48 am
Backside wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:30 am

And did significantly less with them. I don’t understand this benefit of the doubt you are giving coaches with bad rosters. How about speaking to their coaching acumen or how you liked what they did despite having less to work with? I don’t understand your criteria at all.
Did they really do less with them? Those were bad rosters. However, under Morris (at least for a season) he over performed.
Did the teams who were terrible and didn’t sniff the playoffs do less than the Super Bowl winning teams?

Yes. Yes they did.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by 13F11B »

Big Irv wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:23 pm A lot of prisoner of the moment going on here.

Bowels is not even finished with his first year. He will likely have the rest of this season and next season.

I’m not a huge fan of Bowles the HC. Including him anywhere on this list at this point is too soon. Let’s let him fail before we crown him a failure.
I fully believe the Glazers will compound the mistake of hiring Bowles by keeping him. They will lack the intestinal fortitude to purge the team of their mistake. Given the way they fired Gruden and Dungy that makes sense.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by GoldenBudda »

If the Glazers end up keeping Bowles and Lefty next year we'd have a legit shot at the #1 overall pick in 2024.

It would not surprise me to see that happen. We will get the high draft pick and eveyone will be happy to see Bowles go away after confirmation that he sucks as a head coach is confirmed.

We're heading for a rebuild, so bringing in a good coach and winning 6-7 games with a depleted roster isn't really a great option.

We would have a mid-first round pick and a good coach will already be on the fans hot seat.

Giving Bowles one more year makes sense. Even though I would hate it.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by King Bootz »

I love the pearl clutching drama queens. Somehow if we keep the same coaching staff that's currently leading the division, we'll somehow become worse than the other 3 trash teams in our division if they keep their same HCs and have a better chance at the #1 pick than they have. Zero logic involved in that thought process, but the drama shines bright nonetheless.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Snake »

Losing the best player of all time and replacing him with Kyle Trask has a way of making teams worse. I’m sure that’s part of the equation.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by King Bootz »

Snake wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:03 am Losing the best player of all time and replacing him with Kyle Trask has a way of making teams worse. I’m sure that’s part of the equation.
So we're assuming Trask is handed the keys?
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by Snake »

King Bootz wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:06 am
Snake wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:03 am Losing the best player of all time and replacing him with Kyle Trask has a way of making teams worse. I’m sure that’s part of the equation.
So we're assuming Trask is handed the keys?
Let’s pray that’s not actually the case.
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Re: From Worst to First - Buccaneers Head Coaches

Post by mdb1958 »

For 25 years I've always wondered why people like sorry threads.
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